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Nanu's Grand Trial! The Awakening of Lycanroc! (1020)

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Wow it frankly seems to me that it would be a bit annoying to have vocals playing. Do they ever do it when there are other actual vocals being said in-universe so that words from the song and spoken words are overlapping?

They're usually played when the characters aren't talking.
 

Lord Starfish

Fond of owls
Wow it frankly seems to me that it would be a bit annoying to have vocals playing. Do they ever do it when there are other actual vocals being said in-universe so that words from the song and spoken words are overlapping?
If there's dialogue happening at the same time as the singing, the song is typically turned down to the point where the dialogue significantly overpowers the song. But yeah, mostly if there is a song playing, there'll be little to no dialogue. I think by far the most popular instance of this in recent years would be the end of the Greninja VS Sceptile match in the Kalos League, which had the XY&Z opening theme playing, purely instrumental for most of it, only for the chorus to kick in just as both sides were preparing to launch their final attacks. While I did feel throughout XY&Z that that song was used as a battle theme a few too many times, that scene in particular is one of my favorite moments in the entire anime, and it's honestly mostly down to just how well the song matched up with the scene.

EDIT: Oh, but I do seem to recall there being at least one case of the dub playing the opening theme during an episode too. Didn't 4Kids play the full version of the theme-song during the opening ceremony for the League back in the very first series? So it's not like stuff like this is unheard of in the dub, even though it's far more prominent in the Japanese version.
 
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LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
EDIT: Oh, but I do seem to recall there being at least one case of the dub playing the opening theme during an episode too. Didn't 4Kids play the full version of the theme-song during the opening ceremony for the League back in the very first series? So it's not like stuff like this is unheard of in the dub, even though it's far more prominent in the Japanese version.
Gotcha, I'm not sure that I remember that.
 

Ryu Taylor

Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
This is the same show where a floating shrimp is able to use Heal Pulse on itself. Maybe it doesn’t excuse the whole Mean Look thing but they have never fully cared about following game logic.
Well, except for the four-move limit, the one rule the show never should've followed.

Litten's capture episode for instance had a custom insert song in Japanese about how Litten slowly cheers back up due to the smiles it receives from others around it (implied to be Ash and his pokémon). Dubs often don't adopt insert songs, I don't think pokémon ever does.
There is no possible way you're talking about Meowth's Ballad.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Ironically the image songs I know the dub DID use were all Meowth tunes, Meowth's Song, Polka O Dolka and Team Rocket Forever (though truncated and with heavy liberties on the lyrics in all three cases). Otherwise the nearest they got was the off key rip off of Roaring All Stars in the last Pikachu short or using some instrumentals like Team Rocket's XYZ theme.

I heard TPCi originally planned to translate more of the image songs, given all three were from the 4Kids era, that didn't go very far. :p
 
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Ryu Taylor

Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
off key rip off of Roaring All Stars in the last Pikachu short
"Join the Band" wasn't just "Roaring All-Stars" in English??? Or do you mean the melody in the short itself that all the Pokemon were singing to?

And by the way, as someone with Perfect Pitch, I can verify that the ending song Join the Band was on-key (because Haven Paschall is awesome). Perhaps not on the key of the JP song, but still.

Wow it frankly seems to me that it would be a bit annoying to have vocals playing. Do they ever do it when there are other actual vocals being said in-universe so that words from the song and spoken words are overlapping?
They're usually played when the characters aren't talking.
I like it better that way, actually. I'm not against the use of Insert Songs, but I gravitate more toward instrumental music. Like those, I prefer Insert Songs be used in a way that makes sense.
 
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DatsRight

Well-Known Member
"Join the Band" wasn't just "Roaring All-Stars" in English??? Or do you mean the melody in the short itself that all the Pokemon were singing to?

And by the way, as someone with Perfect Pitch, I can verify that the ending song Join the Band was on-key (because Haven Paschall is awesome). Perhaps not on the key of the JP song, but still.

Off key as in it diverges from the original JUST enough to be a separate song but still make it obvious it's a rip off. The chorus is slightly different and the bridge is completely different, and the instrumentation is blatantly a different one. Performed well or not, it's no more the actual song than the hundred billion copyright friendly parodies of 'I Will Survive' or Rocky's theme that are heard in cartoons.

This also has affect on the reference because to unknowing English viewers, it makes it seem like the Pokemon are singing the song out of tune in the short itself.

The three I mentioned were direct translations as in they used the exact same instrumental track and sung over it in English (only being Team Rocket, it's characteristically and deliberately out of tune).
 
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dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Okay first of all I never agreed with Torracat evolving against Nanu, my reasoning because it was too soon, with Torracat having done absolutely very little

That being said I do fully agree having an absolute problem with Ash receiving Lycanium-Z when the previous Z-crystal he actually received was Rockium-Z, so maybe I suggested someone else getting a Z-crystal even possibly Torracat, I actually don't know.

Oh an also:
All 3 times that's happened were in BW, and the only time Ash got a free Berry in the middle of a gym battle was also in BW, so even if this is a better copout, it's only better than BW, not anything else, despite the fact that @dman_dustin wanted Frogadier to evolve against Olympia for some reason and went on a massive rant in that episode's thread (XY93).

WHICH wouldn't have been a problem if we didn't get the Ash-Greninja poster, Olympia shoving Greninja down our throat. ASH-GRENINJA being shoved on screen in the damn preview for that episode, and we didn't have to have to wait an additional 7 episodes only for it to evolve in an episode that was littered with Greninja, 7 episodes might not be that long in retrospect, it was hell, back then at the time, with Greninja having been confirmed for nearly 7 months or whatever, as I think it was September that revealed Zygarde Dog/Zygarde Complete and Ash-Greninja, I think.

I wouldn't have been as insufferable during that time.
 

Vipsoccermaster

Well-Known Member
Good episode. Three-on-One may seem unfair to Ash, but rules are rules. Good for Ash to think of strategies to win three times in a row. Nanu distracting Ash into letting his guard down about Lycanroc, lol. But Ash came to his senses after being tackled. Great seeing Lycanroc learning Counter and then Ash winning the third grand trial and win the Lycanium Z. A Dark Z-Crystal wouldn't make sense for Ash, really. The Pokémon Company would not let the main protagonist become dark for the rest of time. If temporary, they can, for if the plot makes sense, like that one episode before the real battle with Brandon, but that was due to Ash being possessed by an evil spirit.
 

mehmeh1

I can do anything
Good episode. Three-on-One may seem unfair to Ash, but rules are rules. Good for Ash to think of strategies to win three times in a row. Nanu distracting Ash into letting his guard down about Lycanroc, lol. But Ash came to his senses after being tackled. Great seeing Lycanroc learning Counter and then Ash winning the third grand trial and win the Lycanium Z. A Dark Z-Crystal wouldn't make sense for Ash, really. The Pokémon Company would not let the main protagonist become dark for the rest of time. If temporary, they can, for if the plot makes sense, like that one episode before the real battle with Brandon, but that was due to Ash being possessed by an evil spirit.
stupidly forgetting his own pokemon's move he just learned recently and not noticing he had a power up without rage aren't strategies (I will give him using CC on BHE at the end, that was dope)
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
Good episode. Three-on-One may seem unfair to Ash, but rules are rules. Good for Ash to think of strategies to win three times in a row. Nanu distracting Ash into letting his guard down about Lycanroc, lol. But Ash came to his senses after being tackled. Great seeing Lycanroc learning Counter and then Ash winning the third grand trial and win the Lycanium Z. A Dark Z-Crystal wouldn't make sense for Ash, really. The Pokémon Company would not let the main protagonist become dark for the rest of time. If temporary, they can, for if the plot makes sense, like that one episode before the real battle with Brandon, but that was due to Ash being possessed by an evil spirit.
Actually, Ash could have used a Darkium Z with a potential future Incineroar, and furthermore, Ash had had Dark-type aces the last 2 gens in a row.
 

AuraChannelerChris

"Tis an honor to be recognized."
This was such an awkwardly made battle.

The mere fact Nanu forces Ash to fight on a 3-on-1 is just weird. At first I thought Sunny D-roc would go through it all in one go, but the meaning is lost when Tapu Bulu just...gives him a Sitrus Berry before the final bout. So, wait, can trainers really use items before or during a match? The rules aren't just explained in full in the anime.

Either Sunny D-roc has a lot of strength, or Nanu's team is made up of frail mons. I swear Sunny D-roc is starting to become the Alolan ace for Ash.

Nanu apparently acted "like a Dark-type trainer would," but, that's subjective, because we haven't seen Dark-type only trainers act like that. In fact, I'd say he acted TOO much into his role, so much that he takes the "Brilliant but Lazy" trope to an extreme with the "brilliant" part.

Nanu: Here's a Darkinium Z...but you're not suited for it.

Ash: B-But I had a Greninj-

Nanu: That's soooooo 2013. Here, have a Z-Crystal that I so conveniently happen to have for your unique dog.

anime!Nanu isn't as interesting as game!Nanu is. anime!Nanu puts more effort into his stuff and smiles way more often than the precious moments game!Nanu has (then again, anime!Cyrus had a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay sunnier disposition than game!Cyrus, which makes me believe the anime staff doesn't do well around stoic characters).

Can't wait to see how they represent Hapu. Given she's a girl, I'm so expecting a Hapu arc ala Korrina arc.
 

mehmeh1

I can do anything
This was such an awkwardly made battle.

The mere fact Nanu forces Ash to fight on a 3-on-1 is just weird. At first I thought Sunny D-roc would go through it all in one go, but the meaning is lost when Tapu Bulu just...gives him a Sitrus Berry before the final bout. So, wait, can trainers really use items before or during a match? The rules aren't just explained in full in the anime.

Either Sunny D-roc has a lot of strength, or Nanu's team is made up of frail mons. I swear Sunny D-roc is starting to become the Alolan ace for Ash.

Nanu apparently acted "like a Dark-type trainer would," but, that's subjective, because we haven't seen Dark-type only trainers act like that. In fact, I'd say he acted TOO much into his role, so much that he takes the "Brilliant but Lazy" trope to an extreme with the "brilliant" part.

Nanu: Here's a Darkinium Z...but you're not suited for it.

Ash: B-But I had a Greninj-

Nanu: That's soooooo 2013. Here, have a Z-Crystal that I so conveniently happen to have for your unique dog.

anime!Nanu isn't as interesting as game!Nanu is. anime!Nanu puts more effort into his stuff and smiles way more often than the precious moments game!Nanu has (then again, anime!Cyrus had a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay sunnier disposition than game!Cyrus, which makes me believe the anime staff doesn't do well around stoic characters).

Can't wait to see how they represent Hapu. Given she's a girl, I'm so expecting a Hapu arc ala Korrina arc.
to be fair, greninja didn't even have any dark type moves, krookodile lost his only dark type move, and I don't think scraggy had any by the end of bw either
 

AuraChannelerChris

"Tis an honor to be recognized."
to be fair, greninja didn't even have any dark type moves, krookodile lost his only dark type move, and I don't think scraggy had any by the end of bw either
...

Whatever a Pokemon Master is, Ash ain't sure becoming one.
 

Lord Starfish

Fond of owls
The mere fact Nanu forces Ash to fight on a 3-on-1 is just weird. At first I thought Sunny D-roc would go through it all in one go, but the meaning is lost when Tapu Bulu just...gives him a Sitrus Berry before the final bout. So, wait, can trainers really use items before or during a match? The rules aren't just explained in full in the anime.
To be fair, this part was actually acknowledged in the episode, with him basically going "Well, I can't really tell the guardian of the island what it can or can't do, can I? Sheesh, what's that thing think a Grand Trial is?" Implying that, indeed, item use in battles is not supposed to be allowed. He just had to let it slide because of where the item in question came from.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan

Lord Starfish

Fond of owls
Then what on earth happened in the Roxie battle!!
Not a clue, as I have seen maybe an episode and a half total of BW, but I would not really apply the standards of BW to Sun & Moon. While they are technically still part of the same story, it's clear that each new generation does its own thing.

...Gym battles and Grand Trials aren't necessarily the same thing anyway, even if they serve the same purpose in the plot.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
Not a clue, as I have seen maybe an episode and a half total of BW, but I would not really apply the standards of BW to Sun & Moon. While they are technically still part of the same story, it's clear that each new generation does its own thing.

...Gym battles and Grand Trials aren't necessarily the same thing anyway, even if they serve the same purpose in the plot.
you said battles not grand trials
 

mehmeh1

I can do anything
We haven't seen a Dark-type only trainer PERIOD in the anime before this moment.



Then what on earth happened in the Roxie battle!!
an atrocity (ok, not THAT bad, but still, it wasn't worthy of being ash's final gym battle in unova)
 
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