New Item: Assault Vest General Discussion

[KillerDraco]

I might slap it on delphox. delphox does have relatively high special deffence.

I feel like this is perhaps the biggest misconception about Assault Vest, the notion of "It has high special defense, so put an assault vest on it". Yes, putting it on something bulky rather than something frail is usually the way to go, but at the same time, an Assault Vest user needs to have some degree of power and coverage in order to threaten opponents, given it can't boost its stats or utilize support moves. Things that rely on non-attacking moves just rely have problems with Assault Vest. And in Delphox's case, it really finds itself missing the extra power of Calm Mind, which also boosts its Special Defense as well. Not only that but it forgoes surprise moves like Will-o-Wisp or Switcheroo. It doesn't help that Delphox is physically frail, and its physical weaknesses, such as Rock, Ground, Waterfall, and Pursuit, are all pretty common as well. The latter is particularly troubling as something like Tyranitar has no trouble switching into Assault Vest Tyranitar, given it doesn't have to fear Will-O-Wisp or Switcheroo, and Pursuit trap it.

 

[The Imposter]

Assault Vest Slowbro is better since its defense is already high while that SpD needs some help... only thing is... you cant use curse or amnesia

The issue here isn't Curse/Amnesia; those moves are crap on Slowbro. The main thing missed here is Slack Off (and possibly Toxic). The lack of recovery is slightly mitigated by the fact that the bro has Regenerator, meaning that it can switch out and gain a third of its health back. Hence why I think Slowbro and Slowking are especially viable Assault Vest users.

 

[jesusfreak94]

Of the two, Slowking is probably the better Assault Vest user. Unlike Slowbro, Slowking is naturally built as a special tank and Assault Vest only helps it to do that more effectively. Slowking also has another little advantage with Dragon Tail, which gives it a support move that can actually work with the Assault Vest. Slowbro, on the other hand, is built to be a physical tank, and Assault Vest doesn't help that. Slowbro's natural talents involve taking on physical sweepers such as Terrakion and Crunch-less (Mega) Lucario, and in order to do that to the best of its ability, Slowbro needs Slack Off and Leftovers to help it tank as many physical hits as possible. Assault Vest makes it an okay mixed tank, but it really takes away from what makes Slowbro so attractive in the first place. Slowking can actually abuse the Assault Vest far more effectively since its biggest niche is taking on special sweepers such as Keldeo and Landorus-I, and Assault Vest makes that even easier. For example, a 248/0 Assault Vest Slowking only takes 31 - 36.6% damage from Specs Keldeo's HP Ghost, and most to all of that can be healed off just by switching out and recovering via Regenerator.

So yeah, I'd much rather use Slowking as an Assault Vest user and leave Slowbro to its physical walling skills.

 

[ModelT]

What about on something like Mienshao, as a defencive scout, with Regenerator, and moves like Drain Punch, U-Turn, Fake Out, and either Payback or Knock Off (If you're trying to tempt a switch into maybe a Gengar or a psychic). Payback would be good on tempted switches, and Knock Off great (on a scout at least) for destorying all your opponents items.

>.> I may try this set up, see if it can't work on any item (maybe even Leftovers...)

 

[The Imposter]

What about on something like Mienshao, as a defencive scout, with Regenerator, and moves like Drain Punch, U-Turn, Fake Out, and either Payback or Knock Off (If you're trying to tempt a switch into maybe a Gengar or a psychic). Payback would be good on tempted switches, and Knock Off great (on a scout at least) for destorying all your opponents items.

>.> I may try this set up, see if it can't work on any item (maybe even Leftovers...)

The issue here is that Mienshao has comparable bulk to Spinda. Even at +1 Special Defense, it dies to a light breeze.

The way I see it, Assault Vest is meant for bulky offensive tanks that didn't use too many support moves anyway and can put the Special Defense boost to good use. Metagross and Goodra, for example, are great Assault Vest users. Both have high-power attacks they can use while sponging hits and a good typing to take special hits.

 

[The Federation]

People forget that Reuniclus gets Regenerator, which makes him a candidate. Also, he's already bulky af, so you could get away with running modest or bold and maxing SpA either way. He could tank hits, return fire with extremely powerful coverage, then retreat to do it again.

The only problem is that he loses magic guard, which makes him a target for t-wave and spore. Other than those moves, he has nothing to worry about and can function as a pivot quite well.

 

[ghost_dog97]

People forget that Reuniclus gets Regenerator, which makes him a candidate. Also, he's already bulky af, so you could get away with running modest or bold and maxing SpA either way. He could tank hits, return fire with extremely powerful coverage, then retreat to do it again.

The only problem is that he loses magic guard, which makes him a target for t-wave and spore. Other than those moves, he has nothing to worry about and can function as a pivot quite well.

your right on your last 2 sentences... magic guard is screaming for life orb to be used with it... regenerator is good but reuniclus also has recover :/

 

[Excitable Boy]

regenerator is good but reuniclus also has recover :/

That's not usable with Assault Vest, though, hence the need to use a different method of recovery.

 

[MuhFugginMoose]

Ya know who I've found a very good user of AV?
Chesnaught. At least the set I've been using.

Adamant
Bulletproof
200 HP / 174 Atk / 136 SpD
- Power Up Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge

With those four moves he gets perfect neutral coverage. And although PuP is pretty weak, it gives him a small way to set up Attack boosts.

Calcs:
[spoil]252 SpA Mega Gengar Dazzling Gleam vs. 200 HP / 136 SpD Assault Vest Chesnaught: 154-182 (41.9 - 49.5%)
252 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 200 HP / 136 SpD Assault Vest Chesnaught: 194-230 (52.8 - 62.6%)
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 200 HP / 136 SpD Assault Vest Chesnaught: 283-335 (77.1 - 91.2%)
[/spoil]

Make the right predictions, and you could retaliate and leave them in the red, or OHKO.

Calcs:
[spoil]176+ Atk Chesnaught Seed Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 220-261 (87.6 - 103.9%)
176+ Atk Chesnaught Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 560-660 (180 - 212.2%)
176+ Atk Chesnaught Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 238-280 (91.1 - 107.2%)[/spoil]

It's been working really well for me. It's a bit unexpected.

 

[ghost_dog97]

That's not usable with Assault Vest, though, hence the need to use a different method of recovery.

*facepalms* oops sorry, forgot this was assault vest only. Now that you mention it, idk if reuniclus would be viable for it anyway since a lot of its moves are support based (simple beam, trick, recover, etc.)... something like delphox with fire blast/flamethrower, shadow ball, grass knot/solarbeam, and psychic/psyshock is awesome for an assault vest coming off a base 100 SpDef.

 

[KillerDraco]

*facepalms* oops sorry, forgot this was assault vest only. Now that you mention it, idk if reuniclus would be viable for it anyway since a lot of its moves are support based (simple beam, trick, recover, etc.)... something like delphox with fire blast/flamethrower, shadow ball, grass knot/solarbeam, and psychic/psyshock is awesome for an assault vest coming off a base 100 SpDef.

Except no Calm Mind or Will-o-Wisp limit Delphox's usefulness to a degree, and it's still ravaged by physical attacks. Personally I'd just as soon utilize Calm Mind on Delphox, since it gets the special bulk in addition to more firepower.

That said Delphox isn't particularly good as a whole but that's another story altogether.

 

[The Imposter]

*facepalms* oops sorry, forgot this was assault vest only. Now that you mention it, idk if reuniclus would be viable for it anyway since a lot of its moves are support based (simple beam, trick, recover, etc.)... something like delphox with fire blast/flamethrower, shadow ball, grass knot/solarbeam, and psychic/psyshock is awesome for an assault vest coming off a base 100 SpDef.

....Until you see that horrible Defense stat. Assault Vest is only useful when physical attackers don't want to attack you. Otherwise, they just target your unboosted Defense and down she goes. Don't forget that Delphox specifically uses a lot of support moves (Wish, Substitute, Calm Mind, Will-o-the-Wisp), so she's losing a decent portion of her usable movepool.

EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[ghost_dog97]

Except no Calm Mind or Will-o-Wisp limit Delphox's usefulness to a degree, and it's still ravaged by physical attacks. Personally I'd just as soon utilize Calm Mind on Delphox, since it gets the special bulk in addition to more firepower.

That said Delphox isn't particularly good as a whole but that's another story altogether.

what would I get rid of to put calm mind on delphox?

another viable assault vest user would be avalugg, although it cancels out mirror coat w/ sturdy

 

[MuhFugginMoose]

....Until you see that horrible Defense stat.

That's why I feel AV is amazing on Chesnaught. With his diverse movepool, and amazing Defense, slapping an AV on him only made sense. Watching him live SE Psychics from a LO Alakazam is always fun.

 

[The Imposter]

what would I get rid of to put calm mind on delphox?

another viable assault vest user would be avalugg, although it cancels out mirror coat w/ sturdy

Avalugg has been considered before, but people have found that the lack of recover and average special bulk even with assault vest makes avalugg too susceptible to repeated hits. It would be the equivalent of taunting a worse skarmory and boosting its special defense a bit. The tradeoff isnt good enough.

That's why I feel AV is amazing on Chesnaught. With his diverse movepool, and amazing Defense, slapping an AV on him only made sense. Watching him live SE Psychics from a LO Alakazam is always fun.

I agree that chesnaught makes a good assault vest user; it has the strength, bulk, and coverage that marks a good assault vest user. In chesnaught's case there is the looming threat of spiky shield that deters physical attackers somewhat.

 

[MuhFugginMoose]

I agree that chesnaught makes a good assault vest user; it has the strength, bulk, and coverage that marks a good assault vest user. In chesnaught's case there is the looming threat of spiky shield that deters physical attackers somewhat.

That's why I never understood why people slap AV on things that already have good SpD. Cool, it has good SpD normally, and you made it better. . . It's a shame Physical attacks are a thing. . .

 

[KillerDraco]

That's why I never understood why people slap AV on things that already have good SpD. Cool, it has good SpD normally, and you made it better. . . It's a shame Physical attacks are a thing. . .

More or less. An AV user needs to be able to threaten with its unboosted offensive presence, and most Pokemon (but not all) that tend to be specially bulky are lacking in offensive presence.

It doesn't help that most specially defensive Pokemon tend to rely on support attacks as well.

 

[The Imposter]

More or less. An AV user needs to be able to threaten with its unboosted offensive presence, and most Pokemon (but not all) that tend to be specially bulky are lacking in offensive presence.

It doesn't help that most specially defensive Pokemon tend to rely on support attacks as well.

This is why I prefer using Pokemon that have above-average defense to discourage the foe from using physical attacks and a good enough special defense to benefit from the boost. Goodra is an exception, because that special bulk is titanic and gooey deters physical attackers.

 

[MuhFugginMoose]

^ That is the only exception. Gooey Goodra.
But these AV T-Tars running around make no sense to me. In sand it has ridiculous SpD. What is the point in boosting it more than it already is?

 

[The Imposter]

^ That is the only exception. Gooey Goodra.
But these AV T-Tars running around maake no sense to me. In sand it has ridiculous SpD. What is the point in boosting it more than it alread is?

I guess it has good enough physical bulk as it is...? I've used AV ttar before and it is horribly subpar. The amount of physical weaknesses it has makes its physical bulk a moot point. And when you consider that it really appreciates sneaky pebbles and the occasional boosting move, AV ttar is pretty mediocre.