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New Moves & Abilities Discussion Thread

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Inconspicuosaurus

Bone-ified dinosaur
Yeah, I was thinking that as well, especially when I mentioned Aurorus setting up stealth rock and icicles. I think they'd benefit a lot if they added better moves that worked with hail, like a swift swim version or sand force or solar power version. They have to give a person a reason to use an ice type, and right now they really aren't, since water types get a lot of ice moves without the weaknesses that come along with it.
I agree. Some more non-Ice-types that are immune to Hail would be very useful too. At the moment, if you're making a Sandstorm team, you have access to three whole types, not to mention the few Pokemon outside those with abilities that grant immunity. With Hail, you have purely Ice, with the exception of Magic Guard and Overcoat users.
 

Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
Weather Lock - Stops any ability or move from summoning a weather on to the field included Desolute Land, Primordial Sea and Delta Stream.
Terrain Block - Stops terrain moves and abilities from calling on terrains to the field.
 

roserade the warrior

Well-Known Member
Whilst I love Ice-types and wish they had another niche besides the prohibitively awkward Hail, I think an Ice-Type Stealth Rock would be too unfair to Flying-types. I know Stealth Rock was invented partially to make up for them being immune to the other entry hazards, but two that can stack seems just mean to all those Flying-types that already can't cope with SR, whilst not remotely hindering the few popular non-Dragon Flying types like Talonflame.

One simple solution is that they are not stackable between themselves, you can set up spikes, toxic spikes, and even sticky web with either stealth rock or "stealth ice", but stealth rock cant be summoned if the opponent already has "stealth ice" on his field.
Another easy, though a bit more game-breaking solution is that they are stackable but are temporal hazards, they only hit up to 5 times (so, after 5 switches it breaks), though they are still weak to defog, rapid spin and cannot bypass magic guard.
It would be nice to receive some buff to ice and grass. Grass types could benefit from removing its fire weakness during the sun (by removing it, not reducing it, so a dragon/grass mon would still receive x1 damage and not x0.5; of course, a grass/ice mon would receive x2 damage instead of x4, while a pure grass would receive x1 damage instead of x2), they still have a lot of other weaknesses and since fire moves get a 1.5 boost during sun it is not really removing that weakness entirely, I am saying this because they get a lot of power-ups during the sun (leaf guard, chorophyll are grass exclusive abilities that rely on sun, solar power is had by a few grass mons; solar beam and synthesis are more reliable during sun and are almost grass exclusive), yet due to their weakness to fire, plus the buff fire type moves get in the sun, it is actually a suicide mission to try to use those strategies (there are some that can pull it out, like chlorophyll venusaur or leafeon, but for the most part...). For ice, abilities that give power-ups during hail plus a power-up during hail (like a buff on physical or special defense) could be very useful.
 
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Fairy Queen

Lover of the Fairy type
One simple solution is that they are not stackable between themselves, you can set up spikes, toxic spikes, and even sticky web with either stealth rock or "stealth ice", but stealth rock cant be summoned if the opponent already has "stealth ice" on his field.
Another easy, though a bit more game-breaking solution is that they are stackable but are temporal hazards, they only hit up to 5 times (so, after 5 switches it breaks), though they are still weak to defog, rapid spin and cannot bypass magic guard.
It would be nice to receive some buff to ice and grass. Grass types could benefit from removing its fire weakness during the sun (by removing it, not reducing it, so a dragon/grass mon would still receive x1 damage and not x0.5; of course, a grass/ice mon would receive x2 damage instead of x4, while a pure grass would receive x1 damage instead of x2), they still have a lot of other weaknesses and since fire moves get a 1.5 boost during sun it is not really removing that weakness entirely, I am saying this because they get a lot of power-ups during the sun (leaf guard, chorophyll are grass exclusive abilities that rely on sun, solar power is had by a few grass mons; solar beam and synthesis are more reliable during sun and are almost grass exclusive), yet due to their weakness to fire, plus the buff fire type moves get in the sun, it is actually a suicide mission to try to use those strategies (there are some that can pull it out, like chlorophyll venusaur or leafeon, but for the most part...). For ice, abilities that give power-ups during hail plus a power-up during hail (like a buff on physical or special defense) could be very useful.

Non stackable is a cool idea, would prevent pokemon like Dragonite or Tropius from switching in with 25% HP. And I also agree very much with the fire thing. Like they "gave" grass type pokemons sunlight as a means to buff them (through solar beam, chlorophyll, leaf guard, etc. as you mentioned) but then also powering up a type that is ALREADY super effective against is just taking it away. Rain, on the other hand, powers up water pokemon, and the only hindrance it offers is a 100% Thunder, which isn't even much of a threat considering no one uses it (except Kyogre lol). It does make sense, because when the sun is stronger, there is a higher chance for forest fires, so I guess it makes sense, but it is just annoying.
 

yumenokage

faerie dragon ghost
Yeah, I was thinking that as well, especially when I mentioned Aurorus setting up stealth rock and icicles. I think they'd benefit a lot if they added better moves that worked with hail, like a swift swim version or sand force or solar power version. They have to give a person a reason to use an ice type, and right now they really aren't, since water types get a lot of ice moves without the weaknesses that come along with it.

or would it really hurt to give it a few more resistances? idk, grass, bug, and water would all make sense. I'm not really sure why it needs to be weak to steel, either, though I suppose steel doesn't have much going for it offensively so I guess it's forgivable.
 

Wryteous

Rogue Trainer
One simple solution is that they are not stackable between themselves, you can set up spikes, toxic spikes, and even sticky web with either stealth rock or "stealth ice", but stealth rock cant be summoned if the opponent already has "stealth ice" on his field.
Another easy, though a bit more game-breaking solution is that they are stackable but are temporal hazards, they only hit up to 5 times (so, after 5 switches it breaks), though they are still weak to defog, rapid spin and cannot bypass magic guard.
I think the idea of hazards having hit limits is actually a great idea.
I'm an avid user of Entry Hazards to get an edge- but I know that their presence can really be a hinderance to opponents who have no way to remove them or have lost their rapid spinner/ defog users very early in a match. I wouldn't say the idea is game-breaking, but it changes the dynamic of entry damage- and gives opponent tough but varied options on whether they wish to keep switching Pokemon to knock out the hazards or try and play through and try to knock out more opponents. 5 hits means it can potentially affect each of the opponent's reserve Pokemon once without switch ins.

If not a change to the mechanics- I would really like to see this as an optional rule in future games
 

Lion Demon

Fairy Type Champion
Personally, I'd love to see a Pokemon with an ability that turns the battlefield to an inverse battle every time it's present. It'd be a fun way to mess with competitive battlers.
 

Wryteous

Rogue Trainer
Personally, I'd love to see a Pokemon with an ability that turns the battlefield to an inverse battle every time it's present. It'd be a fun way to mess with competitive battlers.

If Giratina ever got a Primal/Mega Form I could see it gaining an ability to reflect the Mirror/Distortion World like this. Otherwise I think Spinda or Inkay/Malamar could be valid Pokemon to use an Inverse ability
 

roserade the warrior

Well-Known Member
Non stackable is a cool idea, would prevent pokemon like Dragonite or Tropius from switching in with 25% HP. And I also agree very much with the fire thing. Like they "gave" grass type pokemons sunlight as a means to buff them (through solar beam, chlorophyll, leaf guard, etc. as you mentioned) but then also powering up a type that is ALREADY super effective against is just taking it away. Rain, on the other hand, powers up water pokemon, and the only hindrance it offers is a 100% Thunder, which isn't even much of a threat considering no one uses it (except Kyogre lol). It does make sense, because when the sun is stronger, there is a higher chance for forest fires, so I guess it makes sense, but it is just annoying.

Yes, I also understand why, but grass has so many weakness already, and the the only good buffs it gets is under sun, when also during sun one of its weaknesses, fire type moves, are boosted; and being fire so offensively viable almost every mon that can learn flamethrower or fire punch has it on a match.

or would it really hurt to give it a few more resistances? idk, grass, bug, and water would all make sense. I'm not really sure why it needs to be weak to steel, either, though I suppose steel doesn't have much going for it offensively so I guess it's forgivable.

Yes please. I dont think it resisting grass and bug is a good idea (they are resisted by way too many types, with this you are just pushing them down even more), but resistance to ground, dragon and maybe flying or fairy. Ground because it has very little weaknesses while having advantage to too many mons; dragon because ice was meant, from the beginning of pokemon, to counter dragons anyway, but they never gave ice mons enough to control the power of a dragon; for flying is simply the same reasoning as to why rock types are resistant to flying; for fairy I dont know, I still dont understand the type well enough, but it would give ice types an upper hand since fairies are so offensively present.

I think the idea of hazards having hit limits is actually a great idea.
I'm an avid user of Entry Hazards to get an edge- but I know that their presence can really be a hindrance to opponents who have no way to remove them or have lost their rapid spinner/ defog users very early in a match. I wouldn't say the idea is game-breaking, but it changes the dynamic of entry damage- and gives opponent tough but varied options on whether they wish to keep switching Pokemon to knock out the hazards or try and play through and try to knock out more opponents. 5 hits means it can potentially affect each of the opponent's reserve Pokemon once without switch ins.

If not a change to the mechanics- I would really like to see this as an optional rule in future games

Yes, I went for 5 because thats what many environment-like moves last, example in safeguard, lucky chant, the defensive screens, the climate moves, the terrain moves, one of the few that doesnt abide by this rule is tailwind, that only last 4 turns for some odd reason; I am not taking in account encore or taunt because they dont change the environment at all and only affect one pokemon. But I think it would change the game from try to switch the less possible, to try to kill the stealth rock user the soonest possible (I mean, we already try, but when you see it against the mon that cannot do anything to it you simply switch it to force a switch on the opponent side of the field, because stealth rock is inevitable).
 

Lion Demon

Fairy Type Champion
If Giratina ever got a Primal/Mega Form I could see it gaining an ability to reflect the Mirror/Distortion World like this. Otherwise I think Spinda or Inkay/Malamar could be valid Pokemon to use an Inverse ability

An Inverse ability would be a god-send for double battles with Pokemon like Abomanasnow and Camerupt who are not as viable as they can be due to their poor typing combination. Come to think about it, the Inverse aspect of X/Y/OR/AS has been severely under-utilised in general.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
Yes, I also understand why, but grass has so many weakness already, and the the only good buffs it gets is under sun, when also during sun one of its weaknesses, fire type moves, are boosted; and being fire so offensively viable almost every mon that can learn flamethrower or fire punch has it on a match.

I know preciously little about competitive battling, but I agree that it would be a good idea to introduce a buffing move to Grass that doesn't also buff fire. I could see something like "Primeval Glow" a fairy move that embodies the (modern) fantasy concept of an untouched world were forests were free to grow and tended by fairies/elves. It could be like a weather effect and buff grass and fairy type attacks.

Also kinda thinking Grass should be re-balanced to lose its weakness to flying (seriously, what?) and resist Fairy (fairies, spirits of nature are less willing/capable of harming it)

The Grass type needs more love.
 

JVLightningLover

Veteran Trainer
I know preciously little about competitive battling, but I agree that it would be a good idea to introduce a buffing move to Grass that doesn't also buff fire. I could see something like "Primeval Glow" a fairy move that embodies the (modern) fantasy concept of an untouched world were forests were free to grow and tended by fairies/elves. It could be like a weather effect and buff grass and fairy type attacks.

Also kinda thinking Grass should be re-balanced to lose its weakness to flying (seriously, what?) and resist Fairy (fairies, spirits of nature are less willing/capable of harming it)

The Grass type needs more love.

Well there is Grassy Terrain. Its effects are minimal now, but if we get a Grassy Terrain setter (which is quite likely, given that we now have an Electric Terrain setter in the form of Tapu Koko) and more Abilities like Grass Pelt, we could see Grassy Terrain teams gain viability in Doubles (Especially since it nerfs EQ, which could also give a benefit to some of your non-Grass Mons).

And I don't think Grass needs its resistances altered, or Ice for that matter. Last Gen finally brought the Type chart to a level of balance it hasn't had since Gen 2, so there's no reason to tinker and experiment with it and risk throwing that balance out the window.

Grass has always been the Type that is easy to raise, but difficult to master. It has some of the best resistances and worst weaknesses, while also having incredible advantages and woeful disadvantages on the offensive side of things. This is why Ramos was so utterly easy to beat in X & Y. When you're fighting AI and you understand Type match-ups, most encounters with Grass-Types are a joke. But competitively, when you play around their weak points, Grass-Types can achieve some pretty awesome things.

Ice may be weak defensively, but that's the point. It is amazing offensively (4 Types are weak to it, and nothing [barring Shedinja] is immune to it, even with Abilities factored in), so the poor defensive nature of the type helps to balance that. Not every Type is meant to have a multitude of weaknesses and resistances. They all are different, possessing their own little quirks, and that's what keeps things lively and invigorated. :)
 

roserade the warrior

Well-Known Member
I know preciously little about competitive battling, but I agree that it would be a good idea to introduce a buffing move to Grass that doesn't also buff fire. I could see something like "Primeval Glow" a fairy move that embodies the (modern) fantasy concept of an untouched world were forests were free to grow and tended by fairies/elves. It could be like a weather effect and buff grass and fairy type attacks.

Also kinda thinking Grass should be re-balanced to lose its weakness to flying (seriously, what?) and resist Fairy (fairies, spirits of nature are less willing/capable of harming it)

The Grass type needs more love.

Even though it is not the best, grassy terrain does what you ask. Sunny day is still better because of abilities like chlorophyll and moves like solar beam, while grassy terrain only boost grass moves and boost the defense of gogoat (only if he has grass pelt as an ability). I also dont understand why flying is super effective against grass, I heard because hurricanes can tear trees from the roots and birds eat fruits, but if thats the case flying would be strong over everything, and grass would be weak to everything...

Well there is Grassy Terrain. Its effects are minimal now, but if we get a Grassy Terrain setter (which is quite likely, given that we now have an Electric Terrain setter in the form of Tapu Koko) and more Abilities like Grass Pelt, we could see Grassy Terrain teams gain viability in Doubles (Especially since it nerfs EQ, which could also give a benefit to some of your non-Grass Mons).

And I don't think Grass needs its resistances altered, or Ice for that matter. Last Gen finally brought the Type chart to a level of balance it hasn't had since Gen 2, so there's no reason to tinker and experiment with it and risk throwing that balance out the window.

Grass has always been the Type that is easy to raise, but difficult to master. It has some of the best resistances and worst weaknesses, while also having incredible advantages and woeful disadvantages on the offensive side of things. This is why Ramos was so utterly easy to beat in X & Y. When you're fighting AI and you understand Type match-ups, most encounters with Grass-Types are a joke. But competitively, when you play around their weak points, Grass-Types can achieve some pretty awesome things.

Ice may be weak defensively, but that's the point. It is amazing offensively (4 Types are weak to it, and nothing [barring Shedinja] is immune to it, even with Abilities factored in), so the poor defensive nature of the type helps to balance that. Not every Type is meant to have a multitude of weaknesses and resistances. They all are different, possessing their own little quirks, and that's what keeps things lively and invigorated. :)

Grassy terrain is good and will surely get better (or so I hope), but at the moment no ability has been shown to control or benefit from it. Is highly probable a "grass type" Tapu koko will get a grassy terrain summoning ability, but until then... The other very high advantage grassy terrain gives is a 30% chance to sleep secret power (relic song is the other only move to damage and sleep, but it only has 10% chance).

And I have to disagree on the type chart being balanced, fire types became even more threatening thanks to their resistance to fairy, fairies are almost on the same level as dragons while this guys are still quite powerful, steel got a nice buff, but bug and ice were heavily damaged. Dragons may have lowered a bit of power, but the type chart is just as broken as before. A few changes could help both while not damaging 2 types too much: ice resisting dragon and ground (they are at the moment very powerful mons due to their very few weaknesses, and ice was meant to counter dragon long before fairies appeared anyway), grass resist fairies (Orphalesion gave a nice explanation of why this may make sense, that and also fairies have many grass support moves/abilities in flower veil and flower shield -yes, flower shield is a fairy type move, no, it doesnt affect fairies at all, only grass-). This way ice is still very frail while at the same time still being threatening, and grass would get a little buff defensively while still being just a worst version of water type (really, water type has advantage over fire, ground and rock, and grass has advantage over water... ground and rock, the difference is only one type, and guess which one is better due to being much more resistant?). Of course, this is just an opinion... is not like gamefreak will change the type chart soon, not until a new type is introduced, or if they, for some reason, see fit.

And ice is not amazing offensively, it may be among the top 7 or 9 but is not amazing, while at the same time being on the bottom 3 or 4 worst defensively, being only rock and grass worst than it (but rock at least has a much more offensive presence): fire, ground, fight, steel, fairy, rock, and even dragon are better offensively, dragon may be only super effective against itself, but only steel resist it and fairy is inmune to it, after that everything is hit normally.
 
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I know preciously little about competitive battling, but I agree that it would be a good idea to introduce a buffing move to Grass that doesn't also buff fire. I could see something like "Primeval Glow" a fairy move that embodies the (modern) fantasy concept of an untouched world were forests were free to grow and tended by fairies/elves. It could be like a weather effect and buff grass and fairy type attacks.

Also kinda thinking Grass should be re-balanced to lose its weakness to flying (seriously, what?) and resist Fairy (fairies, spirits of nature are less willing/capable of harming it)

The Grass type needs more love.

Whilst I agree with the Fairy resistance, Flying needs nerfs like Ice needs to stop resisting Ice.
 

Kingudora

My favourite
I never understood why Gogoat couldn't learn Grassy Terrain by itself. Hopefully they will add it to its movepool.
 

Fairy Queen

Lover of the Fairy type
I am super excited about Solar Blade. I hope it gets some use. I could see some pokemon benefiting from it, particularly in doubles, but nonetheless:

Sceptile can prep swords dance while its partner sets up sunny day. Sceptile, with its insane speed, can proceed to sweep. Mega Sceptile may as well (tho with that special attack stat I question going physical). Virizion could also run this same combo.
Leafeon, Venusaur, Jumpluff, Victreebel, Shiftry, Sawsbuck, Leavanny can all use a Swords Dance + Chlorophyll + Sunny Day combo, similar to Sceptile, but with chlorophyll.

Tangrowth may benefit from it, given its ability chlorophyll as well as its decent attack stat.

Tropius could run a Harvest/Chlorophyll + Sunny Day + Dragon Dance + Solar Blade + Earthquake combo, having its teammate prep Sunny Day, while Tropius sets up Dragon Dance. And with chlorphyll it can sweep, or with harvest it could get off a few more dragon dances and really destroy with solar blade.

Overall, the physical grass pokemon could really benefit from this move.
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
I'm hoping that there are some new fairy type moves this time around. The fairy types only really have one STAB Physical move (not counting normal moves that become fairy type due to Pixilate) so I'm hoping that there will be a few more to give them some new options.
 

Kennith

Banned
I think a new terrain move or two would be introduce if all the other guardian pokemon have similar abilities.
 

Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
Why not having a guardian that cancels the other 3 terrains instead of adding another?
 

Nave

Well-Known Member
I never understood why Gogoat couldn't learn Grassy Terrain by itself. Hopefully they will add it to its movepool.

Just use Serperior or Florges. It's hilarious when someone tries to stall your Leaf Storm with Protect and you just set up Grassy Terrain on em. I think Serperior is arguably better at setting up Grassy Terrain than Florges, because of it's higher speed. Although I guess Florges might be a better partner for Gogoat, because it doesn't share the same typing.

Hopefully though, we get Tapu pokemon that is Grass-Fairy.

I am super excited about Solar Blade. I hope it gets some use. I could see some pokemon benefiting from it, particularly in doubles, but nonetheless:

Sceptile can prep swords dance while its partner sets up sunny day. Sceptile, with its insane speed, can proceed to sweep. Mega Sceptile may as well (tho with that special attack stat I question going physical). Virizion could also run this same combo.
Leafeon, Venusaur, Jumpluff, Victreebel, Shiftry, Sawsbuck, Leavanny can all use a Swords Dance + Chlorophyll + Sunny Day combo, similar to Sceptile, but with chlorophyll.

Tangrowth may benefit from it, given its ability chlorophyll as well as its decent attack stat.

Tropius could run a Harvest/Chlorophyll + Sunny Day + Dragon Dance + Solar Blade + Earthquake combo, having its teammate prep Sunny Day, while Tropius sets up Dragon Dance. And with chlorphyll it can sweep, or with harvest it could get off a few more dragon dances and really destroy with solar blade.

Overall, the physical grass pokemon could really benefit from this move.

I agree, but I think there should be more physical grass pokemon benefitting from Petal Blizzard. Solar Blade should be reserved for the ones you named.
 
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