New Gameplay Features/Mechanics Discussion Thread

[goodpeople25]

On hyper training we don't even know exactly how it works yet, and though IVs = gene equivalent (to the majority anyway) hyper training dosen't necessarily mean messing with genes, there are other explanations. Nothing really seems to scream "messes with genes" for me, it dosen't seem like you can get higher than the previous max IVs and every mention seems to say increase stats not lowering them.

 

[DJStarstryker]

You can take it as Pokémon are on Steroids, then.

You are probably alone on this. Because, all we know is that Pokémon have their IV changed, but don't know what kind of Method there will be. What we only know so far, is that there exists an item called Bottle Caps and once you give it, you have the access to the training. We don't know why they have gone above 5-digit system, if their characteristics will change or remain the same, what kind of trainings there are and etcetera.

I don't think willprogresivo is alone. People on Serebii seem to be more accepting of Hyper Training overall than some other video game forums I go to.

Even if it's not realistic, I think it's good Nintendo gave us that option. You're not forced to use Hyper Training, and in fact the old breeding methods are still legit. If you want a perfect IV Pokemon that is less than level 100, breeding is still going to be the best way. Plus we don't even know how hard it'll be to acquire the items to use Hyper Training yet. It may be just as time consuming, if not more so, than breeding.

But I'm always up for more options in video games. Then it can be more fun for more people.

According to a Nintendo survey I was asked for (via email (by NoE)), one of the islands protector Pokémon (probably Tapu Koko), is heavily involved in the story. I also got a video, which is a new trailer, but was only included in the trailer. I'll try to upload it in HD soon, here is the SD video:

Thank you for posting this. Even if those clips were found in other trailers, not all of us have watched every trailer that has come out. I've only seen a few. I appreciated being able to watch it!

 

[Akashin]

Jesus christ.. all these comments about the practicality of IV training while my whole post was about how IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO TRAIN YOUR GENES. I don't care how awesome hyper training is for making the game easy as pie for newbies and people without patience.

You cannot describe IVs as a pokemon's NATURAL characteristics for years and suddenly throw it out the window saying you can increase them by giving some old guy bottle caps.

Yes, you don't HAVE to use hyper training. It doesn't make it any less stupid tho.

Is no else with me on this??

You're going to have to walk me through how the use of Destiny Knot or Power items kept the spirit of IVs being entirely natural alive.

Influencing IVs is already a thing. This is on a more controlled and larger scale, but the general idea isn't new.

 

[IrieFuse]

You can take it as Pokémon are on Steroids, then.

You are probably alone on this. Because, all we know is that Pokémon have their IV changed, but don't know what kind of Method there will be. What we only know so far, is that there exists an item called Bottle Caps and once you give it, you have the access to the training. We don't know why they have gone above 5-digit system, if their characteristics will change or remain the same, what kind of trainings there are and etcetera.

he's not alone on this. I think it's stupid. yeah its much better for the meta which is cool kuz up until now it was really hard to get super solid battle ready Pokemon with perfect IV's and nature and ability and all that. all these little things they're adding make it easier but lore wise it's absolutely stupid. They've always said IV's couldn't be changed because they're the individual values like that's what ur born with. all of a sudden u can just increase them , the method is irrelevant. it's thematically stupid

 

[goodpeople25]

If you view it that exact way than sure i guess, but when it comes to lore I believe their are non-condridicatary plausible alternatives out there depending on the method (mainly wether it effects everything like Hidden Power and breeding or just stats, or to put in differently wether the pikachu now has a 31 HP IV or 5+26..... or however the math would actually work) so yeah thematically the method is important.

If your idea for how IVs and hyper-training interact sounds stupid to you perhaps you might want to try to find a different one? If those wouldn't work for you that's fine but the alternatives would still exist.

 

[Aromatic Mist]

he's not alone on this. I think it's stupid. yeah its much better for the meta which is cool kuz up until now it was really hard to get super solid battle ready Pokemon with perfect IV's and nature and ability and all that. all these little things they're adding make it easier but lore wise it's absolutely stupid. They've always said IV's couldn't be changed because they're the individual values like that's what ur born with. all of a sudden u can just increase them , the method is irrelevant. it's thematically stupid

I'm sorry, but calling it stupid before hearing any explanation for it is a bit presumptuous.

It could be a variety of things, the simplest being that IVs can be exemplified through hard work but only one guy knows the method. Thus, IVs aren't completely set at birth, but they are what most Pokémon will end up sticking with until they can undergo Hyper Training, which may be an extremely rigorous method thus being limited to Level 100 Pokémon, who've shown their endurance, power, and vigor.

 

[TheShinyLunatone]

Jesus christ.. all these comments about the practicality of IV training while my whole post was about how IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO TRAIN YOUR GENES. I don't care how awesome hyper training is for making the game easy as pie for newbies and people without patience.

You cannot describe IVs as a pokemon's NATURAL characteristics for years and suddenly throw it out the window saying you can increase them by giving some old guy bottle caps.

Yes, you don't HAVE to use hyper training. It doesn't make it any less stupid tho.

Is no else with me on this??

I am with you.
I don't think it makes sense. Makes all the hours I've spent breeding perfect mons completely useless. Anyone can just make a perfect t pokemon now.

See what happens when cheaters and hackers do stupid things? Idk. Its stupid but reading other comments I can sort of see he benefits?

 

[Akashin]

he's not alone on this. I think it's stupid. yeah its much better for the meta which is cool kuz up until now it was really hard to get super solid battle ready Pokemon with perfect IV's and nature and ability and all that. all these little things they're adding make it easier but lore wise it's absolutely stupid. They've always said IV's couldn't be changed because they're the individual values like that's what ur born with. all of a sudden u can just increase them , the method is irrelevant. it's thematically stupid

So basically, even if the lore ends up checking out, it's thematically stupid. In spite of the fact that it not making sense lore-wise is your entire problem. O...kay?

We're already fully capable of steering how IVs end up on birth. Is it honestly that much of a step forward to think that science advanced to the point of being able to alter them after birth, to the point that people are plugging their ears and shouting, "La la la la la," to the idea that there may actually be internal logic behind it?

I am with you.
I don't think it makes sense. Makes all the hours I've spent breeding perfect mons completely useless. Anyone can just make a perfect t pokemon now.

See what happens when cheaters and hackers do stupid things? Idk. Its stupid but reading other comments I can sort of see he benefits?

I mean, if you consider having to completely train any Pokemon whose IVs you want to change all the way to 100 as an easy way that devalues breeding, sure.

At the end of the day, it's the same as Super Training. A more accessible method for the younger players, but ultimately far less convenient for the people who already know what they're doing.

 

[misunderstoodhero]

Verslify has already made two videos about this ranting about how much he hates it, which has got to be a sure sign that GameFreak his doing something right IMO.

But seriously, this might be what gets me into competitive battling, assuming the method of earning bottle cops is fun enough. Not even necessarily easier or less time consuming then breeding, just more fun then riding a bike back and forth for hours until you get the perfect mon.

Considering the child friendly "Power of friendship!" values the series has been trying to emphasize for a long time, I really don't care how they explain this either. I've always been annoyed how the series has tried telling us if we share a bond with our Pokemon then we can overcome anything and the reality has been 99% of Pokemon are worthless in competitive battling, either because they're from a weak species or have sub-par IVs. People only battling with the most efficient species is still going to be a thing, but if Hyper Training IS easier/faster I think we'll also see more variety just because people will be more likely to experiment with different mons as it won't be a huge waste of time if it doesn't work out.

All in all, I'm completely for this change.

 

[Cutty]

I actually see the Hyper Training mechanic in a positive way, especially to get good IVs legendaries.
I like how to new gens (VI - VII) make/help the new players more aware of competitive scenes in Pokemon games.

 

[.Aerodactyl.]

I am with you.
I don't think it makes sense. Makes all the hours I've spent breeding perfect mons completely useless. Anyone can just make a perfect t pokemon now.

See what happens when cheaters and hackers do stupid things? Idk. Its stupid but reading other comments I can sort of see he benefits?

I can totally understand how you feel. As a breeder, I was concerned at first that all my hard work was for naught.

But, if you are a breeder like me that has spent hours, then you probably have the same things I do right now: Multiple studs, several natured dittos, access to multiple of the most common moves for egg moves... With the bank, and your knowledge, you're already set to breed and could do it pretty fast.

I don't think hyper training is going to be as fast as you think, I'd be willing to bet money. I think experienced breeders could make a perfect Pokémon faster than hyper training. You also can't add egg moves, or change natures, get the hidden ability, or do any of that before level 100. It's going to be easier than breeding, but less lucrative and likely more time consuming in the long run, especially if you have to buy/find the bottle caps. If it's BP, for every Pokémon you want to fix, you need multiple bottle caps and will be doing run after run through the tower. It's already confirmed that there are different types,as the Japanese site says that Magearna comes with a 'silver' bottle cap, so there are levels.

No, what hyper training does is give an alternative, simple method that's more time consuming and conditional to up IV's, and even helps breeders fix their event legendaries, shines, etc.

I agree that it doesn't make sense...IV's were supposed to be unchangeable. But, I still think it's for the better even if it doesn't make sense, and I just add it to everything else that doesn't make sense. Like why trading riggers some evolutions, why kangaskhan is born a mother, why incense makes certain Pokémon give birth to the first form, etc. It's dumb, but ultimately a great feature

 

[Requiem Aeternam]

I can totally understand how you feel. As a breeder, I was concerned at first that all my hard work was for naught.

But, if you are a breeder like me that has spent hours, then you probably have the same things I do right now: Multiple studs, several natured dittos, access to multiple of the most common moves for egg moves... With the bank, and your knowledge, you're already set to breed and could do it pretty fast.

I don't think hyper training is going to be as fast as you think, I'd be willing to bet money. I think experienced breeders could make a perfect Pokémon faster than hyper training. You also can't add egg moves, or change natures, get the hidden ability, or do any of that before level 100. It's going to be easier than breeding, but less lucrative and likely more time consuming in the long run, especially if you have to buy/find the bottle caps. If it's BP, for every Pokémon you want to fix, you need multiple bottle caps and will be doing run after run through the tower. It's already confirmed that there are different types,as the Japanese site says that Magearna comes with a 'silver' bottle cap, so there are levels.

No, what hyper training does is give an alternative, simple method that's more time consuming and conditional to up IV's, and even helps breeders fix their event legendaries, shines, etc.

I agree that it doesn't make sense...IV's were supposed to be unchangeable. But, I still think it's for the better even if it doesn't make sense, and I just add it to everything else that doesn't make sense. Like why trading riggers some evolutions, why kangaskhan is born a mother, why incense makes certain Pokémon give birth to the first form, etc. It's dumb, but ultimately a great feature

Honestly, I think I'll still be IV breeding for my Pokemon and limiting Hyper Training to shinies and legendaries. Considering we have to level up Pokemon to 100 for Hyper Training, that alone will be a time consuming process, even more so than breeding for the IVs because we don't yet know how easy levelling Pokemon will be. Without Super Secret Bases with Lv100 Blissey, Lucky Eggs and max level EXP O-Powers, it certainly won't be a quick process. We don't know how easy Bottle Caps will be to get either. I personally suspect BP prizes.

 

[Thepowaofhax]

he's not alone on this. I think it's stupid. yeah its much better for the meta which is cool kuz up until now it was really hard to get super solid battle ready Pokemon with perfect IV's and nature and ability and all that. all these little things they're adding make it easier but lore wise it's absolutely stupid. They've always said IV's couldn't be changed because they're the individual values like that's what ur born with. all of a sudden u can just increase them , the method is irrelevant. it's thematically stupid

Not to burst your bubble, but IVs in Gen 6 are already heavily influenced by a simple knot and genetic engineering is still a factor. They could easily say this was another scenario like Samus in Metroid Fusion. To make her immune to X-Parasites, they changed her DNA through some sort of machine/program. This DNA change was by splicing her DNA with Metroid DNA. Nothing stops Pokemon, which has always been more scientifically based than most monster-catching RPGs, to just say this is a new machine that can splice the DNA of living Pokemon with other Pokemon specimens who are compatible.

 

[lemoncatpower]

Not to burst your bubble, but IVs in Gen 6 are already heavily influenced by a simple knot and genetic engineering is still a factor. They could easily say this was another scenario like Samus in Metroid Fusion. To make her immune to X-Parasites, they changed her DNA through some sort of machine/program. This DNA change was by splicing her DNA with Metroid DNA. Nothing stops Pokemon, which has always been more scientifically based than most monster-catching RPGs, to just say this is a new machine that can splice the DNA of living Pokemon with other Pokemon specimens who are compatible.

great use of the metroid similarity,
honestly I completely agree with you, and I honestly think we have that coming in the future for us either way

 

[willprogresivo]

How does the Destiny Knot in ANY way contradict the notion of IVs being genes? It passes down a pokemon's genes to its offspring. Makes perfect sense in regard to the concept of IVs being the Individual Values of a pokemon, its genes, while EVs are traineable Effort Values, its skills.

I get that you mean that it's an item, and thus comparable to how Hyper Training will affect IVs... but the key difference is that one is about passing down genes, which is how nature works, and the other one is changing someone's genes... after they turn 100 years old (let's assume for a second that L100 pokemon are "old").

Makes no sense.

 

[Thepowaofhax]

How does the Destiny Knot in ANY way contradict the notion of IVs being genes? It passes down a pokemon's genes to its offspring. Makes perfect sense in regard to the concept of IVs being the Individual Values of a pokemon, its genes, while EVs are traineable Effort Values, its skills.

I get that you mean that it's an item, and thus comparable to how Hyper Training will affect IVs... but the key difference is that one is about passing down genes, which is how nature works, and the other one is changing someone's genes... after they turn 100 years old (let's assume for a second that L100 pokemon are "old").

Makes no sense.

So you are implying a simple piece of string will determine a biological creatures' genes? If a Pokemon's genes are so heavily influenced by a piece of red string, it is only obvious gene splicing would be incredibly easy on such specimens.

Nature doesn't make you pass down genes from holding a piece of string. That is not how nature works.

Edit: Also, that was a strawman. I said that the destiny knot and the aforementioned scenario in Metroid could easily point to gene splicing, you took it as "contradicting the notion of IVs = genes."

 

[clbgolden12]

How does the Destiny Knot in ANY way contradict the notion of IVs being genes? It passes down a pokemon's genes to its offspring. Makes perfect sense in regard to the concept of IVs being the Individual Values of a pokemon, its genes, while EVs are traineable Effort Values, its skills.

I get that you mean that it's an item, and thus comparable to how Hyper Training will affect IVs... but the key difference is that one is about passing down genes, which is how nature works, and the other one is changing someone's genes... after they turn 100 years old (let's assume for a second that L100 pokemon are "old").

Makes no sense.

Again, we still don't even know how Hyper Training will work in-game. It could be the Pokémon tapping into its hidden strength, not going in and rearranging the Pokémon's DNA.

Also, it's been shown in the anime that age =/= level.

 

[DarkerShining]

First of all, I'm curious as to how the Global Link will function after it has been set up for Gen VII. Will the Pokémile system still be in place? Will all the games still be there? I'm really curious, particularly with the whole "host your own Battle Tournament" feature they'll be adding.

Then there's Hyper Training. When I first learned it was a way to adjust IVs, my initial reaction was "Huh? They're really going to do that?". Seems they're just going bigger with each new Gen. Super Training made it much easier to keep track of EVs, and now they're even going for adjusting IVs? Once the fact had sunk in, the more I've been thinking about the concept of Hyper Training, the more excited I get as I consider the possibilities this might open. Really want to know more about hwo exactly it'll work. Looking forward to learning more about these games!

 

[pokefreakceetje]

First of all, I'm curious as to how the Global Link will function after it has been set up for Gen VII. Will the Pokémile system still be in place? Will all the games still be there? I'm really curious, particularly with the whole "host your own Battle Tournament" feature they'll be adding.

Then there's Hyper Training. When I first learned it was a way to adjust IVs, my initial reaction was "Huh? They're really going to do that?". Seems they're just going bigger with each new Gen. Super Training made it much easier to keep track of EVs, and now they're even going for adjusting IVs? Once the fact had sunk in, the more I've been thinking about the concept of Hyper Training, the more excited I get as I consider the possibilities this might open. Really want to know more about hwo exactly it'll work. Looking forward to learning more about these games!

I guess these are the also subjects of the NoE survey, which includes even more stuff (mechanics). If others received the mail with survey, they can confirm.

 

[willprogresivo]

Oh. My. God.

I'm not talking about the realism of holding an item. Most things in pokemon have no realism to them whatsoever. A lot of pokemon don't even have hands so they can't even held items.

If you want to deconstruct the franchise for realism, then let's shut down the forum and burn all our cartidges because it does not hold up to scrutiny.

The thing is: even if holding a piece of string shouldn't change how genes are passed down: IVs are still something a pokemon is BORN with. Hyper Training 100% CHANGES that.

It makes no sense, no matter how other things in the franchise also don't make sense.

Again, we still don't even know how Hyper Training will work in-game. It could be the Pokémon tapping into its hidden strength, not going in and rearranging the Pokémon's DNA.

Also, it's been shown in the anime that age =/= level.

Pokemon are born with a set of individual values. Any post birth chaning of these values is the equivalent of chaning one's genes after living your full life.

Seriously, dude? You think I compared a pokemon's level with a human being's age because of the anime? I compared it because they are simply EQUIVALENT. Not because of an anime for children. Because if common sense.

Pokemon don't have ages, they only have levels. So after being born, the only measure we've got of change IN time of a pokemon is leveling up. Changing IVs of a pokemon after they leveled up to L100 is the equivalent of saying a human changing their genes when they turn 100 years old. Not too hard a concept to grasp yo.