We've all had that feeling. You're browsing Serebii, and decide to go to the Fan Fiction section. You get there and notice that there's a new thread up. "Oh, a new fic!" you think. "Let's read this and see what it is!" You click on the fic to find... 8 lines of grammatical errors and info dumps. I'm kinda sick of this, and was wondering if anyone else was feeling the same way.
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New Fic Disappointment
- Thread starter Phoopes
- Start date
Gelatino95
Not a tool
Did you just see a fic that caused you to make this thread? You have to remember that some people don't speak English as their first language. Instead of hating on people, just give them a suggestion to help them improve. In your case, tell them to use a spell checker.
Chibi Pika
Stay positive
I don't know, I haven't seen that many fics like that lately. :/ I remember back in the day I used to browse the n00b fics to laugh at them like a jerk, but there aren't very many these days, and those that are tend to have that sort of "you can tell this writer will get better if given the right push" feeling anyway.
But then, I don't usually click on all of the new fic on the top of the forum. I just click on the ones that either have an interesting title, or catch my attention within the first few lines of the mouse-over.
~Chibi~;249;;448;
But then, I don't usually click on all of the new fic on the top of the forum. I just click on the ones that either have an interesting title, or catch my attention within the first few lines of the mouse-over.
~Chibi~;249;;448;
katiekitten
The Compromise
You see, if you post something like this, some ol' fool is going to take it as a shameless chance to plug.
*coughI'vegottenquitehandywiththatoldspellcheckerifIsaysomyselfcoughclickthebannercough*
;D
(I'd say more but I'd come out all preachy. xp)
*coughI'vegottenquitehandywiththatoldspellcheckerifIsaysomyselfcoughclickthebannercough*
;D
(I'd say more but I'd come out all preachy. xp)
Shinymonkey8
Well-Known Member
I try reading new fics when I'm bored, and I'm waiting for some other multi-chapter fics to update. Usually I try the ones with no reviews and leave a detailed review. Sure, most of them are grammatically lacking, but the best thing is when you find a new story, the rare gem that's really good, and you get to follow it through to the end. It pays off for me going through the rough just to get that diamond.
I remember a day when grammar errors, even smidgeonal, warranted fixing... and when you gave advice, people either listened, or were going to be on lockdown. I dunno, I feel that quality from new blood may be suffering... not all newcomers, but I feel like the standard from years ago has dwindled. Perhaps I'm just pessimistic because it's going to be Me Myself and Irene this weekend.
Kutie Pie
"It is my destiny."
I don't see this much on Serebii anymore like I do on FanFiction.net, but that's a different site altogether. The rules state they are strict on the whole grammatical-correct stories and that they need to look like the author actually cared to proof-read. But we all know the most terrible fanfics in the world come from there, and few are ever reported. I suppose they're kept up for the lulz or something.
Here, Serebii's more on the ball with the rules. If it shows someone just doesn't care about their story, it gets locked, or possibly removed from existence. I noticed that more back in the day when I was a new member. Nowadays, I'm seeing more effort. These people want to get their name out, I understand, I feel the same way. They are more willing to listen to their audience and improve upon their writing skills. They know they have that ability to write well, but they want to be told they can.
I'll admit I don't go to the fanfic section here as often as I used to because nothing sounds interesting. But I do try to drop by once-in-a-while to see what there is. I'm actually finding some nice ideas in the works here by new writers, so I might as well help them. It's the least I can do, really. It's rude to have a long-term author just read a newbie's story and not make an effort to critique and give tips. We need a generation to replace us when we leave the forums.
And as I'm writing this, I currently have one story title that keeps nagging at me to click on it and read, so I figure I might as well go ahead and look at it, and see what I think of it.
Here, Serebii's more on the ball with the rules. If it shows someone just doesn't care about their story, it gets locked, or possibly removed from existence. I noticed that more back in the day when I was a new member. Nowadays, I'm seeing more effort. These people want to get their name out, I understand, I feel the same way. They are more willing to listen to their audience and improve upon their writing skills. They know they have that ability to write well, but they want to be told they can.
I'll admit I don't go to the fanfic section here as often as I used to because nothing sounds interesting. But I do try to drop by once-in-a-while to see what there is. I'm actually finding some nice ideas in the works here by new writers, so I might as well help them. It's the least I can do, really. It's rude to have a long-term author just read a newbie's story and not make an effort to critique and give tips. We need a generation to replace us when we leave the forums.
And as I'm writing this, I currently have one story title that keeps nagging at me to click on it and read, so I figure I might as well go ahead and look at it, and see what I think of it.
Well, as a lurker here for maybe six years, with barely more than fifty views on any fiction I post here, I am honestly surprised that anybody reads anything new here from names they don't recognise.
A lot of this thread seems mainly bull in comparison to my experience, imo? But you know, maybe six years experience isn't enough.
Cynicism aside, I think reviewing itself has always been a problem here, and the fact people notice these fics, but don't post is more of a detriment to this website, then any 'newbie' could be. You see problems, and think to make a thread criticising that fact, rather than review the fic itself? Even the most "popular" fiction here gets minimal reviews, by the occasional steady reader, and I can really see members here becoming complacent with posting and not reading.
Honestly, if we need to "fix" anything, we need to fix how we post, read and review.
A lot of this thread seems mainly bull in comparison to my experience, imo? But you know, maybe six years experience isn't enough.
Cynicism aside, I think reviewing itself has always been a problem here, and the fact people notice these fics, but don't post is more of a detriment to this website, then any 'newbie' could be. You see problems, and think to make a thread criticising that fact, rather than review the fic itself? Even the most "popular" fiction here gets minimal reviews, by the occasional steady reader, and I can really see members here becoming complacent with posting and not reading.
Honestly, if we need to "fix" anything, we need to fix how we post, read and review.
Astinus
Well-Known Member
Actually, those tend to be the fics that I look for because I can build a review in my mind before even reading it. Because really, most of those fic writers just need some advice so they're no longer making grammatical errors and can get information out in a better manner.
But I really haven't seen a lot of fics like that here. Maybe one or two, but those could be explained by the author speaking English as a second language.
If you do want to see fics without grammar errors, it might help to review those fics that have them so that the writers don't continue to make them and continue to post fics full of them. Making a new thread that they probably aren't going to see, and that doesn't even give them advice to improve their skills, isn't the way to improve the fics as a whole on the forums. Reviewing and helping authors fix their mistakes is.
It's been over three years since I've reviewed on these forums, but in my experiences elsewhere, that's what I've learned. It's reviewers we need to help the forum improve.
But I really haven't seen a lot of fics like that here. Maybe one or two, but those could be explained by the author speaking English as a second language.
If you do want to see fics without grammar errors, it might help to review those fics that have them so that the writers don't continue to make them and continue to post fics full of them. Making a new thread that they probably aren't going to see, and that doesn't even give them advice to improve their skills, isn't the way to improve the fics as a whole on the forums. Reviewing and helping authors fix their mistakes is.
It's been over three years since I've reviewed on these forums, but in my experiences elsewhere, that's what I've learned. It's reviewers we need to help the forum improve.
Dragonfree
Just me
I can't help being kind of puzzled that this surprises you. New writers are often kids, maybe ten or eleven years old, whose idea of writing a story doesn't include spellcheckers and the like because it's just never occurred to them. You can't be at a forum like this expecting every new fic to be something readworthy; that's just never how a reasonably large writing community is going to work.
ChaosBlizzard
Crit Happens.
I don't mean this as a shameless plug, but I'm kind of on the other side of this coin. I recently started my first attempt at any kind of fan fiction, and I've gotten almost no comments. I've put a ton of time and effort into each chapter (5-6 hours minimum; I spent literally all of my waking day today working on one chapter) and I make absolutely sure there are no grammatical problems, repeated words or unclear sections. I read all my chapters out loud at least 2 or 3 times before I post them, which sometimes takes upwards of 45 minutes per read-through. I've been super diligent about this and tried very hard to strive for a high attention-to-detail and to attain high quality in my writing, but I've only gotten one reply. I posted a Prologue, got one very nice comment, and then I've posted 3 additional chapters with nothing. I have the fourth one written and proofed, and I'm just waiting until morning to actually post it.
I say multiple times in my various author comments that I am writing my fan fiction purely for love of the characters and for fun, and that is true. I love the characters I'm writing about (Bianca and Cheren) and I am having an immense amount of fun writing it, but still... I log on and see no comments time after time and it gets a little depressing.
There are elements of the story I'm uncertain on, but I push on with them because I'm getting no feedback on them and I think personally that they are the proper direction to take them. I fear someone will comment telling me that some aspect of a character or something is bad, but at that point I will have been developing it for several chapters and it will be too late to retcon it.
I dunno... I'm still having fun and I think my work is coming out well, but any comments at all would be nice. It just feels like I am putting a very large amount of work into getting my quality high and my attention to detail fine-toothed, but I'm getting almost no return for it aside from the satisfaction I get out of exploring the characters. I dunno... whatever...
I say multiple times in my various author comments that I am writing my fan fiction purely for love of the characters and for fun, and that is true. I love the characters I'm writing about (Bianca and Cheren) and I am having an immense amount of fun writing it, but still... I log on and see no comments time after time and it gets a little depressing.
There are elements of the story I'm uncertain on, but I push on with them because I'm getting no feedback on them and I think personally that they are the proper direction to take them. I fear someone will comment telling me that some aspect of a character or something is bad, but at that point I will have been developing it for several chapters and it will be too late to retcon it.
I dunno... I'm still having fun and I think my work is coming out well, but any comments at all would be nice. It just feels like I am putting a very large amount of work into getting my quality high and my attention to detail fine-toothed, but I'm getting almost no return for it aside from the satisfaction I get out of exploring the characters. I dunno... whatever...
ChaosBlizzard - that's sadly a common story for many authors on many sites (if not all of them). Only way around that is to basically just keep at it until you attract more attention in the way of reviewers rather than readers. And doing that involves posting about in the section itself (not just in author cafe threads/etc but also giving reviews of your own - some people tend to go read fics of people who have given them reviews) and other places too (say the fanfic club which is kinda inactive again). There's also the review exchange thread sticky to check out or just asking people nicely if you know them well enough here.
At any rate you've...been setting yourself some pretty high standards there given I've taken a glance at your post dates - three chapters and a prologue in three days and a fourth chapter tomorrow is fairly quick, and I'd have been frankly surprised if you got much more than one review from such a (relatively) quick update speed. I would advise at least a few days per chapter at the quickest just to give potential readers more reading time - up to you of course when you want to post stuff but it's generally easier to build a readership if you don't have a very rapid output. ...at any rate I also just noticed you got a second far longer review about two hours ago too, and said reviewer mentions editing in more when he/she has more time to read more, so there you go. =p
As for the thread topic - as said, it's not really surprising as always there'll be a new fic posted by someone new to writing that won't be up to scratch. Basically up to us to point them in the write direction as not many of us were 'okay', let alone good writers when we started off ourselves. =p Heck, I know I wasn't.
At any rate you've...been setting yourself some pretty high standards there given I've taken a glance at your post dates - three chapters and a prologue in three days and a fourth chapter tomorrow is fairly quick, and I'd have been frankly surprised if you got much more than one review from such a (relatively) quick update speed. I would advise at least a few days per chapter at the quickest just to give potential readers more reading time - up to you of course when you want to post stuff but it's generally easier to build a readership if you don't have a very rapid output. ...at any rate I also just noticed you got a second far longer review about two hours ago too, and said reviewer mentions editing in more when he/she has more time to read more, so there you go. =p
As for the thread topic - as said, it's not really surprising as always there'll be a new fic posted by someone new to writing that won't be up to scratch. Basically up to us to point them in the write direction as not many of us were 'okay', let alone good writers when we started off ourselves. =p Heck, I know I wasn't.
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ChaosBlizzard
Crit Happens.
Haha, yeah. This has proved to be a lot more fun than I ever anticipated, so I've been doing it a lot. A lot of writing = a lot of content. I start college on the 6th though, and it will scale down a lot after that point. I've set myself a point in the story I want to try and get myself to before then, so anything I get to after that point but before the 6th is just icing on the cake. It'll ramp down significantly after that date though.
はるひ
:)
To think of it, I remember someone wanting to read one of my writings because it had a character that was like hardcore, but when they read it, yeah the character was hardcore, but it "became another one of my fics" because at the end, the other Pokemon convinced her not to seek vengeance. Talk about disappointing.
Yeah yall may be disappointed because you all have high standards but check out how we feel on this lol
Yeah yall may be disappointed because you all have high standards but check out how we feel on this lol
Speaking as one of those new fic writers, and quite possibly a subject odf this thread,
MY. GRAMMAR. SUCKS.
I proofread, I hit "Speelcheck" in MS Word, but for me, I know what the story is supposed to be saying. I lack some of the ability to separate what is supposed to be written there, and what actually is.
Take chapter 4 of my "World Turns". I've read that thing over and over, it's been up for a week, and I only noticed I typed in "on;y" instead of "only". but I knew what that word was, so I automatically told myself the word was "only" and not "on;y". A form of lysdexia?
If you like new fic, and like the content, you can tell us! I accept reviews that say
MY. GRAMMAR. SUCKS.
I proofread, I hit "Speelcheck" in MS Word, but for me, I know what the story is supposed to be saying. I lack some of the ability to separate what is supposed to be written there, and what actually is.
Take chapter 4 of my "World Turns". I've read that thing over and over, it's been up for a week, and I only noticed I typed in "on;y" instead of "only". but I knew what that word was, so I automatically told myself the word was "only" and not "on;y". A form of lysdexia?
If you like new fic, and like the content, you can tell us! I accept reviews that say
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I envy your muse and burst of inspiration, and also take up the challenge of reading and keeping up to date with your fic. 8'3
Things never really change on here, it seems, though. There is not that many posts in the fanfiction section per day, in updates at least, and this is one of the slowest sections of the forums. What is wrong with us? Are we all just terribly lazy and posting just for the odd, mainly rumored, reader among us?
glover said:
You sound like a friend of mine, except that friend can not spell.
I typo a lot though, without noticing. Mainly when I decide to change what I'm writing at the beginning of the sentence, and leave the odd 'and' and 'the' dotted through my sentences. I also swear my spelling has gotten worse since I got my Mac, and everything I write is spell checked automatically. Even the browser. It makes it a contest, to see if I can beat the browser and spell a difficult word like idiosyncrasies correctly. (that took four tries. stupid hidden 's'.)
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ChaosBlizzard
Crit Happens.
Hey, thanks, bud. I appreciate it. Since I made that post, I've already almost written another chapter. It's up to 13 pages right now, and it'll probably hit 15 by the time I'm done with it, lol.
I just recently got a new computer for school, and when I upgraded, I decided to finally move from IE to Chrome. Within 5 minutes, my new browser taught me that the word is "signature," not "signiture."
JX Valentine
Ever-Discordant
Some of us just don't have time. I've been seeing a lot of guilt-tripping when it comes to "lol why don't you update/review more often," and I'd just like to say that sometimes, life just doesn't give us the option to do much. For example, I submit maybe a couple of reviews a week at the maximum, and my fic updates with one chapter every month or so. There's a reason for that. Over the course of the fic's life, I've been an undergrad with an English major (read: lots of thesis writing), I've held multiple jobs, and now, I'm a graduate student with a day job. By the time I've got all of life's chores out of the way, I just don't have time or energy to devote to fic writing or reviewing. I'm not the only one, either. There's a number of writers on this forum I know are undergrads, so much of their time is taken up by schoolwork as well, if they don't actually work instead/alongside classes. Those of you who have the spare hour to sit down and write a chapter a day? You're lucky. That's all.
And I'm sorry for the rant, but yeah. Failure to write or review every single day is definitely not a mark of laziness.
One thing to keep in mind is that as soon as you post your work to a public forum, it's suddenly not just for yourself but also for an audience. If a number of people are calling you out on your characterization, the wrong mindset would be to sit there and say it's us because we have high standards. The right one would be to consider the idea that we may be trying to tell you something.
Moreover, you can't force us to like your story, as I've told you once not too long ago. You can only take steps to do things in your story that we like. For example, if most people think your characterization is weak, you have two choices. You can either stop trying to present your work to that audience (because it's clear that not that many people like your characterization), or you can work to figure out (via listening to what people say in their reviews) how to improve your characterization. You can't blow off reviews because "we all have high standards" and then wonder why you're not getting positive reviews. Reviewing doesn't work that way.
If you don't mind me making a suggestion, there's really nothing that states you have to post every chapter as soon as it comes out. It's okay to wait a couple of days and post new material at a certain interval. That way, you can continue to work on new chapters while slowing yourself down to a pace at which potential readers can keep up with you. Not only that, but you'll also stall updates so that you don't drop off the face of the earth once school starts.
To be a bit clearer, an egotistical example if no one minds. My fic was up to chapter ten when I started posting here. I didn't post all ten chapters at once because I knew no one would read that kind of thing. Instead, I posted a chapter a week. Not only did this give my audience time to read the latest chapter and comment on it (which meant I had a decent-sized readerbase before I went and left SPPf for a long while due to real life), but it also meant that while one week's chapter might have been eight, I could write chapter twelve and add it to the end of the queue at my own pace. So, the end result is I let my readers keep up with me, and I had months of material despite an intense real-life schedule.
Tl;dr, it's okay to post chapters with days in between instead of posting them when they're hot off the presses. It'd probably be easier for you as a college student if you plan on keeping up with your courses, writing the fic, and maintaining a readerbase all at once.
ChaosBlizzard
Crit Happens.
Yeah, that thought has occurred to me. I sometimes think I should do that, but I can't really justify it in my mind. When the Beatles broke up, either John or George, I forget which one, said some quote about how even though the band had broken up and wouldn't be producing more music together, the back catalog still existed and you could always go back and listen to the old stuff. The same principle seems applicable here; just because a bunch of chapters are up doesn't mean you can't get caught up. I've caught on to lots of online series mid-way through their run, and simply watched or read all the old material in a marathon to catch up. Technically I could write material and then wait to post it, but I just don't feel like it and it doesn't seem like it would make that big of a difference one way or the other. The content is still all there, so frequent updates shouldn't deter new readers.
The whole thing is kind of moot anyway though. At this point, I only plan on getting through 2 or 3 more chapters before school starts next week anyway. At that point it'll ramp down naturally. Thank you for your suggestion though, I appreciate it. I'll stop hijacking the thread now.
JX Valentine
Ever-Discordant
But the principle isn't quite applicable in this case because you're missing the context that would let them say something like that about their own work. Before anything else, you'll want to realize that by the time the Beatles broke up, they were extremely popular with their own massive following. They were a virtually unknown band when they started out, but they gained popularity as their albums came out (at a reasonable rate for a band, no less, which means they had the opportunity to work the audience and grow their following). People joined in and began listening to them by following a word-of-mouth principle. As in, someone said, "Oh, hey! Listen to this group! They're awesome!" So, someone else listened and got hooked. However, they still had those first fans to pass along word and encourage other people to get hooked.
In fanfiction, you do have the same principle... but only with the more popular fanfics. For example, there's a number of people who read Dragonfree's work because they know from other people that Dragonfree is a good author who's worth their time. So, new readers would want to go through thousands of pages of her fic because they feel like hundreds of other followers can't be all wrong. However, if you don't have that readership to begin with, you're not going to get that kind of effect because no one knows you, so no one's going to care as much about you. Sorry to put it like that, but that's the nicest way to put it, really. They get as close to a guarantee that Dragonfree's writing is good by word-of-mouth. When it comes to your fic, they'll just look at your massive numbers of chapters and go, "Well, I really don't even know if it's worth my time because this guy's got tons of chapters and no followers. Why bother with something like that when I could read this two-chapter start-of-a-fic that I can tell right away will float my boat or this massively popular fic that everyone definitely loves?"
Also note that the Beatles did not release all their work in one go. They released it at a reasonable pace to allow potential followers to digest their work. Because of this, they were able to build that snowball of a fan-following that could only grow as their work aged and as word-of-mouth spread. But this ties in with what was mentioned above with how important it is to allow yourself to build a following first and then compare your work to the Beatles when you've got enough of a backing to do that.
In other words, my point is if you want readers, you'll want to first understand how to build a readerbase, which in turn involves understanding how readers work and think. You can't expect them to want to read chapters of material that come out rapidly, so to put it bluntly, you can't really complain that no one's reading your work if you don't work the audience.
That and you probably shouldn't compare yourself to the Beatles.
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