• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Naruto/Naruto Shippuden

DawnGirl_4

The Darkness within
As most Naruto fans know there is the original Naruto and the newer Naruto, Naruto Shippuden. In my own opinion I like the newer Naruto Shippuden better because there is a wider range of characters. What do you peoples like? The newer one or the older one. Also just talk about anything Naruto. I LOVE THE AKATSUKI!!
 

BlueDragonfangirl

Well-Known Member
I like the original Naruto, back when Kishi knew what to do with the series. Now, where is every one besides Naruto and Saskue? I never asked about Saskura, she never did a thing, even back in the original series but.
 

Opal Pikachu13

Well-Known Member
Sakura hardly did a thing other than in the Forest of Death (if anyone even counts that), and against Sasori in Shippuden. All she does mostly is whine and cry about Naruto and Sasuke. Now currently the Shippuden anime is in a flood of fillers now that really aren't worth watching. The manga is way ahead of where the anime is now.
 

pancakeninja

Fanfic Obsessed
I love Shippuden! I don't get where you people who don't like it are getting at. Kishi knows what he's doing, and he's doing a good job, in my opinion. I really like the storyline. Too bad most of the Akatsuki are gone! :(
(Everyone is entitled their own opinion..)
 

Mr. Reloaded

Cause a pirate is free
I liked the original series not the newer one (which sucks) the problems I'm having with the new one is.
. Nothing interesting
He's still looking for saskue
Half of the original characters died already
Its fanbase need I add more to this rant?
 

funrush

Elite Beat Agent
I liked the original series not the newer one (which sucks) the problems I'm having with the new one is.
. Nothing interesting
He's still looking for saskue
Half of the original characters died already
Its fanbase need I add more to this rant?
Nothing interesting? What about the fights with Hidan? Or Sasuke Vs. Itachi? Jiraiya Vs. Pain? What about Konan Vs. Madara?

Yeah, he's still looking for Sasuke, which I actually agree that it's really stupid.

The original characters dying is really just part of the dark feel of Shippuden.

I, however, will agree with you that a lot of the fanbase does infact suck.
 

The Doctor

Absolute Beginner
Nothing interesting? What about the fights with Hidan? Or Sasuke Vs. Itachi? Jiraiya Vs. Pain? What about Konan Vs. Madara?

Fights don't make a story interesting, especially these fights. Battles in Naruto go like this:

  1. Both ninja have a quick spar, with one ending up on the ropes.
  2. The weaker ninja pulls out an additional power/skill to turn the tables.
  3. The other ninja does the same.
  4. Rinse and repeat until someone wins.

There's nothing clever, or exciting about these. The fights with Hidan were good because they deviated from the norm. They were different. They involved someone using their bloody brain.

The outcome of the Sasuke and Itachi fight was also complete and utter BS. Itachi died to protect Konoha and his brother, Sasuke is eventually told he died to protect Konoha, and what does Sasuke do? Say "Screw my brother, I'ma blow up Konoha anyway!", meaning Itachi's only role in the plot was to make Sasuke stronger. He was a goal Sasuke had to reach, and he gives Sasuke the Mangekyo. That's it. He serves no other purpose.

The original characters dying is really just part of the dark feel of Shippuden.

OK, let's count off the characters from Part I that have died in Shippuuden and have stayed dead:

  • Jiraiya.
  • Um...

Asuma and Itachi, among others, have been or will be at some point in the series, raised from the dead, with personalities intact. Orochimaru lives on in Kabuto. Also, if you want to make your story dark, try more complex, philosophical themes, or put your characters in agonising dilemmas. Killing off characters only work if they actually stay dead.

I refer you to Nagato's last act: reviving all of the fatalities during the Attack on Konoha. It's a cheap, sentimental get-out clause; you could write a darker story about the impact of this, but no. Kishimoto decided to bring them all back. This is NOT dark mature storytelling. This is amateur.

Just in case I haven't quite clarified my feelings about Shippuuden, allow me to summarise it in one point: remember the fight between Naruto and Neji? Remember how Neji was confined to his fate until Naruto angrily and passionately declared that destiny doesn't matter? Well now he's the Chosen One, appointed by destiny to save the world, making that entire speech about fighting against fate and others pre-conceptions, wait for it, completely bloody pointless.

When your story about a plucky underdog overcoming adversity through sheer will devolves into a tired old chosen one tale, you have failed as a writer.
 

funrush

Elite Beat Agent
You mean the 60% flashbacks, 40% of Naruto's whinning about Sasuke?

I read the manga, where there are little to no flashbacks, and while Sasuke is his goal besides becoming Hokage, he doesn't talk about it as much.

And, I actually agree with you on a lot of those things, The Doctor, except for the amount of characters dead. When they were revived, most of them were just sealed back up.
 

PokeMaster366

Well-Known Member
Fights don't make a story interesting, especially these fights. Battles in Naruto go like this:

  1. Both ninja have a quick spar, with one ending up on the ropes.
  2. The weaker ninja pulls out an additional power/skill to turn the tables.
  3. The other ninja does the same.
  4. Rinse and repeat until someone wins.

There's nothing clever, or exciting about these. The fights with Hidan were good because they deviated from the norm. They were different. They involved someone using their bloody brain.

The outcome of the Sasuke and Itachi fight was also complete and utter BS. Itachi died to protect Konoha and his brother, Sasuke is eventually told he died to protect Konoha, and what does Sasuke do? Say "Screw my brother, I'ma blow up Konoha anyway!", meaning Itachi's only role in the plot was to make Sasuke stronger. He was a goal Sasuke had to reach, and he gives Sasuke the Mangekyo. That's it. He serves no other purpose.



OK, let's count off the characters from Part I that have died in Shippuuden and have stayed dead:

  • Jiraiya.
  • Um...

Asuma and Itachi, among others, have been or will be at some point in the series, raised from the dead, with personalities intact. Orochimaru lives on in Kabuto. Also, if you want to make your story dark, try more complex, philosophical themes, or put your characters in agonising dilemmas. Killing off characters only work if they actually stay dead.

I refer you to Nagato's last act: reviving all of the fatalities during the Attack on Konoha. It's a cheap, sentimental get-out clause; you could write a darker story about the impact of this, but no. Kishimoto decided to bring them all back. This is NOT dark mature storytelling. This is amateur.

Just in case I haven't quite clarified my feelings about Shippuuden, allow me to summarise it in one point: remember the fight between Naruto and Neji? Remember how Neji was confined to his fate until Naruto angrily and passionately declared that destiny doesn't matter? Well now he's the Chosen One, appointed by destiny to save the world, making that entire speech about fighting against fate and others pre-conceptions, wait for it, completely bloody pointless.

When your story about a plucky underdog overcoming adversity through sheer will devolves into a tired old chosen one tale, you have failed as a writer.

XDXDXD. This is funny because it's actually true once you think about it for a minute. The first half of Naruto was much more interesting than this new stuff. I still don't like the filler arcs, though.
 

The Doctor

Absolute Beginner
And, I actually agree with you on a lot of those things, The Doctor, except for the amount of characters dead. When they were revived, most of them were just sealed back up.

That still means I'm right about dead characters not actually staying dead, and it still makes their sacrifices pointless - not just Asuma, but Zabuza and Haku as well. Their deaths had real tragedy, but it's rendered meaningless since they've been dragged back up, and to little effect. If they just get sealed back up after a couple of chapters, and they're sealed in a way that doesn't mean they have to fight forever in the belly of a death god, you've defanged the threat of the jutsu, which isn't being dark. Part of why the resurrection was so shocking was that in order to properly beat the resurrected, you had to confine their souls to the worst possible fate, but now there's an alternate way of doing it, that loses its sting. This also makes the Third Hokage's sacrifice pointless, as well as the Fourth - if there's a cleaner, more simple way of stopping the dead from walking, why didn't they know about it? Both Hokages are master shinobi, well versed in the ninja arts. You'd think they'd have known about this.

Also, if you agree with me on what I said, then that must also mean you think the fights aren't interesting, or that it isn't dark. So all your points are moot.
 
Last edited:

Kamex

Team Rocket's rockin
There is no dark feel. They die because Kishi can't write a good story without killing off EVERY major character.
Every major character died? I must be watching a different Shippuden than you.

Fights don't make a story interesting, especially these fights. Battles in Naruto go like this:

  1. Both ninja have a quick spar, with one ending up on the ropes.
  2. The weaker ninja pulls out an additional power/skill to turn the tables.
  3. The other ninja does the same.
  4. Rinse and repeat until someone wins.
Is that so bad? It showcases the strengths of each character and dynamically displays what makes them interesting. Sure, I agree that the more intellectual battles leave me more satisfied, but I don't see how the typical Naruto battle is devoid of any interest or excitement for you. Plus, I don't see how this is different than most of the fights in the original Naruto series, does that mean you didn't really like that one either?

That being said, I think your points are valid to some extent. Kishi definitely has made a lot of strange, regrettable decisions with the plot of Part II of the story, like the things you mentioned. But I find it hard to believe anything he's done has made Shippuden a completely crappy waste of time like you make it sound.
 

The Doctor

Absolute Beginner
Is that so bad? It showcases the strengths of each character and dynamically displays what makes them interesting. Sure, I agree that the more intellectual battles leave me more satisfied, but I don't see how the typical Naruto battle is devoid of any interest or excitement for you. Plus, I don't see how this is different than most of the fights in the original Naruto series, does that mean you didn't really like that one either?

The fact that I can summarise virtually every battle in Shippuuden like this would say "Yes, that is bad". It's not really interesting if each combatant keeps swapping their positions of power. Also, what supposedly makes these characters interesting really isn't that interesting, either being easily defused (Konan's ability to fold into paper loses all threat when Jiraiya sprayed her with oil) or done before; yes, Killer B can use several swords at once. Too bad One Piece got there ten years ago, and in a way that wasn't so stupid (how the HELL can you use a sword tucked under your leg?).

Frankly I preferred fights that are more intellectual and cunning because, last I checked, this is a world of ninja. Assassins and spies capable of more than just straight-up fisticuffs. The fight with Kakashi and Zabuza relied as much on stealth and trickery as it did hand-to-hand combat, even more so, and was much more interesting because of it. A lot of the Chunin exams were enjoyable because there was a sense the characters were making things up as they went along (Naruto using his clones against Kiba, for example), or otherwise forced to find new strategies against a difficult opponent (like Lee vs. Gaara). Characters pulling superpowers out from nowhere to try and get one up on each other is just tedious.
 

Jb

Tsun in the streets
Every major character died? I must be watching a different Shippuden than you.

3rd Hokage (Sarutobi)
Asuma
Chiyo-baa-sama
Gaara
Hidan
Kakuzu
Orochimaru
Sasori
Jaraiya(sp?)

Um, the entire Leaf Village?

The list is way bigger as you should know.

Being revived by some cheap method doesn't change that they were killed. Also no one cares about Rock Lee and friends because they don't do anything anyway.

Title of the series should be change to Naruto and Saskue ft. Kakashi and friends.
 

Kamex

Team Rocket's rockin
The Doctor said:
Also, what supposedly makes these characters interesting really isn't that interesting, either being easily defused (Konan's ability to fold into paper loses all threat when Jiraiya sprayed her with oil)
Well every power has a weakness, it would be silly if they didn't. I don't see that as detracting from a character.

or done before; yes, Killer B can use several swords at once. Too bad One Piece got there ten years ago, and in a way that wasn't so stupid (how the HELL can you use a sword tucked under your leg?).
In a world where you can summon items and animals and even people from out of nowhere and bend elements and perform crazy physical feats and defy death itself, I don't think what Killer Bee does is particularly notable. And as for being done before, it's pretty difficult to come up with 100% new material that hasn't been touched yet, and I don't think Kishi has had too much trouble with that if I remember correctly.

Frankly I preferred fights that are more intellectual and cunning because, last I checked, this is a world of ninja. Assassins and spies capable of more than just straight-up fisticuffs.
Well I can't argue with that. But I daresay that while Naruto has become more DBZ-like in Shippuden, since the very beginning it hasn't been as focused on stealth and other typical ninja feats as you'd think it would be.

Characters pulling superpowers out from nowhere to try and get one up on each other is just tedious.
You're pretty much right about that... but my main point is that Kishi is still able to create memorable characters with interesting connections and an engaging main storyline in my opinion. As much as I'd like him to spend more time and creativity increasing the quality of the battles, I'm still interested in the history of the Gokage, and the abilities of characters like Darui, and how Kakashi got his Mangekyou Sharingan, and Madara's personality and past, for instance. It's unfortunate that you can't find anything at all to like about Shippuden.
 

The Doctor

Absolute Beginner
Well every power has a weakness, it would be silly if they didn't. I don't see that as detracting from a character.

We had barely seen Konan's powers at that point so any potential threat they had is negated as soon as you see she can be rendered useless by pushing her into a river.

In a world where you can summon items and animals and even people from out of nowhere and bend elements and perform crazy physical feats and defy death itself, I don't think what Killer Bee does is particularly notable. And as for being done before, it's pretty difficult to come up with 100% new material that hasn't been touched yet, and I don't think Kishi has had too much trouble with that if I remember correctly.

But those crazy physical feats use chakra. I remember in the Chunin exam one ninja who had surgery to make all his limbs malleable and stretchable, in addition to chakra. There is no similar explanation for B, like he magnetises them to his skin or something. He uses lightning to add power, but that's it. Even by the story's standards, this is physically impossible. How can you fight someone with swords tucked into your armpit, stomach, elbows, and underneath your leg? It just looks silly, and I refuse to accept he was able to beat Sasuke, a Sharingan user, and Suigetsu, an exceptionally skilled swordsman, with it.

Well I can't argue with that. But I daresay that while Naruto has become more DBZ-like in Shippuden, since the very beginning it hasn't been as focused on stealth and other typical ninja feats as you'd think it would be.

This stems more from my problem with the series as a whole with calling them ninja when they don't behave like ninja, admittedly.

You're pretty much right about that... but my main point is that Kishi is still able to create memorable characters with interesting connections and an engaging main storyline in my opinion. As much as I'd like him to spend more time and creativity increasing the quality of the battles, I'm still interested in the history of the Gokage, and the abilities of characters like Darui, and how Kakashi got his Mangekyou Sharingan, and Madara's personality and past, for instance. It's unfortunate that you can't find anything at all to like about Shippuden.

I went off Naruto around the time Sasuke abandoned Konoha because nothing actually happened aside from Naruto and Sasuke getting power-ups. It was dragged out for as long as Kishimoto could manage, both the fight and fighting the Sound Four (not to say we didn't get some interesting fights out of it, though), and in the end, it meant nothing. Sasuke still leaves to train under Orochimaru, leaving everything pointless. Oh sure, he has respect for Naruto, but that bit of character development was shoehorned in at the start by Sasuke acting rude to Naruto, one of the few ninja he respects and considers his equal. The Chunin exam has him say to Naruto that he can't wait to fight him because he considered him a worthy opponent. That's all undone there only to be restored anyway so what was the bloody point?

And even after skipping the story ahead two years, it's clear Kishimoto has no idea what he's doing. The story was rooted on Naruto ascending through the ranks against all odds, your typical underdog story, but rather than focusing on that - a simple story well-told - he decided to diligently ignore that and make it a typical chosen one story. Naruto, the one who told Neji to screw fate and do what he wanted, is now prophesied to unite the shinobi world, and if it wasn't clear he's super-special-awesome by virtue of birth yet, he's also a descendant of the First Hokage!

This isn't even mentioning all the asspulls, either. Just as the Kyuubi is about to break out, a vision of the Fourth Hokage appears, apropos of nothing, stops it, shoots the breeze with Naruto, then disappears because his work is done. Or how about Nagato resurrecting a village he spent the past several episodes destroying and proving Konoha could be hurt? Deus ex machinae in the bloody extreme. Oh, and of course what's been done to the Tailed Beasts as a whole. Originally, they appeared to be real mythical beasts, creatures who would show up one day and decide to wreck your shit, but no, out of nowhere, they're just by-products of a much bigger beast. There is no indication anywhere that hinted at the Jyuubi itself, more proof that Kishimoto has no idea what he's writing and is making this up as we go along. There's also his habit of involving the Uchiha clan in absolutely bloody everything - they're apparently all a bunch of cackling villains with a stranglehold over everything with an immensely overpowered weapon. The Sharingan can do more than just improve the user's perception, it can also create unstoppable god-fire and warp reality, and it's in the hands of every major villain - Madara, Danzo, Sasuke - for no reason other than it's grotesquely overpowered. It's this reliance on single plot elements that show Kishimoto is a poor writer - what's the best way to establish a villain? I know! Give 'em a Sharingan! There are apparently enough of them lying around!

And the character derailment. I don't get how fans can stand behind this. Naruto hyperventilating, sobbing and collapsing at the thought of bringing Sasuke in and having to fight him, even though he's never meant to quit in the face of insurmountable odds and indeed did fight with him at the end of Part I. If he's older, wiser and more powerful, and he's already forgiven the guy who killed his mentor, why is he bursting into tears now? Especially considering Kishimoto turned him into a badass with Sage Mode. Sasuke looked like a noble demon, loyal to his squad, ready to sacrifice himself to save them, but then it turns out he's perfectly willing to betray them and has gone from anti-hero to complete monster, and whose actions rarely if ever get addressed in the story. It's as though him not actually succeeding in committing horrible acts. Sakura started off promisingly enough, but that all went out the window because she was a woman and thus prone to crying and being rescued by the boys at the drop of a hat, even though she's older and wiser. And is prepared to do little more than believe in them, despite the fact she has superhuman strength.

It's the appalling plot, and the way Kishimoto treats his characters - shoving them to one side or inverting what they are so more glory can come to Sasuke, who he outright stated will make more powerful to match Naruto, and letting his acts of terrorism go unanswered - that have made Shippuuden unwatchable. For every good thing it does, it screws up five other things. To the people who like Shippuuden, and I really don't mind if you do, let me ask you this: Do you honestly love where the series is going? Do you wholeheartedly support the direction Kishimoto's moving it in? Or are you just settling for mediocrity because it's all "dark" and "edgy"?

There's nothing redeeming about Shippuuden for me. Nothing.
 
Top