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Naruto and Boruto Discussion Thread

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
If we're saying it's cheap, then I put it on the same level as Hinata's Twin Lion Fist, a jutsu we've never seen her train for, that seemed quite cheap to me. And once again, you're wrong. When Pain destroyed the village, Sakura screamed for Naruto to come, read what happens in chapter 429, there you'll find your answer. And it's because she said this before she activated the Seal "It's almost done. I've almost stored the necessary chakra." So, it's a charging jutsu, for all we know it couldn't have been released at anytime, Sakura's wrapped around plot as well. Once again, I'm not making you try to like Sakura or accept her. You seem to get your kicks out of going after her most of the time.

The only character I get my kicks out of going after is Madara. Sometimes Sasuke, but mostly Madara. Everyone in this fourm probably knows I have it out for Madara. But as much as I dislike him I'll give him credit where it's due like him being the only threat to Naruto and Sasuke.

Anyway enough about that. I took your advice and reread chapter 429. I know how the Mitotic Regeneration works. What I am complaining about is we had no idea Sakura could use it until she actually used it. Unlike Hinata, Sakura is a main character. Unlike Hinata, Sakura actually had a fight before the Pain arc where you could have mentioned she had a trump card. Or if you want to pull that charging adapter stuff, have her mention that she has a jutsu that she's charging up. Kishis took this jutsu and tried to pass it off to Sakura, who has been a supporting shinobi up to this point, and tried to put her on the same view as Naruto and Sasuke. And I'm saying it was done poorly and comes out of nowhere, when Naruto and Sasuke have been fighting powerful enemies and Sakura has not.

I know it seems like I'm picking on Sakura. I suppose I am in this. I don't even know why we're on Sakura, I was originally talking about how useless Karin became after rejoining Sasuke. I like Sakura, but I'm not going to praise her for BS powerups when I called out other characters like Sasuke and even Naruto for the same thing.
 

Kamex

Team Rocket's rockin
Not to push the issue but...

Omg. Why did this argument turned into a Sakura vs Naruto now?? I wouldn't dare to compare anyone to Naruto's development. He's the strongest and the most developed character in Naruto and nobody can argue that. The show is called Naruto after all. My point is that She is just a normal girl, who has grown so much. And one of the main points of her character is being powerful without being born into a powerful clan or have any special abilities of her own. She didn't need that to be all that she can be. She killed an akatsuki and punched Kaguya WITHOUTany haxed powers. Unlike Naruto and Sasuke whom had to rely on their natural talents.
Well you said "no one can take the fact that she's the ONLY member of team 7 who wholey earned her power." Naruto earned most of his power, other than the Six Paths' power as of late. And even if you don't count that, Naruto is way beyond Sakura, so I still don't think she deserves any credit that Naruto (and even Sasuke IMO) don't deserve. Naruto started out as a normal boy as well, all the destiny stuff and being descended from Senju and being a successor of Ashura came way after he proved himself to be much more hard-working than Sakura already, and even in Part II he continued to work his butt off while Sakura remained stagnant. She only defeated Sasori because a legend was helping her, and I have nothing positive to say about her undeserved glory from the chapter before the last.

She trained off-screen, so what? it doesn't change the fact that Sakura by now has fully mastered the skills Tsunade imparted to her. This indicates that Sakura is indeed superior or equal to Tsunade at this point. Having similar skills doesn't make her a "clone". Going by your logic, Hinata is also a Niji clone. Naruto is a Jiraya clone because he can master the rasengan just like him? Sorry but this doesn't make any sense.
You're right about Hinata to some extent. But Naruto has plenty going for him that Jiraiya didn't have; Multi Shadow Clone Jutsu, mastering Sage Mode (because of the shadow clones), adding an element to Rasengan, ridiculous amount of work ethic/wanting to be Hokage, Senju lineage, everything that has to do with having the Kyuubi locked within him, etc. Sakura is pretty much just Tsunade 2.0, at least skill-wise.

Bottom line: Sakura as a main character is a complete failure in my humble opinion. She works as a character in general, but repeatedly trying to make her as relevant and on par as Naruto and Sasuke was a mistake if Kishi was going to put in such a halfhearted effort...

DBZ levels
Naruto is Goku, Sasuke is Vegeta, Sakura is Krillin (or Tienshinhan if you decide to add GT). Calling her a Yamcha is a major disgrace to her character development. A Yamcha would be the Elvis wannabe that Ino was hired to pretend and marry in one of the fillers from OG Naruto.
Meh, at some point Krillin, Tien and Yamcha were basically in the same boat. I only chose Yamcha because he's a little more recognized for failing to be of much help in the DBZ fights. My point still stands with any of those characters.

Lol..

You really CAN'T criticize Sakura and company, just like you couldn't criticize Krillin and company in DBZ. That's because the characters who AREN'T part of a famous / powerful clan like the Uzumaki or Uchiha (Saiyans) are apparently incapable of becoming that powerful on their own because they don't have the correct bloondlines (human). The only basis you have for comparison are to characters of like strength; such as Vegeta and Goku, or Sakura and, say, TenTen.
You're right. But I don't criticize Sakura for not being as powerful as Naruto and Sasuke, I criticize the story for pretending that she has to be, and then pretending that she succeeded, when clearly the same story shows us that she hasn't. At least not believably. Either Sakura doesn't have the means to catch up so she doesn't, OR she does have the means so she does catch up. Why force her character to tag along with the big boys if you're not even going to write her character well and give her a chance? I dunno, it doesn't really make sense to me.

For starters, this is Naruto, not Dragon Ball Z. I'm not even going to get on that. Next, going your logic, everyone in Konoha 11 is useless, right? Even if she wasn't given godly powers, she still assisted in the fight against Kaguya. Saving Sasuke and delivering a punch to Kaguya. I don't know how that makes her useless. (>.>)
I just used Dragonball Z as a metaphor. Okay, fine she's not useless. But my point is that Sakura is roughly on the same level as most of the Konoha 11. They may not be useless, but there's very little they could feasibly do to fight the greatest villain in the series. Sakura did her healing thing, that's about all that made sense. Punching Kaguya was nothing special, it was just a really strong sucker punch on an incapacitated enemy. It's nice that she did that, but to suggest that Sakura is just as relevant and important and powerful as Naruto and Sasuke just because she jumped in at the last second goes over my head.

But whatever, if people are really satisfied with how Sakura's been handled in the story, then I'm not complaining. There are plenty of things I like about the Naruto series that others practically hate, so to each their own.
 

Nodame

Well-Known Member
By the way, your comment about her standing around and doing nothing. Other then Sasori and this last stretch of the war arc, Sakura still stands in the background doing either very little or nothing. The Sasori fight and her punching random Juubi monsters in the war have been like her only action scenes in part 2. It's a improve over part 1, but beyond that she just sticks to healing. I think it's a crime what kishi's done with Sakura. If he was going to pull her forehead powerup BS, he could have at least given us some scenes of Naruto meeting Sakura in the middle of her training, have her keep it secret, give us subtle hints that something big is coming with Sakura, maybe have Tsunade ask her "How's the training going?" every once in awhile. Instead it comes out of nowhere and feels even worse then Sasuke's powerups.

Still, I don't hate Sakura. I know everyone on here probably thinks I do. But I don't play favorites when a character has a problem and other fans don't want to acknowledge it. Several of my true favorites in Naruto have flaws and BS moments that I call them out on too. So I'm not just picking on Sakura.

I forgot to mention something lol. Okay first of all Sakura's power up wasn't BS that you're claiming. I've also reread the manga multiple times, and If you pay attention to Sakura's conversation with Yamato she says, "I wanna do more than just the little things." Healing was a small thing for her, but carrying the burden of healing the entire alliance is pretty big. It's more than one person. Which doesn't make this small. Yes in the beginning of the war you saw her in like small scenes, but once she got the fight with Obito and Madara things changed. Let's not forget when she was desperate to save Naruto from death after loosing Kurama. You may argue that Oh well you knew he was gonna be saved after getting Yin Kurama, and that may be true however Naruto would've probably died had Sakura not give everything her all. Aside from that she had a big asset in trying to save Sasuke with Obito and Naruto, and let's not forget about her getting a hand in defeating Kaguya. I'm not saying your picking on Sakura, and I'm not trying to praise her. All I'm doing is giving her credit for what she's accomplished.

Well you said "no one can take the fact that she's the ONLY member of team 7 who wholey earned her power." Naruto earned most of his power, other than the Six Paths' power as of late. And even if you don't count that, Naruto is way beyond Sakura, so I still don't think she deserves any credit that Naruto (and even Sasuke IMO) don't deserve. Naruto started out as a normal boy as well, all the destiny stuff and being descended from Senju and being a successor of Ashura came way after he proved himself to be much more hard-working than Sakura already, and even in Part II he continued to work his butt off while Sakura remained stagnant. She only defeated Sasori because a legend was helping her, and I have nothing positive to say about her undeserved glory from the chapter before the last.

Do you even have reading comprehension? :x I didn't say Sakura worked harder than Naruto though, don't twist things up. My point is despite not having a power from an outside sources, she has proven herself worthy.
 
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Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
Good God, you guys are STILL arguing over Sakura?


Anyways did anyone notice the rabbit like monster that emerged alongside the tailed beasts? I wonder what the heck is it?
 

Lorde

Banned
Good God, you guys are STILL arguing over Sakura?

She's being glorified by fans for doing almost nothing throughout the series, which is the crux of the debate. Incompetence should not be rewarded with praise in my opinion. :x

Anyways did anyone notice the rabbit like monster that emerged alongside the tailed beasts? I wonder what the heck is it?

Kaguya's true form maybe? Not that it really matters now that she's sealed and all.
 
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Nodame

Well-Known Member
She's being glorified by fans for doing almost nothing throughout the series, which is the crux of the debate. Failure should not be rewarded with praise in my opinion. :x

We are giving her credit for what she's accomplished. You're the one who's in denial.
 

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
I forgot to mention something lol. Okay first of all Sakura's power up wasn't BS that you're claiming. I've also reread the manga multiple times, and If you pay attention to Sakura's conversation with Yamato she says, "I wanna do more than just the little things." Healing was a small thing for her, but carrying the burden of healing the entire alliance is pretty big. It's more than one person. Which doesn't make this small. Yes in the beginning of the war you saw her in like small scenes, but once she got the fight with Obito and Madara things changed. Let's not forget when she was desperate to save Naruto from death after loosing Kurama. You may argue that Oh well you knew he was gonna be saved after getting Yin Kurama, and that may be true however Naruto would've probably died had Sakura not give everything her all. Aside from that she had a big asset in trying to save Sasuke with Obito and Naruto, and let's not forget about her getting a hand in defeating Kaguya. I'm not saying your picking on Sakura, and I'm not trying to praise her. All I'm doing is giving her credit for what she's accomplished.



Do you even have reading comprehension? :x I didn't say Sakura worked harder than Naruto though, don't twist things up. My point is despite not having a power from an outside sources, she has proven herself worthy.

Well this is hopefully my last post on Sakura. I don't even know how I started talking about her when I was talking about Karin. But frankly I'm tired of talking about the both of them.

I do give Sakura credit where it's due. My entire argument was kishi turning Sakura into something she's not. Kishi decided to have her stick to a medic/support shinobi after the Sasori fight. I'm fine with that. She's a great healer. Healed Kankuro's poison, was great in the Sasori fight, and every once in awhile she lends unexpected knowledge. My problem is Kishi suddenly turns this series upside down with Sasuke's reforming and now that Sasuke's good again, he wanted a Team Seven glory moment and so he had to come up with something for Sakura that just came out of nowhere. Suddenly she had the forehead jutsu, suddenly she can summon slugs. I wonder why she never did this before. The slugs would have come in handy for Sasori. And if she didn't have it before that fight and got it after, show her training and working for it. I want to get behind Sakura's advancement but it came out of nowhere and just seems like a excuse to give Team Seven the Sannin treatment when clearly Sakura should not be anywhere near Naruto and Sasuke level, and should be nowhere near sturdy enough to fight the same enemies they do. I'm all for Sakura having her moment but I wish she got built up like Naruto did for this so it doesn't come off so forced.

I'm sorry. I wanted to make that short but it wasn't. I like Sakura. I just didn't like how kishi tried to push her as Naruto and Sasuke level when she's been just slightly above average as a shinobi until now. That's just me. But I will give Sakura and anyone credit where it's due. But I don't hate her or anything. Sometimes I don't think she gets the credit she truly does deserve in some areas.
 

Lorde

Banned
We are giving her credit for what she's accomplished. You're the one who's in denial.

Helping beat Sasori and doing a few good deeds during the war are basically the only positive things that she's really done in Part 2. That doesn't elevate her to Naruto's, Sasuke's, or even Kakashi's tier like some people are saying though. In her case, being an arguably badly-written character who Kishi made into more of a burden in the middle of Part 2 doesn't make me want to praise her.
 
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Nodame

Well-Known Member
Well this is hopefully my last post on Sakura. I don't even know how I started talking about her when I was talking about Karin. But frankly I'm tired of talking about the both of them.

I do give Sakura credit where it's due. My entire argument was kishi turning Sakura into something she's not. Kishi decided to have her stick to a medic/support shinobi after the Sasori fight. I'm fine with that. She's a great healer. Healed Kankuro's poison, was great in the Sasori fight, and every once in awhile she lends unexpected knowledge. My problem is Kishi suddenly turns this series upside down with Sasuke's reforming and now that Sasuke's good again, he wanted a Team Seven glory moment and so he had to come up with something for Sakura that just came out of nowhere. Suddenly she had the forehead jutsu, suddenly she can summon slugs. I wonder why she never did this before. The slugs would have come in handy for Sasori. And if she didn't have it before that fight and got it after, show her training and working for it. I want to get behind Sakura's advancement but it came out of nowhere and just seems like a excuse to give Team Seven the Sannin treatment when clearly Sakura should not be anywhere near Naruto and Sasuke level, and should be nowhere near sturdy enough to fight the same enemies they do. I'm all for Sakura having her moment but I wish she got built up like Naruto did for this so it doesn't come off so forced.

I'm sorry. I wanted to make that short but it wasn't. I like Sakura. I just didn't like how kishi tried to push her as Naruto and Sasuke level when she's been just slightly above average as a shinobi until now. That's just me. But I will give Sakura and anyone credit where it's due. But I don't hate her or anything. Sometimes I don't think she gets the credit she truly does deserve in some areas.

I understand your viewpoint and I agree with you that she needed more moments and build up. At least you do acknowledge Sakura and that's great.


Anyway, The Japanese government has decided that the chapters will be published three day before their commercialization and not five days like before. They have estimate that three days was enough....
 
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Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
She's being glorified by fans for doing almost nothing throughout the series, which is the crux of the debate. Incompetence should not be rewarded with praise in my opinion. :x



Kaguya's true form maybe? Not that it really matters now that she's sealed and all.


I guess that makes sense. It just feels nothing is being accomplished from all this fighting.


I wonder if the rabbit could be another tailed beast? As little sense as that makes, LOL.
 

nuzamaki90

Well-Known Member
Blah blah Sakura blah blah rage

Can we talk about how much freaking power Naruto put into that punch at Zetsu and Kaguya's arm?
 

Void Ventus

Sic Parvis Magna
So does this mean there will be two moons from now on...? Interesting if that's the case.

No. The Chibaku Tensei is in the other dimension. Hagoromo summoned them back to the real world with the help of all the dead Kages after.
 

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
The dead Kages didn't help so much with the final Kaguya fight. They did when Trolldara was around. Which just makes me wonder what was the point of the dead Kage? I still would have much preferred the alliance trying to help, even if by just support. The dead Hokage imo just took slots away from others that could have helped. And I still don't like that loophole of them being summoned after they were sealed away and Orochimaru getting his original arms back. They should have just stayed gone. This is when the war became a fanfic.
 

-Raiga-

Well-Known Member
What I liked about this chapter-

-The part where this arc is finally over.

What I disliked about this chapter-

-Madara existing in any kind of form, implying the arc will go on for another 200 chapters.
 

Lorde

Banned
I have a bad feeling that Hagoromo is the final villain and that the war isn't over yet. The ending just seemed too perfect in that Kaguya was sealed too easily while several things are still unanswered. :x
 

RiotFire

Well-Known Member
Or Kishi could seriously troll us and this whole fight turns out to be Naruto's infinite tsukuyomi dream and the real fight is still yet to happen ¬_¬

Everything seemed a bit too 'sunshine and rainbows' for my liking.
 

Profesco

gone gently
It's so tough to keep track of this series anymore.

So the fact of sealing Kaguya was to construct a moon around her? She's still there, just stuck inside those rocks in some alternate dimension? And Zetsu - the morphable, malleable, shadow-being - is also inside that moon? I am unclear on how exactly that amounts to defeating Kaguya. In a series where burying characters under humongous rocks does not guarantee their death even half of the time, how is this meant to convince us she's done for (let alone Zetsu, who can travel through solid earth anyway)? Her being in a separate dimension is also not exactly comforting given that she was the one who originally created and/or traveled to that dimension.

Is Kaguya supposed to be like Shedinja, where you can throw all kinds of powerful moves at her and they'll just bluntly fail, but once you make contact with the one particular thing she's susceptible to she goes down like a wet paper towel?


And I'm confused about that rabbit beast, too. It came out of her body (and apparently spit Madara from its mouth like a popcorn kernel) looking just like the other tailed beasts, who all took on their physical forms. So are we to assume it took a form like the others? Or do we assume it alone simply evaporated into nothing?


Then Hagoromo used a summoning jutsu to bring all the previous Kage back from "the pure land" - this series' afterlife? Forget for a moment my understanding that summoning jutsu require some sort of contract or marking applied to the summoned beforehand, but apparently now souls can be brought back from the afterlife? I'm also wondering why, if this Hagoromo guy has still existed all this time and still has these miraculous death-defying and interdimensional powers - including the chakras needed to seal Kaguya - then why ... has this whole series happened? Couldn't he do a single thing about the events of the world?

_____________________________________________​


As far as Sakura goes, I think the problem is that we don't know how to properly value her kind of power. With characters like Naruto and Sasuke, we can see them training and can see them getting stronger because their powers are essentially about physical action. They are offensive characters who grow by defeating others. Sakura is a character whose skill set is defensive: she is a strategist, a healer, a supporter. It is harder to see explicit defensive growth. Take her forehead chakra thingy, the 100 Healings. How does she train for that? By concentrating chakra on a single focal point - essentially, by thinking. Physically, visually, there is no representation of that, except perhaps to show her with closed eyes and a slightly furrowed brow. And her healing powers must be shown to improve by the relatively vague measures of how long she can do it, how bad an injury she can do it on, how many people she can heal simultaneously, and so on. Defensive power will always appear weaker than offensive power by its very nature, but that doesn't mean it's not just as skillful or great.

I think we are justified in being generous when we compare Sakura to the rest of Team 7. One thing we all should agree on is that the author's execution in showing/explaining/proving Sakura's strength has been poor. Maybe he doesn't know how to show defensive power in a way that satisfied him and so didn't even try, or maybe he really is just terrible at writing for female characters. Either way, Sakura's story has not been written as well as Naruto's or Sasuke's. Yet at the same time, we should all agree that the author's intent has been made clear: we are supposed to understand that Sakura is presently an equally great member of Team 7, or that she is as close to Naruto's/Sasuke's equal as anyone could get. As I say above, proofs of this are thin on the ground, sure, but I think that's a fair reason for us to make the most of those that do exist.

Take Sakura's head-punch to Kaguya. Sure, it was simple compared to what the other two were doing, but maybe we shouldn't think that just anyone else could have done it. Maybe that punch only worked because of Sakura's Tsunade-style strength. We've seen Kaguya shrug off some good blows, and we also agree to regard her as the yet-strongest villain, so it is reasonable to think only Kage-level strength could knock her back. We know that Tsunade is physically stronger than the Raikage, and we know that Sakura is as physically strong as Tsunade; therefore, Sakura is physically stronger than the Raikage, which is an impressive feat for a regular old teenager (and, given this manga, a female one to boot). (Perhaps someone who can quote chapters can tell us whether there is reason to think Sakura is even stronger than Tsunade.)

In regards to her medical ninjutsu: We know that Tsunade was regarded as the best medical ninja in history, and we know that the most obvious symbols of her strength as a medical ninja were her 100 Healings jutsu and her ability to distance-heal through the Katsuyu summon (which works off the summoner's power, not Katsuyu's). Now we know that Sakura can summon Katsuyu and distance heal as well, and we also know that Sakura has surpassed Tsunade's 100 Healings, e.g. that she could do it earlier/faster than Tsunade (and that she can use it to more effect since she does not have to apportion some of it to make herself look younger). So we would be justified in thinking that Sakura is now the best medical ninja in the series.


I've tried to give the best case for Sakura's greatness. The point is to persuade others that Sakura deserves for us to consider her as great as we consider Naruto and Sasuke (despite the fact that the author has done less work to convince us so). And - crucially - that we need not consider her great in exactly the same way. You could figure out who is the world's greatest biologist, and you could figure out who is the world's greatest physicist, but you would not be able to determine which is greater than the other, for although each is doing science, they are doing it in different ways and with different tools and produce different contributions to knowledge.
 
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