New Kirby series thread (25th anniversary coming up)

[Bolt the Cat]

if you compare the amount of levels it's still shorter but it's not entire worlds shorter. It's like..7 levels? Or something like that, not sure how it accounts for Robobot/TD/RTD putting bosses as their own stage vs SA giving a level with them, but shorter yeah.

And "only" 2 years later doesn't mean anything. There were 2 years between Triple Deluxe & Robobot, so I doubt it was rushed.

That's still bad considering that Star Allies is a console game on next gen hardware, it's supposed to feel bigger, not smaller. Not really feeling the "next gen" in this game, it's abundantly clear this was a cheap, low effort affair.

Definitely want to see the next game be more ambitious than this. I'm not particularly bothered by the repetition in the RtDL/TD/PR/SA series (it's still miles better than the likes of NSMB in terms of changing things up), but it would be nice to see something new and exciting out of this series. Like, you know, an actual, full retail, main series 3D Kirby game? Kirby's overdue for a legitimate 3D game.

 

[R_N]

That's still bad considering that Star Allies is a console game on next gen hardware, it's supposed to feel bigger, not smaller. Not really feeling the "next gen" in this game, it's abundantly clear this was a cheap, low effort affair.

Definitely want to see the next game be more ambitious than this. I'm not particularly bothered by the repetition in the RtDL/TD/PR/SA series (it's still miles better than the likes of NSMB in terms of changing things up), but it would be nice to see something new and exciting out of this series. Like, you know, an actual, full retail, main series 3D Kirby game? Kirby's overdue for a legitimate 3D game.

I do agree it could have been more ambitious but nothing about the game seems like a cheap low effort thing.

I could see them trying out a 3D kirby next. They've definitely been slowly trying things out. Blowout Blast is the obvious use case there, but that battle arena game is also in 3D in at least some of its sections. And you can kind of see it here a bit, considering the final world is a full 3D space complete with rotating camera

 

[Ambyssin]

That's still bad considering that Star Allies is a console game on next gen hardware, it's supposed to feel bigger, not smaller. Not really feeling the "next gen" in this game, it's abundantly clear this was a cheap, low effort affair.

Definitely want to see the next game be more ambitious than this. I'm not particularly bothered by the repetition in the RtDL/TD/PR/SA series (it's still miles better than the likes of NSMB in terms of changing things up), but it would be nice to see something new and exciting out of this series. Like, you know, an actual, full retail, main series 3D Kirby game? Kirby's overdue for a legitimate 3D game.

It's a good point. While I agree with R_N that it doesn't seem like a "budget game" or that they cheaped out, I cannot deny that the variety of level scenery feels relatively low compared to past Kirby games. Everything used in worlds 1-3 is repeated in the fourth world, which is a real shame. Also, I know it's been a tradition (for better or worse) for the post-GCN Kirby games to copy-paste music from older titles, but it feels particularly egregious in this game, considering the ratio of EX stages to normal stages is far higher than what we got in the 3DS games. Not to mention...

Spoiler: Bonus Mode

The Ultimate Choice doesn't give us any original music for the standard boss re-fights. Instead, it either uses the normal boss theme, or uses recycled tracks from the 3DS Kirby games. That, to me, does feel like a bit of a rush job on HAL's part... which is particularly strange, because if the end credits are to be believed, there was a 3rd composer besides Jun Ishikawa and Hirokazu Ando this time around. And given just how many recycled tracks there are, I can't help but be disappointed some of them aren't at least remixes.

 

[Auraninja]

I've actually played this game with a group of three playing Gamecube controllers with it (I should get a pro controller someday).
I haven't played a lot, but it was fun so far. I doubt much of it will disappoint me anyway.

Some Kirby games are considered better than others, but I consider Kirby as having a good track record.

 

[R_N]

Aaand beat it. Very enjoyable, I found the Jambastian & SFH in particular to have nothing but great levels. The bosses too suddenly got pretty dangerous, even with the allies on deck.

As for the finale in particular

Spoiler

Void Terminus is a pretty cool looking boss and hi hello i have questions??? about the true form????????? Hello????? Do I need to buy an artbook i will do it, please.....
It also further convicnes me that we're going to get a full 3D kirby at some point. That was a pretty interesting gameplay decision to go with for the final boss.

Only downsides to the entire fight:
-a bit weird how they included the bit about freeing the 4 generals, but they did not take part in anything and didn't get even a final background cameo like Susie did.
-the music for the final clash was way too calm and subdued! I need more bombast! TD & RB all got this perfectly so not sure what happened here, especially since the actual void fight music was fantastic
-Speaking of, the final clash really needed more to it? Visually, I mean. Triple Deluxe & Robobot both did significantly better on the "hell yeah!" scale

but the final cutscene was pretty cute and i loved al lthe friend killing the void. i love Literal Power of Friendship.

I think I'll let it simmer a bit before going for the time attack mode or the arena. Though I'll need to remember to go back into the main story to complete the post game level.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Spoiler

-a bit weird how they included the bit about freeing the 4 generals, but they did not take part in anything and didn't get even a final background cameo like Susie did.

[SPOIL]Yeah, the generals don't really do much in the story period. They just show up looking for Jamba Hearts, fight you, leave, get sacrificed to Void Termina, and then you never see them again. I was hoping you'd at least unlock them as Dream Friends at the end of the story, but you don't even get that.[/SPOIL]

 

[Ambyssin]

[SPOIL]Maybe that ambiguous stuff at the end means the generals will be a future Dream Friends pack? Wishful thinking, I suppose. XD[/SPOIL]

Not sure if this stuff's spoilers, but putting it there just in case.

 

[R_N]

So that final speech from Hyness is fairly...interesting

Spoiler

We are the masters of a power driven to the far reaches of the universe, and we have but one desire! Can one such as you possibly fathom how dearly we have clung to this dream across the aeons? How could you! You couldn’t! Never ever ever! We who once faced those who were in such fear of our power that they sealed us away and banished us to the edge of the galaxy! US! As if THAT loveliness wasn’t enough, they tried to erase our very existence from history! RUDE! Only through our magic were we able to overcome their science and achieve great prosperity! We alone were responsible for stopping that repulsive nightmare of a galactic crisis, yet this is how you repay us! This won’t stand! It won’t be forgiven! It won’t be forgotten! Never ever EVER! Those who called us mad, are you listening? You left us at the edge of the galaxy to be forgotten, then went along your merry way, probably living somewhere pretty and peaceful![then he goes even crazier about the dark lord]

Spoiler

The science bits and "nightmare of galactic crisis" in particular are pretty interesting. I think the general consensus is the crisis was Galacta Knight (or maybe Morpho Knight)
I wonder if the scienceeee...i dont know, tribe, I guess, might be magolor's ancestors, or at least the creators of the lor starcutter and galactic stars.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

[SPOIL]Maybe that ambiguous stuff at the end means the generals will be a future Dream Friends pack? Wishful thinking, I suppose. XD[/SPOIL]

Not sure if this stuff's spoilers, but putting it there just in case.

[SPOIL]No, I think you might be right. I do think we'll get them as DLC. Still though, I wish we'd have gotten some kind of new Dream Friend for beating the game. You basically get all of them by the end of the second world and that's it. [/SPOIL]

 

[Genos]

Beat the game last night.

Spoiler: thoughts

The Big Void Termina battle felt awesome. Reminds me of Star Fox (or a little known game called Sin & Punishment back in the N64 days). The last boss threw off guard seeing it as a Ball with a Kirby-like face. HAL sure loves to make bizarre final bosses. I did enjoy the dialogue of Hyness, Francisca, Flamberge, and Zan. Lots of jokes they put on these bosses.

The music felt great to listen to throughout the game. I agree with R_N the last boss battle music was weak. Should've been a lot creepy as the final form was. As you know the nostalgic of old music gets me every time. Hearing multiples version of Greens Greens, a remix of Squeak Squad and Crystal Shards.

Getting puzzles pieces felt repetitive but so I far I unlocked 3 sets. I don't think I'm going to complete the rest. I already got the colorful ones out of the way.

The last secret level unlocked after beating the main story is probably the greatest nostalgic trip ever yet. I want HAL to top that for the next installment. With a proper 3D game design because I think now is the time for a fully 3D Kirby game.

The game did felt short but I had fun nevertheless. Since the game is heavy MP style I wanna try it with people. I hope the 4 co-op gameplay comes back in the future.

I've actually played this game with a group of three playing Gamecube controllers with it (I should get a pro controller someday).

The pro controller is really great to use. Type B is my preferred control style.

 

[Rakurai]

I hope they retain the whole Helper system in future console Kirby games , though like some others have mentioned, I didn't really like how heavily the game was designed around multiplayer at times.

In any case, I finished the story recently, but I look forward to pushing each ability to its limits in the other modes.

 

[R_N]

I failed to let it simmer and jumped into the 2 modes
arena, even at level 5, really starts to show its teeth when you go in solo. The "final" boss of it can be pretty tricky to deal with, even with a full party. Incidentally for the amount of time you put into it i feel the puzzle rewards should be way higher.

Spoiler: the other mode

I've been going through with Staff and I think the most interesting aspect of this are the unique bits. There's been several entirely original bits thrown in here, mostly for fight challenges, but some of the friend stuff is new too. Like the world 1 train bit is totally new and the world 3 train was changed up considerably.

Having Twin Kracko be the check point for World 4 is a bit odd, too.

I like the power up system, it's a nice way to encourage speeding through side areas and I enjoy the UNLIMITED POWER that comes with.

The ability-focused modes also help you appreciate how each abiltiy is different. Like that's always been a thing, but being FORCED into a single ability makes you appreciate how things like Sword have things like safe air attacks while Staff only has its forward/downward/upward thrusts.

Speaking of staff, it's pretty cool how the elements change up the staff combos. Almost threw myself into a pit because wind staff's giant leap threw me off.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I hope they retain the whole Helper system in future console Kirby games , though like some others have mentioned, I didn't really like how heavily the game was designed around multiplayer at times.

Agreed, it's a good system for co-op and I hope they stick with it. As far as the multiplayer, I didn't really mind it all that much but what I would like is for the AI to not do as much of the work for you. There are multiple instances, especially in boss battles, where you can just sit back and let the game play itself.

 

[Rakurai]

I feel like the whole reason they included those damage power-ups in Guest Star was to make it so that you tear through bosses so quickly that it scarcely matters how much your helpers decide to hit them.

Having to rely heavily on them for speed kills would add an unhealthy amount of RNG to a speedrun, as I've found them to be very inconsistent about how aggressive they are.

 

[Ambyssin]

Yeah, you can sit back and let the AI friends tackle the bosses... but then you'd best be prepared to sit there dodging or guarding for a little while. I definitely felt like, even with a full team of friends, I was dishing out most of the damage to the bosses. The friends were at their most useful when providing elemental weaknesses against the bosses that have them. Again, the big issue with Star Allies is that its levels are designed around co-op, whereas Return to Dreamland is designed so that every challenge can be accomplished with just Kirby and there are some tighter platforming sections where having buddies could actually trip you up.

If HAL really wants to do 4-player co-op again and build levels around it, they really need to commit to it. Practically every puzzle revolved around "Hey, here's a friend ability, use it to do this thing and get your reward." Even by Kirby standards, that's really basic. And while it eliminates the need to redo a level if you screw something up, it doesn't feel all that rewarding. I wanted to see puzzles that required multiple Friend Abilities, or ones that required you to keep certain friends alive so you could use their powers. And the big abilities like Friend Bridge and Friend Train felt underutilized, so integrate more stuff like that. And maybe work the elements into the bosses to a greater degree. A Miracle Matter type of boss that can change its element on the fly would've been perfect for a game like this.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

And the big abilities like Friend Bridge and Friend Train felt underutilized, so integrate more stuff like that.

What else can they really do with those? Friend Bridge offers little more than "guide the thing" and Friend Train is basically just Friend Circle with a wall climbing ability.

And maybe work the elements into the bosses to a greater degree. A Miracle Matter type of boss that can change its element on the fly would've been perfect for a game like this.

Especially since Miracle Matter's AI was designed so that if you went in with a copy ability that element would end up appearing less frequently. That would make a good/bad arena boss, imagine the kind of hax they could pull off with a boss basically designed to counter your team.

 

[Ambyssin]

What else can they really do with those? Friend Bridge offers little more than "guide the thing" and Friend Train is basically just Friend Circle with a wall climbing ability.

I guess I meant expand on it. They could've added more Friend Bridge puzzles, possibly with more layers or, say, different Key Dees appearing at different times. As for the Friend Train, it was basically an on-rails section. Guest Star mode had the right idea, with having level set pieces moving around, or throwing obstacles that require you to react quickly. I'd have liked to see more of that.

Especially since Miracle Matter's AI was designed so that if you went in with a copy ability that element would end up appearing less frequently. That would make a good/bad arena boss, imagine the kind of hax they could pull off with a boss basically designed to counter your team.

Well, people are complaining the Ultimate Choice is too easy, so...

 

[R_N]

I thought that the friend bridge was actually the most realized one next to the wheel, honestly? The puzzles weren't necessarily hard, but it showed up frequently and did require more timing as it went on. I liked the puzzle where you had to carefully bounce the guy wall to wall from the top to the bottom and there's another one that had you juggle 2 of them and try to get them tiemd right.

Friend Train was the least used, though the like 3 unique ones in the extra mode sort of shows how that could work, with more invovled terrains. Still needed a bit more to it, though, the wheel sections had to worry about pits but even if you missed a jump as the train you'd just go to a different area with less goods.

 

[Rakurai]

I'm wondering if they're going include a "weapon" type helper in every batch of new helpers that's released, since Marx is apparently able to absorb elements, which are used for his wing arrows and spit bombs (As far they've shown). It's also reflected by having the hexagons in his wings shift to the color of whatever element he has, which is a nice touch.

 

[R_N]

I'm wondering if they're going include a "weapon" type helper in every batch of new helpers that's released, since Marx is apparently able to absorb elements, which are used for his wing arrows and spit bombs (As far they've shown). It's also reflected by having the hexagons in his wings shift to the color of whatever element he has, which is a nice touch.

I'm guessing most will. Gooey does since part of his moveset uses Stone.
In the same fashion I bet whoever in the DL2 crew gets stone will be able to get the paint, water & ice enhancements and since Coo gets Cutter i wouldn't be surprsied if that can get the usual elements as well. Even if they are feathers.

Thinking over the possible suspects, I suppose this wouldn't be as feasible for someone like Adeline (Artist) or Taranza (Spider), but they'd probably get additions to their movesets that could use the combo system.


Thought this was interesting, the opening week sales for this game were pretty good!

Actually the thing more surprising here is that Kirby 64 was the third best opening kirby game. Crazy, since iirc it was very late in the N64's life and the N64 wasn't really known for a big user base.