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New Moves & Abilities Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Pokémon - Generation VII Discussion' started by Aromatic Mist, Jun 5, 2016.

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  1. Gis4Gamer

    Gis4Gamer Member

    If it does replace the move with a Z-move then what about non-damaging moves like Growl? I am curious since it doesn't specify that the move has to deal damage to become a Z-move, just that it has to be the same type as the Z-crystal. So there could be three Z-moves for each type depending on the category of the base move.
     
  2. Trainer Yusuf

    Trainer Yusuf VolcaniNO

    Possibly but as of know, no variant Z-moves have been revealed. So we don't know if there is a Special Normal Z-move.
     
  3. JVLightningLover

    JVLightningLover Veteran Trainer

    Yep, or 2/3 variations of a single Z-Move. They would have the same name, but a different animation. Also, Pikachu's Hyper Sprint attack failed to KO Rowlet, only doing about 60%. This has been chalked up the the move of the Z-Move being proportional to the move being replaced. Foe example, let's say the Z-Move/Regular move ratio is 2:1. That means that Slam becomes a 160 BP Hyper Sprint Attack. This would be cool, as it would turn 2HKO into OHKO's, potentially turning the tides of a battle.

    Still, that's just speculative, as we still know still know next to nothing about Z-Moves. It's just like Megas. No one expected them to me as strong as they were, and the exact nature of Mega Stones were certainly theorized incorrectly. I mean, just look at this article from Smogon, where they tried to predict how Megas might work:

    http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue30/megaevolution
     
  4. League

    League Master Abra Catcher

    Even if there's a translating ratio for (damaging?) Z-moves (whether or not all such moves are damaging), why should we assume that what is probably a priority move (Hyper Sprint Attack just has to be a priority move) would have the standard 2:1 ratio? I think the standard ratio (if such there is) would instead be ~1.5 at most, with that of the Normal move likely only being 1 (as absolutely everything has access to Return).

    Also, Megas aren't necessarily even as strong as the predictions you linked to (let alone stronger such that they exceeded all expectations), as there it said that "to be competitively viable the items might also provide a 20% boost to STABs like Griseous Orb does for Giratina-O", i.e., the Mega Stone might have some passive benefit even if Mega Evolution isn't accessed. (Incidentally, pokemon like Mawile and Kangaskhan [and Gardevoir and Salamence, blah blah] received stat gains and effectively received STAB boosts or something strictly better, so the predictions which were hardly all that wrong were certainly not wrong as to what might determine maximum increases in competitiveness, though they overstated what minimally had to be done to make/leave other things competitive.) There were also some other hazarded guesses, such as the Mega Stone "disappearing" after use so as to allow max synergy with moves such as Acrobatics.

    And I know, I'm quibbling with what are only tepid speculations and characterizations of past speculations. The damage power translator can only be a thing though if Z-Move types are activated based on the move simultaneously selected; if they are only dependent on the type of the move activated as we know they are at minimum, then they'll have a fixed type and power and there will likely be exactly 18 Z-Moves.

    Personally I'd like if they were, for instance, a special attack stat-using, an attack stat-using, and a status Z-Move as has been thought up. My idea of a status Poison Z-Move, for instance, would combine one use of Toxic with one use of Toxic Spikes. A physical Poison Z-Move, meanwhile, could combine Hyper Fang and Toxic or some such.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2016
  5. JVLightningLover

    JVLightningLover Veteran Trainer

    You're kind of making my point, which is that we really don't know. Z-Moves are something powerful that we know how to activate, but that's about it. I hope we get more details soon (I think we're do for a nice Pokemon Direct, don't you?), but for now, it's untamed rampant speculation; a real wild West of fan theories :)
     
  6. League

    League Master Abra Catcher

    Weeeeelllllll I disagree with how consonant you're making my post sound to yours. If we discard the speculative things regarding what we don't know about Z-Moves (regarding which I went a step beyond your post and asserted an [admittedly conditional] rule), then I did effectively disagree with your statement about the state of prediction (and the quality of predictions) in the speculative environment surrounding Mega Evolution prior to its complete details (and methods and pokemon) being known.

    Also, wasn't my suggestion for a status Poison Z-Move just excellent! There's a million different ways they could go for the move, incidentally: they could make a Toxic-inflicting move that has the benefits of Infiltrator built-in, or they could make a Toxic-inflicting move that has the benefits of Salandit's new ability built in--it really would be best (and arguably pretty easy) if they go the move-type-dependent route!
     
  7. roserade the warrior

    roserade the warrior Well-Known Member

    I think z-moves will do mixed damage. Or more specifically, it will take the average of the sum of the attacks of the user against the average of the sum of the defenses of the opponent/victim. This way is more simple at least, even if it may not be the best for competitive.
    That or they could be "attack stat" dependent, in the sense that they take the form of the highest attack stat (if the user has higher physical attack then the move will be "physical form", and the other way around for the "special form"). I really dont think there will be a "status" version of this moves as it makes no sense (to me at least) to have such powerful moves to only intoxicate or burn (for that we already have will-o-wisp or toxic, the latter being learnt by at least 95% of the mons).
     
  8. Trainer Yusuf

    Trainer Yusuf VolcaniNO

    Crabrawler: Dynamic Punch

    Shellder: Razor Shell

    Sandygast- Sand Tomb

    Palossand: Shadow Ball

    Stufful- Revenge or Payback
     
  9. Fairy Queen

    Fairy Queen Lover of the Fairy type

    Do you have a full list of all the moved pokemon have used do far?
     
  10. Trainer Yusuf

    Trainer Yusuf VolcaniNO

    No, but I'll prepare one shortly.

    Original Posts:

    There are some older posts I need to dig, but for now this is it.

    Edit: This is all my posts. There ar few things I have not posted about, such as the trailers before, but most of them are in the first post, save for few things like Litten's Fire Fang against Butterfree in the "Every Day is an Adventure" trailer. So, feel free to ask them so I can add them.

    I also edited some of the posts, so if you click on the originals, you will see the differences and errors.

    Edit 2: Crabrawler's Worlds video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onBpM9QPyyY
    Shows Crabrawler using Dynamic Punch, Close Combat, Stone Edge, an unidentified move(which might be Pursuit), and an unidentified punching move(Which is either Focus Punch, Drain Punch or Power-Up Punch) and Crabhammer.

    Kangaskhan, Smeargle, Talonflame, Cresselia, Landorus Therian and Ferrothorn are shown.

    Edit 3(01.09.2016):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsTuHGpLJfM&feature=youtu.be
    Munchlax uses Happy Hour, Alolan Rattata uses Bite.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt-4Hef90VA
    In the Japanese trailer, Alolan Rattata uses Focus Energy.

    Edit 4(06.09.2016):
    Edit (08.09.2016):
    Edit (20.09.2016):
    Edit (4th October 2016):
    Edit (14.10.2016):
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
  11. ABC595

    ABC595 Well-Known Member

    So happy with water compaction!!! Exactly the ability I'd expect from a sandcastle Pokemon. But did it still take damage?
     
  12. clbgolden12

    clbgolden12 Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer

    Heh, I love how they showed it going against typically used competitive 'Mon. :3
     
  13. Bus

    Bus Well-Known Member

    Geez, that crab is like the Little mac of the pokemon world; it looks like it packs a serious punch.
     
  14. Endless

    Endless Sun God ☉

    I think you forgot one move from the World footage since there are two you didn't identify. The one used against Cresselia which is hard to recognize(Pursuit?), and the one used against Smeargle, which is probably either Focus Punch or Power-Up Punch.
     
  15. Trainer Yusuf

    Trainer Yusuf VolcaniNO

    The comments say it is Drain Punch, but I will add these as well.
     
  16. Tsukuyomi56

    Tsukuyomi56 Gesshin Powered

    Sadly, yes. You still can see the move animation for Shellder's Razor Shell accompanied by the "super effective" sound effect whereas for other immunity granting abilities the move animation does not occur. Adding insult to injury is that most Water-type moves are special attacks so Sandygast/Palossand don't really benefit from the ability that much.
     
  17. Aromatic Mist

    Aromatic Mist Sensuble

    Those aren't feathers, they're leaves. If the move was Rowlet specific they probably of wouldn't made it the third starting Grass move and would've made the name more expressive that it's Rowlet's move. In Japan the move is literally just called 'Leaf' in a similar vain (one word with an immediate elemental connection) to 'Sparks' (Ember) and Bubble.

    Are you meaning you think all types will only have one Z move or that you're unsure if every type will have a Z Move? If it's the second, it's already been confirmed since they were announced.
     
  18. JVLightningLover

    JVLightningLover Veteran Trainer

    What I was getting at is that the animation depicts the leaves as being the same color as Rowlet's leaves/feathers, so that's why I brought it up. Most Grass-Types don't have brown leaves, after all. That's why I mentioned that it could be a Rowlet/Rowlet line exclusive animation for the move :)
     
  19. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    I'm fairly certain Shell Trap is going to be either a Payback or Metal Burst clone, not Counter. It just doesn't make sense to have a Counter clone (not that a Metal Burst clone makes a lot of sense, but I suppose it wouldn't be logical to give it Metal Burst when it doesn't appear to be metallic).
     
  20. Aromatic Mist

    Aromatic Mist Sensuble

    Rowlet's leaves are green though, and it's completely the wrong shade of brown for Rowlet or Rowlet3's feathers.

    Also, the only Pokémon with a unique attack animation for anything IIRC is the Kalos Staters with their pseudo signature moves (which even then has them having unique animations, and not the move itself) and Hoopa Unbound with Hyperspace Fury, which can't be used by any other Pokémon, even via hacking, Sketch, Metronome, etc.
     
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