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New Mega Evolutions Discussion Thread

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Psynergy

Strong Winds
Staff member
Super Mod
Flygon is extremely popular, probably the favorite from hoenn, it's not "far behind charizard" not even close.

Rayquaza? Blaziken? Salamence? While Flygon is definitely a fan favorite in Hoenn, he really can't compare to the popularity of those three (well okay, maybe Salamence), let alone Charizard. If we want to get to talking about Pokemon getting two Megas, the first two are the only ones that were really popular enough to justify two Megas in Hoenn. I like Flygon, but Flygon getting two Megas would kind of come out of nowhere.
 

Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
Yeah sure, Raichu is usable too, even in OU, that doesn't mean it doesn't need anything. But you're saying that Salamence and Garchomp needed the mega and Flygon doesn't, that's.... nonsense tbh.

Oh and, "usable spa" not really, not anymore. It's just "usable fire blast against ferrothorn".

Uturn and roost ? Noivern does that better even with SR weakness and it has a better spa anyway, not to mention taunt and switcheroo.


Don't get me wrong i love Flygon but people need to stop with that "Flygon always always that niche and that move that could work in X situation but Garchomp sometimes doesn't so Flygon doesn't deserve any improvement" bullsh*t. There's no reason to play Flygon over Garchomp or Noivern, they both handle ferrothorn and they both do eveyrthing else better than Flygon. Noivern is also very good in sun and rain teams with specific movesets. Noivern also OHKO greninja before it starts spamming ice beams eveywhere.

Altaria actually needed a third evolution, not a mega imo.

Noivern doesnt get defog, noivern doesnt have ground coverage, noivern has less bulk...Trust me salamance was a complete waste of a team slit unless you liked a dragon wish passer or a mixed scarfer with moxie. Flygon was, is and will be fine. If you want to sweep with him just use a bp team.
 

Navarch

Well-Known Member
The new trailer showed a picture with most of the Pokemon that receive Megas and their pre evolutions. There were also Feebas, Flygon, Milotic, Makuhita, and Pikachu, but Pikachu is the mascot, so he's expected to be there.
 

tictactucrac

Well-Known Member
Noivern doesnt get defog, noivern doesnt have ground coverage, noivern has less bulk...Trust me salamance was a complete waste of a team slit unless you liked a dragon wish passer or a mixed scarfer with moxie. Flygon was, is and will be fine. If you want to sweep with him just use a bp team.

"salamance was a complete waste of a team slit unless you liked a dragon wish passer or a mixed scarfer with moxie"

Yeah and that moxie set was huge and the reason why Salamence didn't need a mega. There is no "huge" Flygon set. Flygon IS a complete waste of a skill slot. Everything you say about Flygon is irrelevant and can be said for any pokemon. If you want to sweep with Feraligatr just do it, if you want to stall with Raichu just do it, it doesn't mean it is the best idea. The fact is, you could always do that with Salamence and now it's going straight to Ubers so i don't see how he needed a mega.

"If you want to sweep with him just use a bp team"

And this is the evidence that he needs something. A sweeper shouldn't need a bp team to.. sweep. You don't want more megas ? Okay, then just give Dragon Dance and/or Quiver Dance to Flygon, i'll be fine with that.
 
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phanpycross

God-king
The new trailer showed a picture with most of the Pokemon that receive Megas and their pre evolutions. There were also Feebas, Flygon, Milotic, Makuhita, and Pikachu, but Pikachu is the mascot, so he's expected to be there.

And two members of the treecko, mudkip, and torchic line......... OMG double megas for everyone O_O.


Jokes aside, it's prolly just some additional pokemon, nothing importent.
 
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Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
"salamance was a complete waste of a team slit unless you liked a dragon wish passer or a mixed scarfer with moxie"

Yeah and that moxie set was huge and the reason why Salamence didn't need a mega. There is no "huge" Flygon set. Flygon IS a complete waste of a skill slot. Everything you say about Flygon is irrelevant and can be said for any pokemon. If you want to sweep with Feraligatr just do it, if you want to stall with Raichu just do it, it doesn't mean it is the best idea. The fact is, you could always do that with Salamence and now it's going straight to Ubers.

Salamence Mega reactive bulk with aerilate is what sets him appart now. He is not just a scarfer anymore. Flygon niche in balance and hyper offence still holds a rigthful place, whereas salamence is just suffering from the pinsir/Mawile syndrome...He is just there for the megaslot.
 

Rio!

Composer
Salamence Mega reactive bulk with aerilate is what sets him appart now. He is not just a scarfer anymore. Flygon niche in balance and hyper offence still holds a rigthful place, whereas salamence is just suffering from the pinsir/Mawile syndrome...He is just there for the megaslot.

Isn't that what Flygon is commonly seen with anyway; a Scarf and/or Life Orb?
Sure that it does have the Stone Edge resistance and useful double-STABS plus with the ability to be a nice pivot w/U-Turn.

I really comes down to raw power versus the ability to constantly switch in, both which depends on the player's preferences. It's like comparing Slowbro to Feraligatr or Gyarados.
 

Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
Isn't that what Flygon is commonly seen with anyway; a Scarf and/or Life Orb?
Sure that it does have the Stone Edge resistance and useful double-STABS plus with the ability to be a nice pivot w/U-Turn.

I really comes down to raw power versus the ability to constantly switch in, both which depends on the player's preferences. It's like comparing Slowbro to Feraligatr or Gyarados.

I was talking about flygon bulky defog set, as it wirks different to most dragons while workyn bith as a momentum machine and a safe switch to most stuff, but yeh lifeorb flygon with sustainability in roost is still a valid choice.

My argument here wasthat flygon isnt a one trick pony suffering from the pinsir/Mawile syndrome. Like apparently salamence is going to face.
 

tictactucrac

Well-Known Member
Isn't that what Flygon is commonly seen with anyway; a Scarf and/or Life Orb?
Sure that it does have the Stone Edge resistance and useful double-STABS plus with the ability to be a nice pivot w/U-Turn.

I really comes down to raw power versus the ability to constantly switch in, both which depends on the player's preferences. It's like comparing Slowbro to Feraligatr or Gyarados.

And when you do that, what happens ? You just say "why the hell would i use Feraligatr ?". Flygon Noivern and Feraligtr are literally my favorite pokemon so trust me, it doesn't just depend on preferences.
 

HRRlion

2795 4358 7025
The only large-scale survey I have seen on this was done by IGN(yes, I know it's IGN..) some time after gen V was released. It isn't exactly ideal for fans but it's good for figuring out the favorites among everyone who has heard of pokémon, and Flygon is not on "top" among them. Either we like to admit it or not but the games aren't made just for the fans that has always stuck with it.

To be fair IGN is hardly going to be representative especially with the bunch of people who don't even play pokemon voting skewering the results. I agree that Flygon isn't amazingly popular or anything.

Noivern doesnt get defog, noivern doesnt have ground coverage, noivern has less bulk...Trust me salamance was a complete waste of a team slit unless you liked a dragon wish passer or a mixed scarfer with moxie. Flygon was, is and will be fine. If you want to sweep with him just use a bp team.

You could say the baton pass argument for anything, and you could easily say with that logic that you could BP to salamence to sweep with it rather than it needing a mega to be good.

Salamence Mega reactive bulk with aerilate is what sets him appart now. He is not just a scarfer anymore. Flygon niche in balance and hyper offence still holds a rigthful place, whereas salamence is just suffering from the pinsir/Mawile syndrome...He is just there for the megaslot.

Flygons niche is only in a supporting role, in hyper offence it is completely outclassed by Garchomp, and no, 80 base special attack is not viable for hyper offence.

I was talking about flygon bulky defog set, as it wirks different to most dragons while workyn bith as a momentum machine and a safe switch to most stuff, but yeh lifeorb flygon with sustainability in roost is still a valid choice.

My argument here wasthat flygon isnt a one trick pony suffering from the pinsir/Mawile syndrome. Like apparently salamence is going to face.

But aside from the defog set, what other trick does it exactly have? Offensively garchomp again outperforms it as well as Salamence in its base form, let alone its mega. Flygon is not going to be used as a special sweeper with 80 base special attack nor as a defensive wall with 80/80/80 bulk and there are far better pokemon to use for those purposes.
 
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Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
To be fair IGN is hardly going to be representative especially with the bunch of people who don't even play pokemon voting skewering the results. I agree that Flygon isn't amazingly popular or anything.



You could say the baton pass argument for anything, and you could easily say with that logic that you could BP to salamence to sweep with it rather than it needing a mega to be good.



Flygons niche is only in a supporting role, in hyper offence it is completely outclassed by Garchomp, and no, 80 base special attack is not viable for hyper offence.



But aside from the defog set, what other trick does it exactly have? Offensively garchomp again outperforms it as well as Salamence in its base form, let alone its mega. Flygon is not going to be used as a special sweeper with 80 base special attack nor as a defensive wall with 80/80/80 bulk and there are far better pokemon to use for those purposes.

I agree IGN isnt a good source for a popularity test.

Flygon isnt exactly a one trick pony with a single support set, as its movepool is extremely diverse. Like i said before YMMV but i justified my usage of flygon during the DeoSharp era, where other defogers became momentum killers, defog flygon became a new universal answer to most pokemon and even a lure for Ballon aegislash, bisharp and Thundurus I with the added bonus of stoping Vol switch and thunderwave. I can say it performed greatly on that era. As it allowed me to bring in safely an iffensive responce to tge other player reactions.

On a side note flygon spatk while not great is still usable. Much like weather volcarona or dragonite he has a niche as a weather answer. Ill give you that it fares poorly against rain, but against sand offence he can really punch sone holes in the XY meta. Again this is another niche that could justify a teamslot or fear that your enemy migth be too overprepared for rotomW.
 

phanpycross

God-king
And when you do that, what happens ? You just say "why the hell would i use Feraligatr ?". Flygon Noivern and Feraligtr are literally my favorite pokemon so trust me, it doesn't just depend on preferences.

Because gyarados doesnt have swords dance, or aqua jet, or crunch prior to gen 6?

that's like asking why to use breloom over rock polish torterra, yes both are offensive grass-types, but they have next to nothing in common
 

atom8bit

Champ to Be
Personally I thought it was odd we finally saw a 5th gen mega... in a 3rd gen remake. I really don't think that all the megas have been revealed yet - though they have revealed a lot! I think there will be at least one or two other gen 5 megas.
 

tictactucrac

Well-Known Member
Because gyarados doesnt have swords dance, or aqua jet, or crunch prior to gen 6?

that's like asking why to use breloom over rock polish torterra, yes both are offensive grass-types, but they have next to nothing in common

That's why Breloom is top tier OU and rock polish torterra is... nothing ?
That's why Gyarados never left OU and Feraligatr never went into that tier ?

Sometimes pokemon are different but there's still one that is better overall. That's what happens with Flygon and Garchomp. Feraligatr learning sword dance and Aquat jet doesn't make it any better than Gyarados just because it's "different", and still there is Azumarill for this job so why Feraligatr ? Fact is, i see Slowbro, i see Gyarados, I see Azumarill, i don't see Feraligatr. I see a lot of Garchomp too. Do you see Flygon ?

inb4 "smogon tiering is about usage"
inb4 "usage =/= power"
 
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To be fair IGN is hardly going to be representative especially with the bunch of people who don't even play pokemon voting skewering the results. I agree that Flygon isn't amazingly popular or anything.
That's kind of why used it. Sure IGN has lots of problems. However this test was done by users in face-off format so it's not like the owners could mess it up like they do with a lot of stuff. Since anyone could face-off as many times as they wanted it does not make seach user count as much as everyone else, which is a small problem.
However the main point is that IGN is a gigantic site and tons of people participated in it. You can't really ruin it that easily. Sure you can only choose to vote for the old memorable ones, but the whole point is that genwunners and the like are also taken into consideration. There are probably some people who only picked a random one or picked the one they disliked the most to screw up the results, but I don't think that was a huge problem.
The test shows a picture of what pokémon which are popular among both people who like pokémon, people who only like the old stuff, people who only like the new and people who never cared. I wanted to show a broader picture than just the fans' favorites and I think the survey is a good indicator, although it probably has some problems.
 
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That's why Breloom is top tier OU and rock polish torterra is... nothing ?
That's why Gyarados never left OU and Feraligatr never went into that tier ?

Sometimes pokemon are different but there's still one that is better overall. That's what happens with Flygon and Garchomp. Feraligatr learning sword dance and Aquat jet doesn't make it any better than Gyarados just because it's "different", and still there is Azumarill for this job so why Feraligatr ? Fact is, i see Slowbro, i see Gyarados, I see Azumarill, i don't see Feraligatr. I see a lot of Garchomp too. Do you see Flygon ?

inb4 "smogon tiering is about usage"
inb4 "usage =/= power"

Flygon's in UU though. Audino and Altaria are in lower tiers than Flygon and they got megas. I know that you're talking about how good they are competitively (Flygon does really when in its tier and can do well in OU depending on the trainer, like any pokémon), but that has nothing to do with how likely they are to get a mega evolution. Which is what this thread is about.
 

tictactucrac

Well-Known Member
Flygon's in UU though. Audino and Altaria are in lower tiers than Flygon and they got megas. I know that you're talking about how good they are competitively (Flygon does really when in its tier and can do well in OU depending on the trainer, like any pokémon), but that has nothing to do with how likely they are to get a mega evolution. Which is what this thread is about.

Don't you think pokemon that lack something competitively are more likely to get a mega ? I know that's not what happens, but that would be better.
 
Don't you think pokemon that lack something competitively are more likely to get a mega ? I know that's not what happens, but that would be better.

I think that's exactly what it should do. Pokémon that maybe don't shine as much competitively should be given a chance to compete. Like Beedrill was. I just think generally people should stop hating on pokémon in lower Smogon tiers; each pokémon can shine in OU, it depends on the trainer and on hax.
 

HRRlion

2795 4358 7025
I agree IGN isnt a good source for a popularity test.

Flygon isnt exactly a one trick pony with a single support set, as its movepool is extremely diverse. Like i said before YMMV but i justified my usage of flygon during the DeoSharp era, where other defogers became momentum killers, defog flygon became a new universal answer to most pokemon and even a lure for Ballon aegislash, bisharp and Thundurus I with the added bonus of stoping Vol switch and thunderwave. I can say it performed greatly on that era. As it allowed me to bring in safely an iffensive responce to tge other player reactions.

On a side note flygon spatk while not great is still usable. Much like weather volcarona or dragonite he has a niche as a weather answer. Ill give you that it fares poorly against rain, but against sand offence he can really punch sone holes in the XY meta. Again this is another niche that could justify a teamslot or fear that your enemy migth be too overprepared for rotomW.

Diverse Moovpool=/=Many Usable sets. I understand that flygon can defog and preserve momentum but it's not like only flygon can u-turn, both mandibuzz and scizor can also do so as well as do other things like walling, stalling, punching holes in the opposing team, etc.

As far as it being a lure for Aegislash, bisharp and thundo I'm failing to see how. It can't OHKO any of them and is OHKO'd in return if it stays in by any of the opposing pokemons strong moves. Bisharp especially doesn't make any sense as it'll just KO you with sucker punch if you try and U-turn. It can absorb electric moves well and I think that is a fair point to make provided hp ice isn't floating around, which it sometimes is.

That's kind of why used it. Sure IGN has lots of problems. However this test was done by users in face-off format so it's not like the owners could mess it up like they do with a lot of stuff. Since anyone could face-off as many times as they wanted it does not make seach user count as much as everyone else, which is a small problem.
However the main point is that IGN is a gigantic site and tons of people participated in it. You can't really ruin it that easily. Sure you can only choose to vote for the old memorable ones, but the whole point is that genwunners and the like are also taken into consideration. There are probably some people who only picked a random one or picked the one they disliked the most to screw up the results, but I don't think that was a huge problem.
The test shows a picture of what pokémon which are popular among both people who like pokémon, people who only like the old stuff, people who only like the new and people who never cared.

I see where you're coming from now. I wasn't aware it was a face-off, that certainly makes it harder for results to be screwed considerably. Now if it was like click on your favourite pokemon with a list showing all of them then i'd be a pretty crappy representation but this does sound better, despite still having some issues. I think it would be cool if we had a popularity contest like with the latest TCG set allowing you to vote for your favourite pokemon on the official site, that would certainly be more accurate than any other website running a test. That reminds me, could the results of that vote for a pokemon to get an event at the beginning of gen 5 that Arceus won have any merit? Admittedly people would vote for who they need over who they like, but it could be useful for us to see how popular certain pokemon really are.

I think that's exactly what it should do. Pokémon that maybe don't shine as much competitively should be given a chance to compete. Like Beedrill was. I just think generally people should stop hating on pokémon in lower Smogon tiers; each pokémon can shine in OU, it depends on the trainer

Pokemon in lower tiers can certainly do well in higher tiers, but when there's a better option available, like Garchomp vs Flygon for HO, you're gonna pick what's better, not the worse one because you can make it work with enough teambuilding.

and on hax.

I think this is hardly a fair argument. Any pokemon can win, even against a team of ubers if you have hax. Sure it's a part of battling but it applies to every pokemon, not just a select few.
 
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phanpycross

God-king
Guys, normal viability clearly doesnt matter, garchomp got one, and he's one of the best OU pokemon for 3 generations straight, and charizard got one, despite sleeping in NU.

popularity on the other hand.......
 
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