Naruto and Boruto Discussion Thread

[TsukiMirage]

No offense, but now it just sounds like your in denial. Why do I think Sasuke was telling Obito the truth? Well he tells Kakashi, Sakura, and Naruto the exact same thing that he's going to kill everyone in Konoha including them. And your question of Sasuke lying to Obito. Well if he was lying to Obito why would Kishi even bother to show that? If Sasuke was lying then wouldn't it make more sense to first show him lying to Obito and then going behind his back and telling Taka the truth? The opposite happened. As to why Sasuke lied to them. Sasuke already explained that himself in the chapter. He wants to slaughter Konoha by himself. When it comes to revenge Sasuke has always worked alone. Taka is just there to make sure nobody gets in the way of his revenge, but he's always taking revenge on his own and takes great pleasure in it. See killing Danzo.

Again, no offense, but I'm starting to wonder how much of this manga you've actually read. Please don't take that the wrong way though.

Sorry for the late response, my laptop got corrupted.

Anyway, Sasuke didn't talk to team Seven until after he had started killing innocent people. There was a clear difference between Sasuke before the summit, avoiding killing people and risking his life for Team Taka, and after, killing with no regard and not caring about Team Taka. And most importantly, he called out Naruto and set up a fight between them over that exact thing. He had no trouble putting that off, as oppose to trying his hardest to achieve his revenge against Itachi and Danzo. Not when it was showing the connection between Sasuke and Obito, and their attempts to use each other. Sasuke's actions right after that was leaving Obito's side and then attempting to kill him.

So he had to lie to them? All he would have had to do was tell them not to interfere. You know, like he did with Itachi previously. It's not as if they didn't already know the score when it came to Sasuke and his revenge. So again, what reason did he need to lie to them for? None of them had problem with killing, and they already knew not to interfere with his revenge.

Sasuke has an established history already of telling a villain one thing while he used them, and then betraying them as soon as they were of no more use. That combined with the fact that the whole Kirabi fight was suppose to show Sasuke actually caring for his teammates along with the previous mentioned issue about him having no reason to lie to them makes it far more liekly he was lying to Obito, especially given how he tried to and did betray Obito every chance he got.

And yet there's still the matter of Sasuke wanting to be Hokage too and how that conflicts with Naruto's dream. How else will that get resolved without a fight?

Well setting aside the fact that Naruto's goal of bring peace would mean the elimination of the villages therefore meaning there wouldn't be any position of Hokage, ever since he arrived on the battlefield, Sasuke has been pushing to work together. So it's quite possible that such a belief would continue.

 

[Platinum fan.]

Sorry for the late response, my laptop got corrupted.

Anyway, Sasuke didn't talk to team Seven until after he had started killing innocent people. There was a clear difference between Sasuke before the summit, avoiding killing people and risking his life for Team Taka, and after, killing with no regard and not caring about Team Taka. And most importantly, he called out Naruto and set up a fight between them over that exact thing. He had no trouble putting that off, as oppose to trying his hardest to achieve his revenge against Itachi and Danzo. Not when it was showing the connection between Sasuke and Obito, and their attempts to use each other. Sasuke's actions right after that was leaving Obito's side and then attempting to kill him.

So he had to lie to them? All he would have had to do was tell them not to interfere. You know, like he did with Itachi previously. It's not as if they didn't already know the score when it came to Sasuke and his revenge. So again, what reason did he need to lie to them for? None of them had problem with killing, and they already knew not to interfere with his revenge.

Sasuke has an established history already of telling a villain one thing while he used them, and then betraying them as soon as they were of no more use. That combined with the fact that the whole Kirabi fight was suppose to show Sasuke actually caring for his teammates along with the previous mentioned issue about him having no reason to lie to them makes it far more liekly he was lying to Obito, especially given how he tried to and did betray Obito every chance he got.

Well setting aside the fact that Naruto's goal of bring peace would mean the elimination of the villages therefore meaning there wouldn't be any position of Hokage, ever since he arrived on the battlefield, Sasuke has been pushing to work together. So it's quite possible that such a belief would continue.

Sorry to hear about your laptop. I know the feeling. Hope you got it fixed.

Anyway, I'm done with this debate. I have nothing more to add beyond what I've already stated. Sasuke planned to kill everyone in the village. That's not my opinion, it's a FACT. It was proven several times in the manga by Sasuke himself and that makes him a villain for that time. Not a anti-hero, a straight up villain. If you don't want to believe that then just read the volumes. They finish my arguments for me, because you're pretty much arguing against what the volumes set up. So I'm done. I have nothing new to add because I'll just be saying the same thing over and over again.

Now to everyone on Sakura vs Hinata. How did we get to this point? Now we're arguing who was more clinging to Naruto or Sasuke. They both are. The difference is Hinata did not start off as so Naruto centric as she is now. In part 1 Hinata actually had a life and Naruto just inspired her to be better at it and this is where the crush came in. Somewhere along the lines in part 2, Hinata simply became a Naruto groupie and whatever story she had beyond that was lost in her popularity and shipping. Hinata's the most popular female in the Naruto series so I'm not surprised it bit her in the butt in the end. To everyone who says all she ever thinks about is Naruto...well yeah. I have to agree with that. The only thing I'll argue is she wasn't always like that. Popularity and her shipping did her in.

 

[Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama]

Now to everyone on Sakura vs Hinata. How did we get to this point? Now we're arguing who was more clinging to Naruto or Sasuke. They both are. The difference is Hinata did not start off as so Naruto centric as she is now. In part 1 Hinata actually had a life and Naruto just inspired her to be better at it and this is where the crush came in. Somewhere along the lines in part 2, Hinata simply became a Naruto groupie and whatever story she had beyond that was lost in her popularity and shipping. Hinata's the most popular female in the Naruto series so I'm not surprised it bit her in the butt in the end. To everyone who says all she ever thinks about is Naruto...well yeah. I have to agree with that. The only thing I'll argue is she wasn't always like that. Popularity and her shipping did her in.

Sakura isn't clinging to Sasuke like she was in the past, I don't know why people still say this if there is nothing to prove it. Yes, about 300 chapters ago this would be valid, but no, it isn't now. And Hinata had a crush on him since she debuted. Naruto's thoughts of her in Part 1 were "A weirdo who looks away when I look at her. A shy and dark girl." Sakura also told Naruto "Oh yeah, she was always watching you." when Hinata was fighting Neji, so she liked Naruto before she even appeared. And her life is pretty much the same as it was in Part 1, the only thing that seems different is that she trained with Neji rather than train with Hanabi and she gained some self confidence.

 

[Nodame]

Sakura has developed pass her fangirl/admiration phase, Hinata has not.

Statement of the year.

Now we're arguing who was more clinging to Naruto or Sasuke. They both are.

You seem to easily forget Sakura's false smile and all the distrust she has in Sasuke. You are misguided if you can't see that Sakura places Naruto above Sasuke constantly. She's matured and no longer a fangirl.

 

[Jb]

Sakura is way more of a fangirl than Hinata. The fact that she has more screen time makes this a fact that can't be disputed.

Liking someone that hasn't done anything wrong to you isn't a fangirl. Liking someone, that had constantly told you to **** off, they don't care for you and even tried to kill you is. Anyone who disagrees is simply wrong.

 

[Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama]

Sakura is way more of a fangirl than Hinata. The fact that she has more screen time makes this a fake that can't be disputed.

Liking someone that hasn't done anything wrong to you isn't a fangirl. Liking someone, that had constantly told you to **** off, they don't care for you and even tried to kill you is. Anyone who disagrees is simply wrong.

Give me the chapter and page of Sakura fangirling over Sasuke in the recent 100 chapters. Without that, Hinata will remain as top fangirl.

 

[Jb]

Recent length of time is irrelevant. If I compared all the chapters of the manga that had fangirling, Sakura would beat out Hinata 78 to 1.

 

[Lorde]

Sakura isn't clinging to Sasuke like she was in the past, I don't know why people still say this if there is nothing to prove it. Yes, about 300 chapters ago this would be valid, but no, it isn't now. And Hinata had a crush on him since she debuted. Naruto's thoughts of her in Part 1 were "A weirdo who looks away when I look at her. A shy and dark girl." Sakura also told Naruto "Oh yeah, she was always watching you." when Hinata was fighting Neji, so she liked Naruto before she even appeared. And her life is pretty much the same as it was in Part 1, the only thing that seems different is that she trained with Neji rather than train with Hanabi and she gained some self confidence.

Imo, Sakura has improved a bit in the "fangirl" department lately, but the fact that she still cared about Sasuke even after he tried to kill her is what rankles me tbh. Same goes for Karin, who is even worse in the regard.

 

[Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama]

Recent length of time is irrelevant. If I compared all the chapters of the manga that had fangirling, Sakura would beat out Hinata 78 to 1.

Going by logic such as that, it seems as if you don't believe in development, which Sakura has plenty of. Like besho said, Sakura's matured, she isn't the same fangirl she used to be in Part 1 going gaga over everything Sasuke did calling him cool and cute.

Imo, Sakura has improved a bit in the "fangirl" department lately, but the fact that she still cared about Sasuke even after he tried to kill her is what rankles me tbh. Same goes for Karin, who is even worse in the regard.

And Tsunade still cared for Orochimaru. People in Konoha care for their comrades regardless of what they've done. Kakashi and Obito rings a bell, after everything Obito's done in the war and in the past, Kakashi still cared for him and wanted to bring him back. And I can see Sakura being no different.

 

[Platinum fan.]

Sakura isn't clinging to Sasuke like she was in the past, I don't know why people still say this if there is nothing to prove it. Yes, about 300 chapters ago this would be valid, but no, it isn't now. And Hinata had a crush on him since she debuted. Naruto's thoughts of her in Part 1 were "A weirdo who looks away when I look at her. A shy and dark girl." Sakura also told Naruto "Oh yeah, she was always watching you." when Hinata was fighting Neji, so she liked Naruto before she even appeared. And her life is pretty much the same as it was in Part 1, the only thing that seems different is that she trained with Neji rather than train with Hanabi and she gained some self confidence.

I never said Hinata didn't have the crush on Naruto in part 1. I said she had a life outside in part 1. Hinata's crush on Naruto stems from her being inspired by him because he's in the same boat as her. Labeled as a failure. But unlike her, Naruto worked to overcome it and become great. This inspired Hinata in part 1 to really try and change herself which was the entire point of her not giving up to Neji in their fight. This is a major reason why Hinata seems to be better received as a character then Sakura ever was. I've already dissected the Sakura/Sasuke thing.

In part 2 however, kishi ignores all this and basically makes Hinata a Naruto groupie whenever she appears and suddenly her life is more about crushing on Naruto then changing the bad qualities she had in part 1. There's a difference between Sakura and Hinata. Sakura has always been about Sasuke. Not one thing doesn't involve Sasuke in her life, even when Naruto's involved. I don't hate Sakura for it or anything, but this is probably why Hinata has always been more popular then Sakura.

 

[p96822]

Are we really not getting the message that Naruto is trying to give us. Stop looking at the past and look toward the future.

Really Hinata isn't that great of a charter because she is mostly one note. She doesn't has anything about her that is interesting or her personally is bland as a chalkboard. I think she shouldn't gotten all the populated in this manga. Hinata had something interesting, but Kishi didn't expand it and keep it in one spot of her having a crush/love on Naruto. I feel there could been more talked about her, but Kishi didn't do it. Also I think that Sakura was the better charter for have so much range of emotion and charter development. It her being a fangirl then becoming a stronger person at the end of it. I'm not saying that Hinata is weak I mean that the charter was just not explored enough for me to like her as a charter in this manga.

 

[Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama]

I never said Hinata didn't have the crush on Naruto in part 1. I said she had a life outside in part 1. Hinata's crush on Naruto stems from her being inspired by him because he's in the same boat as her. Labeled as a failure. But unlike her, Naruto worked to overcome it and become great. This inspired Hinata in part 1 to really try and change herself which was the entire point of her not giving up to Neji in their fight. This is a major reason why Hinata seems to be better received as a character then Sakura ever was. I've already dissected the Sakura/Sasuke thing.

In part 2 however, kishi ignores all this and basically makes Hinata a Naruto groupie whenever she appears and suddenly her life is more about crushing on Naruto then changing the bad qualities she had in part 1.

Hinata's not the only one who's been inspired by Naruto, Sakura, Shikamaru and Sai have as well. Sakura's also inherited the will of not giving up.

There's a difference between Sakura and Hinata. Sakura has always been about Sasuke. Not one thing doesn't involve Sasuke in her life, even when Naruto's involved. I don't hate Sakura for it or anything, but this is probably why Hinata has always been more popular then Sakura.

Wouldn't this apply for Naruto as well as Sakura? Naruto's just as bad as Sakura since most of his actions were about Sasuke since he left the village. Going back to things Hinata's done, Hinata's actions were all about Naruto.

 

[Lorde]

Are we really not getting the message that Naruto is trying to give us. Stop looking at the past and look toward the future.

The "messages" in this series contradict each other though; first Naruto didn't believe in destiny in Part 1, and now his entire character revolves around being the one destined to change the world in Part 2.

 

[Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama]

The "messages" in this series contradict each other though; first Naruto didn't believe in destiny in Part 1, and now his entire character revolves around being the one destined to change the world in Part 2.

I'm drawing a blank, where was this from? Because I thought Naruto said destiny is something that can't be decided. :/

 

[Platinum fan.]

Hinata's not the only one who's been inspired by Naruto, Sakura, Shikamaru and Sai have as well. Sakura's also inherited the will of not giving up.

Wouldn't this apply for Naruto as well as Sakura? Naruto's just as bad as Sakura since most of his actions were about Sasuke since he left the village. Going back to things Hinata's done, Hinata's actions were all about Naruto.

Yes, Naruto's actions are just as bad in part 2. I've complained about it several times and even called this manga "Sasuke" at one point. As far as Hinata, I already explained what Hinata's storyline was and how Naruto inspired her to work at it in part 1. But her entire existence didn't revolve around Naruto. Not like it does now in part 2.

I don't know what your point is for saying Shikamaru and the others are inspired by Naruto too. Nearly everyone is inspired by Naruto in this series.

 

[Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama]

Yes, Naruto's actions are just as bad in part 2. I've complained about it several times and even called this manga "Sasuke" at one point. As far as Hinata, I already explained what Hinata's storyline was and how Naruto inspired her to work at it in part 1. But her entire existence didn't revolve around Naruto. Not like it does now in part 2.

I don't know what your point is for saying Shikamaru and the others are inspired by Naruto too. Nearly everyone is inspired by Naruto in this series.

See, that's where you're confusing me. What sets apart Part 1 Hinata and Part 2 Hinata? Her fight against Neji is the only thing I can think of....

And I said that because Hinata wasn't the only one to be inspired by Naruto. There was no trick to it. The way how you said it was like Hinata was the one and only to be inspired, which I had to call out.

 

[p96822]

The "messages" in this series contradict each other though; first Naruto didn't believe in destiny in Part 1, and now his entire character revolves around being the one destined to change the world in Part 2.

Hello there can more then one message in a series.

 

[Platinum fan.]

See, that's where you're confusing me. What sets apart Part 1 Hinata and Part 2 Hinata? Her fight against Neji is the only thing I can think of....

And I said that because Hinata wasn't the only one to be inspired by Naruto. There was no trick to it. The way how you said it was like Hinata was the one and only to be inspired, which I had to call out.

I thought I explained this, but I can do it again. Part 2 Hinata is basically just a Naruto groupie. Her storyline of improving herself has apparently been either dropped or forgotten. Because it's never brought up. Whenever she shows up in part 2 it's Naruto related, and the only time it wasn't is when they were hunting Sasuke and found Kabuto. In part 1, Hinata's crush was actually secondary to her wanting to improve herself. Her crush came as a result of Naruto inspiring her to improve herself so it was actually secondary in part 1. But as she got more popular, this story is seemingly dropped in exchange for her swooning over Naruto or simply doing everything based around him. Hinata was always in love with Naruto, but in part 1 she had a life outside it.

As for everyone else inspired by Naruto, when did I ever say she was the only one inspired by Naruto? I never said that. Which is why I didn't get why you brought this up. Hinata's not even the biggest changed person Naruto's made in the series.

 

[Lorde]

I'm drawing a blank, where was this from? Because I thought Naruto said destiny is something that can't be decided. :/

My point is that Kishi changed the direction of the story by relying on prophecies and destiny, which has gone on to affect Naruto's purpose, with or without being explicitly stated.

 

[Tuskie Tyrant Yoko Kurama]

I thought I explained this, but I can do it again. Part 2 Hinata is basically just a Naruto groupie. Her storyline of improving herself has apparently been either dropped or forgotten. Because it's never brought up. Whenever she shows up in part 2 it's Naruto related, and the only time it wasn't is when they were hunting Sasuke and found Kabuto. In part 1, Hinata's crush was actually secondary to her wanting to improve herself. Her crush came as a result of Naruto inspiring her to improve herself so it was actually secondary in part 1. But as she got more popular, this story is seemingly dropped in exchange for her swooning over Naruto or simply doing everything based around him. Hinata was always in love with Naruto, but in part 1 she had a life outside it.

As for everyone else inspired by Naruto, when did I ever say she was the only one inspired by Naruto? I never said that. Which is why I didn't get why you brought this up. Hinata's not even the biggest changed person Naruto's made in the series.

Thank you for explaining, I didn't have the slightest clue of what you were talking about, but you make a valid point about her character. Though it doesn't surprise me, she isn't the only character with potential to go to waste in a way, Neji's a great example.

No, you're misunderstanding, I said "the way how you said it" it only seemed as if you were saying Hinata was the only one. That is what I meant.