New 11 episode series, "Pocket Monsters: Mezase Pokemon Master", starts January 13th 2023

[solrocknroll]

Yes the fact that this is going to end with Ash running off into the sunset is laughable indeed. Also, Lapras itself didn't really get any conclusion and frankly was never a priority. Pidgeot, Dawn, Giovanni and the Rocket Organization should've been the priority (I'd say Serena needed another episode too but apparently people think a 30 second hi and bye is good enough). 26 years of TRio and it's likely going to end in a single episode with them getting fired and Giovanni just sitting there unresolved (unless he steps down or gets arrested which is also ridiculous). The Latias "arc" is looking to end in the most generic way possible.

There’s a myriad of factors for why this happened and placing all the weight on this glorified filler miniseries epilogue is unfair. The real pressing issue is that clearly Journeys wasn’t meant to be the last era from the start and that decision was made late, which meant there wasn’t enough time to deal with 25 years of loose ends. Year 1 of Journeys was meandering and Year 2 was playing catch up after the director change. Year 3 had basically no filler and every episode in 2022 was important to the plot despite the production difficulties.

Some of those wishes are just not necessary. Dawn and Serena don’t need any more resolution than they had, especially since the Serena episode in Journeys was pretty clearly written as a goodbye for her of sorts. Some day you’ll just have to learn that not every character is going to have some grand dream ending tied up in a bow. Besides all that, Ash’s goal has never been taking out Giovanni and that’s easily the most unrealistic ask anyone could ever have for this series.

I do think it’s genuinely a shame that Pidgeot, Larvitar, and Ambipom in particular didn’t get to come back, and there’s plenty of characters I’d have loved to see more of. However, it’s clear that this miniseries is a character capstone for Ash and not anybody else, and those decisions are on Journeys’ shoulders for not making the decision to start wrapping the series up sooner. If they had had a deliberate end goal for Journeys all along, the series wouldn’t have come across as such a slapdash affair.

 

[Dark_King25]

Dawn and Serena don’t need any more resolution than they had, especially since the Serena episode in Journeys was pretty clearly written as a goodbye for her of sorts.

Dawn clearly needs more resolution as she is one of the most goal driven characters in the series not seeing any of her progress post dp was really disappointing. Serena on the other hand... well it's best to talk about that case in another thread

 

[solrocknroll]

Dawn clearly needs more resolution as she is one of the most goal driven characters in the series not seeing any of her progress post dp was really disappointing. Serena on the other hand... well it's best to talk about that case in another thread

I honestly agree that it’s disappointing that they had Dawn stagnate but I can’t think of what more they could do with her without breaking the seemingly self-imposed rule the writers have about not letting any of Ash’s friends reach the very top of their field or reach their goal. Even Iris, Champion as she may be, isn’t a Dragon Master. I’d argue that’s all more a flaw of the writers’ rules than what MPM could have done for Dawn though, but she really should have had Typhlosion at the very least.

As for Serena, I also agree that’s clearly a conversation for another time. There’s simply no way that everyone was going to be happy with what they did with her. As it stands, I think they did fine by her even if it wasn’t the big emotional moment that Amourshippers would have wanted. She’s on the same level as May and Lisia and she even got to do a big final performance, which Dawn wasn’t given the luxury of getting.

 

[RafaSceptile]

I honestly agree that it’s disappointing that they had Dawn stagnate but I can’t think of what more they could do with her without breaking the seemingly self-imposed rule the writers have about not letting any of Ash’s friends reach the very top of their field or reach their goal.

Unless you are Lillie

 

[Akkipeddi]

There’s a myriad of factors for why this happened and placing all the weight on this glorified filler miniseries epilogue is unfair. The real pressing issue is that clearly Journeys wasn’t meant to be the last era from the start and that decision was made late, which meant there wasn’t enough time to deal with 25 years of loose ends. Year 1 of Journeys was meandering and Year 2 was playing catch up after the director change. Year 3 had basically no filler and every episode in 2022 was important to the plot despite the production difficulties.

Some of those wishes are just not necessary. Dawn and Serena don’t need any more resolution than they had, especially since the Serena episode in Journeys was pretty clearly written as a goodbye for her of sorts. Some day you’ll just have to learn that not every character is going to have some grand dream ending tied up in a bow. Besides all that, Ash’s goal has never been taking out Giovanni and that’s easily the most unrealistic ask anyone could ever have for this series.

I do think it’s genuinely a shame that Pidgeot, Larvitar, and Ambipom in particular didn’t get to come back, and there’s plenty of characters I’d have loved to see more of. However, it’s clear that this miniseries is a character capstone for Ash and not anybody else, and those decisions are on Journeys’ shoulders for not making the decision to start wrapping the series up sooner. If they had had a deliberate end goal for Journeys all along, the series wouldn’t have come across as such a slapdash affair.

Obviously Journeys takes a lot of blame for the way it ended up, hyping up a world tour format but ultimately failing to deliver. However, I don't accept the excuse that Journeys failure can't be placed on Mezase. This 11 episode series is an extension of JN by all accounts, and I'm sure the team had this series in mind when they realised they couldn't conclude the anime within JN. A lot of the other characters receiving resolutions to their stories is as important as just having a character capstone for Ash, given that he traveled with so many characters and shaped their goals and adventures.

As for Team Rocket, the trio are basically the second most important characters in the anime behind Ash, and they deserve better, something that involves the whole Rocket Organization given that's where they work and have been using as a reason to catch Pikachu. Even if it's not Ash's personal mission to bring down Giovanni, you don't just have a big boss for 26 years only for him to never be brought down, that's just abysmal writing. Something like the TRio being treated badly by Giovanni and Ash symphatising with them and the team up to bring him down could've worked.

"Some day you'll just have to learn that not every character is going to have some grand dream ending tied up in a bow". Wow, so apparently it's the viewers fault for expecting the bare minimum of seeing some plot points tied up, but apparently it's unreasonable. You're right, maybe it was unreasonable to expect some bare minimum competence from this anime of all things.

 

[Guy100]

They could've definitely written a more conclusive series within these 11 episodes. Ash could easily be travelling to various regions to meet his friends and released Pokémon again (with Brock and Misty). Gary's question could've had some actual weight if it was done in the first episode, instead it's in the last episode and almost gives the impression like they duped everyone. Nobody expected anything "lavish" (whatever that means in this context), just something more fulfilling for a series that was billed as "the final chapter in the story of Ash and Pikachu"

Usually when an anime does an epilogue, its featured for one episode. However, the fact that the Pokemon anime team decided to structure an overly stretched out nonchalant story, especially since episode 11 is intended to be the true focus of the plot for this mini-series, just gives me this vibe that the true intention of this story arc may have been done as a market strategy to derail the younger audiences (age 10 demographics) interest in wanting to see Ash in more stories, especially since he's a world champion, in order to get them more hyped for the new series and its characters.

The best way to get the audience to lose their interest in a character within an action adventure franchise such as Pokemonm is to make the said character's adventure less appealing (boring) to the target audience, which may explain why this story has not lived up to the anticipation of what many fans hoped it would do. And the Pokemon anime is clearly aware of this.

 

[Dark_King25]

As for Serena, I also agree that’s clearly a conversation for another time. There’s simply no way that everyone was going to be happy with what they did with her. As it stands, I think they did fine by her even if it wasn’t the big emotional moment that Amourshippers would have wanted. She’s on the same level as May and Lisia and she even got to do a big final performance, which Dawn wasn’t given the luxury of getting.

Well I agree that the Pokemon Performer side of Serena has been nicely concluded but a huge percentage of fans(Including me) really values her relationship with Ash knowing that a 30 second reunion is most likely their their last interaction together kinda hurts

 

[Morax]

The best way to get the audience to lose their interest in a character within an action adventure franchise such as Pokemonm is to make the said character less appealing (boring) to the target audience, which may explain why this story has not lived up to the anticipation of what many fans hoped it would do. And the Pokemon anime is clearly aware of this.

I mean Ash was a boring character to begin with. I'm sorry, did you think they could go any lower?

 

[Akkipeddi]

Usually when an anime does an epilogue, its featured for one episode. However, the fact that the Pokemon anime team decided to structure an overly stretched out nonchalant story, especially since episode 11 is intended to be the true focus of the plot for this mini-series, just gives me this vibe that the true intention of this story arc may have been done as a market strategy to derail the younger audiences (age 10 demographics) interest in wanting to see Ash in more stories, especially since he's a world champion, in order to get them more hyped for the new series and its characters.

The best way to get the audience to lose their interest in a character within an action adventure franchise such as Pokemonm is to make the said character less appealing (boring) to the target audience, which may explain why this story has not lived up to the anticipation of what many fans hoped it would do. And the Pokemon anime is clearly aware of this.

Yeah this might be the best possible "copium" one can use to justify this series lol. Probably for the best if I start thinking this way too, cause trying to rationalize this 11 episode series will lead me nowhere.

 

[Trey pokes]

Well, this thread has gone places now hasn't it?

 

[Morax]

Well, this thread has gone places now hasn't it?

Where did it go?

 

[Sham]

Did somebody just say they’re making the show purposely “bad” just to lose ratings as a marketing strategy?

 

[Guy100]

I mean Ash was a boring character to begin with. I'm sorry, did you think they could go any lower?

I was referring more about Ash's story (adventure) than I was his character. In regarding his character, it just depends on the viewers perspective. Either you choose to like a story which revolves around an underdog (Ash) or a story that revolves around a prodigy, Yugi-oh being a prime example.

In regarding the handling of Ash's story (adventures), I assume alot fans were quite pleased and became quite invested in the original series, which explains why the anime made alot of money in the first showing of the pokemon movie; Mewtwo stikes back.

In addition, the very first episode of the Pokemon anime is still today widely regarded as one of the best. My biggest grip about the mini-series is the story adventure.

 

[Guy100]

Yeah this might be the best possible "copium" one can use to justify this series lol. Probably for the best if I start thinking this way too, cause trying to rationalize this 11 episode series will lead me nowhere.

I see no other rationale reason to explain it. 1 (episode 11) out 11 episodes, that actually gets to the plot, seems rather unnecessary. Episode 11 of this mini-series could have easily been used as the finale to the JN series for episode 137.

 

[Morax]

Either you choose to like a story which revolves around an underdog (Ash) or a story that revolves around a prodigy, Yugi-oh being a prime example.

You can prefer underdogs and still find Ash to be boring and one-dimensional.

 

[Guy100]

You can prefer underdogs and still find Ash to be boring and one-dimensional.

just out of curiosity, what do you find boring and one-dimensional about Ash.

I just assumed that how his character was structured was based on the theme of how the protagonist story was portrayed in the pokemon games, which centered around a love for participating in pokemon battles, stopping evil organizations, and catching lots of pokemon.

I assumed that the writers centered Ash's character based on this in reference to how the fans enjoyed the playthrough the of the early video games; red and blue.

 

[Blue Saturday]

If you want Satoshi's "last" episode watch PM2019. The narrator end says, his adventure continue (off-screen) and if he says they continue they continue.

 

[Morax]

I just assumed that how his character was portrayed was based on the theme of how the protagonist story was portrayed in the pokemon games, which centered around a love for participating in pokemon battles, stopping evil organizations, and catching lots of pokemon

The fact that his character is pretty much just 'being friends with animals' is super lmao

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

That's 100% Boruto vibes (minus the whole son/daughter thing) and the new anime will pretty much be doomed to fail if it's set in the same universe and aims to resolve other characters from the Ash anime. By aimlessly meandering about in these 11 episodes, they'd basically be sabotaging their new series as well if it's set in the same universe and aims to resolve past characters.

Also, an epilogue is something that happens after the finale and usually isn't necessary. The problem here is there was never a finale to begin with so how do you expect an aimless epilogue to be satisfying when there was never a proper conclusion in the first place (Naruto movie, Code Geass movie, the Fullmetal movie after the ending in 2003, etc all had conclusive endings in the anime, and these movies were epilogues).

I don't see how it's Boruto vibes when it's neither a time skip, nor someone who's legacy is an extension of Ash or something which requires old series MCs to be present all the time

Heck resolution of characters can even be done in one small arc not even necessarily involving Ash, such as maybe a contest arc for Dawn, seeing Liko and Roy meet Iris and investigate Unovan legends, seeing a contest idol performance with May/Serena, etc. Nothing too flamboyant or taking over the main story. Im sure small arcs like those time to time won't take away

Anyway yeah I still think the MCs should have gotten their resolution in this series itself. Im just saying why the next series may not be an AU if the priority of the writers was to conclude Ash and not the Ash anime. Coz otherwise it's not like it was too difficult to give endings to other companions.

 

[Ash Ketchum!]

Also, Lapras itself didn't really get any conclusion and frankly was never a priority.

If Greninja could get a whole episode dedicated to it in Journeys, why couldn't Lapras get one? Not only is it Yuyama's favorite Pokemon, it was technically a traveling companion - no different than Cilan, Clemont & Bonnie, Alola Gang, etc. It is a priority in a series giving send-offs to the various companions that shaped Ash's journey. Orange Islands hardly gets referenced.

An aside - funny enough, there are more references to XY in Journeys than XY had to other series/wider continuity. An interesting observation. I'm reminded of this interview where Yajima literally admits to forgetting PROFESSOR OAK until the interviewer reminds him (and then threw him and Delia in the last episode as an apology lol):

Tetsuo Yajima Interview on XY

In the recent edition of Animage there was an interview with Tetsuo Yajima, the director of XY, including some storyboards as well. Here are various interesting tidbits from the recent interview with Yajima: *The kiss scene is indeed meant to be Serena kissing Satoshi, and his reaction to it is...

forums.bulbagarden.net

"The interviewer notes that Okido didn't appear at all outside of episode 3, and that Okido's lecture segment getting replaced with PokeTV when XY&Z started meant that Okido didn't appear at all throughout all of XY&Z (the interview was conducted before XY&Z47 had aired) and asks if there was a reason for this. Yajima confirms this was a complete oversight, not something intentional. Presumably this goes for other callbacks to older series as well."

(I'd say Serena needed another episode too but apparently people think a 30 second hi and bye is good enough).

26 years of TRio and it's likely going to end in a single episode with them getting fired and Giovanni just sitting there unresolved (unless he steps down or gets arrested which is also ridiculous). The Latias "arc" is looking to end in the most generic way possible. Another thing that has bugged me is how Misty, Brock, Cilan and Squirtle found Ash, not Ash actively looking to meet them. There's a difference, but given that I have far more issues with this series, I can let the plot conveniences slide.

I agree that the miniseries should be better written and more conclusive, but what would that even entail? Outside of "What is a Pokemon Master?" (which is really the only real connective tissue over the 25 year span of the anime), what kind of story arcs or major loose ends were there that weren't addressed in Journeys?

Giovanni and Team Rocket

Final 11 episodes. Will the anime wrap up (or do anything) with Giovanni and the larger Team Rocket organization?

forums.serebii.net

^You try and bring up stuff like fighting Giovanni/Team Rocket or finding out who Ash's dad is (something even Ash's English VA is interested in), and lots of people sneer (while somehow taking shipping seriously). What else would've fit into this miniseries?