New Moves & Abilities Discussion Thread

[glacialcat]

I kinda doubt Darkest Lariat is 70 BP since it was able to do really good damage against Slowbro the pink tank. One hit was enough to take it down to 75% health and I don't think the bar stopped yet before the clip stopped. So 80 BP might be the safest bet. Though I give Spirit Shackles 70 BP at most since it seems very damaging too.

I don't really think we can make any firm conclusions based upon that information, given we don't have base stats, IVs, EVs, or natures. We do have their levels (50 and 48), but that simply isn't enough. We can't even begin to calc this without base stats! With 130 Attack you can get things anywhere from a 70 BP damage dark move doing 76.8% if they both have perfect IVs, 0 EVs but Incineroar is Adamant, or a near guaranteed OHKO if the Slowbro has 0 def EVs and a negative nature while the Incineroar has perfect IVs and EVs. Or if it has 110 Attack you'd need Darkest Lariat to be 130 BP to deal more than 75% to a max EV/nature Slowbro if your Incineroar has no EVs.

Point is, I just don't think you can draw any conclusions from how much damage it did in that clip. Could be basically any number.

Note I'm not really trying to defend "It's 70 BP." I'm just saying that I don't think you can draw any conclusion from it doing that much damage to that Slowbro when we don't even know what Incineroar's base attack stat is.

 

[knightwolf09]

I don't really think we can make any firm conclusions based upon that information, given we don't have base stats, IVs, EVs, or natures. We do have their levels (50 and 48), but that simply isn't enough. We can't even begin to calc this without base stats! With 130 Attack you can get things anywhere from a 70 BP damage dark move doing 76.8% if they both have perfect IVs, 0 EVs but Incineroar is Adamant, or a near guaranteed OHKO if the Slowbro has 0 def EVs and a negative nature while the Incineroar has perfect IVs and EVs. Or if it has 110 Attack you'd need Darkest Lariat to be 130 BP to deal more than 75% to a max EV/nature Slowbro if your Incineroar has no EVs.

Point is, I just don't think you can draw any conclusions from how much damage it did in that clip. Could be basically any number.

Note I'm not really trying to defend "It's 70 BP." I'm just saying that I don't think you can draw any conclusion from it doing that much damage to that Slowbro when we don't even know what Incineroar's base attack stat is.

If it helps, you can look at Litten's base stats in the NicoNico livestream. I think it had a neutral nature so you don't have to worry about that. He mostly specializes in attack, special attack an speed. Primarily speed. By the time the time he was level 14 he had 27 speed, 24 attack, and 22 special attack.

 

[glacialcat]

If it helps, you can look at Litten's base stats in the NicoNico livestream. I think it had a neutral nature so you don't have to worry about that. He mostly specializes in attack, special attack an speed. Primarily speed. By the time the time he was level 14 he had 27 speed, 24 attack, and 22 special attack.

That would definitely help to pin down Litten's stats (within a certain range, since we wouldn't know IVs nor what EVs are given out by the new Pokemon it defeats), but unfortunately there's no way to accurately extrapolate from Litten's stats to Incineroar's. Just for an example Torchic's Sp.Att is 10 higher than it's Att, but Blaziken's Att is 10 higher than it's Sp.Att.

 

[mapachatumbili]

Something else to keep in mind with that clip is that Darkest Lariat had STAB, so its difficult to say how much damage it would do normally.

 

[Squirtortoise]

I was under the impression that Sparkling Aria would do damage to the opponent while removing burns from your teammates simultaneously.

 

[Nave]

The voltswitch-Uturn argument applies to all trapping moves/ablities.
Whilst true, not everything has these moves,so I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss Spirit as useless.
Should Decidueye get setup moves,assisted by recovery options,it could set up on a pokemon it can KO anyway,threatening a larger portion of the opposing team than it would otherwise.
Trapping a Decidueye counter as it switches in also prevents a double switch on the following turn, which gives you more control over the opponent.
It's also supereffective against ghosts that can evade the trapping effect too,which is a nice bonus.

Am I the only person who suspects that Primarina itself may be amongst those targetted by Sparkling Aria? The site states:
'Sparkling Aria is a Water-type special move that only Primarina can learn, and it heals the burns of any target it strikes',implying multiple targets.
This could mean healing ally burns in doubles,triples etc, with the possiblilty of healing the user as well.

I would guess sniper as a Hidden Ability, from the current existing abilities.'Course they could give it a new one (like all 3 XY starters).


I could see that. Those moves would likely be only slightly stronger than a zmove from overheat or leafstorm, but stronger nevertheless.You probably won't see Serperior dropping leaf storm any time soon though.
Lickilicky has STAB Explosion,thus a STAB Explosion-boosted Breakneck Blitz.If that doesn't blow things away .-.

Spirit Shackle has the potential to be really good because you can combine it with Substitute against a Pokémon you resist and Leech Seed or Toxic, which would be really annoying to face. There are a lot of things you could do with trap moves. I wonder if it does cumulative damage as well as initial damage because you could use Binding Band.

Losing Flying for Ghost allows Decidueye to get the full benefits of Grassy Terrain and grants immunity to Explosion, so I'm thinking of pairing it with Tapu Bulu and Turtonater.

It makes sense for Sparkling Aria to target everyone because it'd be nice to remove your teammates' burns, let alone heal yourself. Maybe it only does damage to the opponent but has the burn removal everywhere?

 

[Fiore1300]

Someone over at /r/stunfisk translated the moves in the most recent Sun & Moon trailer and found that Minior gets both Shell Smash and Acrobatics.

 

[Requiem Aeternam]

I was looking forward to the starters' exclusive moves but only 1 of them sounds any good to me, which is Spirit Shackle.

Spirit Shackle easily sounds like the most useful to me. I like playing stall and use a lot of stat dropping moves so trapping my opponents in with these drops would be very helpful. The team I plan on using Decidueye on also lacks a Grass type so it'll fit in perfectly with the rest of my Pokemon.

Darkest Lariat is a hit or a miss for me. It all depends on its base power and whether or not it ignores evasion boosts which are always a pain to deal with. If not I don't see myself using it over Crunch or Sucker Punch if Incineroar can learn those moves.

Sparkling Aria is the worst IMO. Why would I want to use a move that removes my opponent's burns when burns hinder them and render some Pokemon completely useless? Even if it does do increased damage it still isn't worth using if I'll just have to burn my opponent again afterwards. I'm also a bit disappointed that it's a Water type move instead of a Fairy type move especially when Decidueye's and Incineroar's moves are Ghost and Dark types.

 

[mapachatumbili]

Darkest Lariat is essentially a Dark version of Chip Away, which itself is a move version of Unaware. So yes, it will ignore evasion boosts as well.

 

[knightwolf09]

Darkest Lariat is essentially a Dark version of Chip Away, which itself is a move version of Unaware. So yes, it will ignore evasion boosts as well.

As famous wrestlers once said. "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO YOU ARE! IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!"

 

[Divine Retribution]

Someone over at /r/stunfisk translated the moves in the most recent Sun & Moon trailer and found that Minior gets both Shell Smash and Acrobatics.

I figured it might get Shell Smash. That combined with its ability might make it a very dangerous sweeper.

I also hope bomb turtle gets Shell Smash too. It seems like it might, if not as a level-up move then maybe as an egg move from Torkoal.

 

[Fiore1300]

I figured it might get Shell Smash. That combined with its ability might make it a very dangerous sweeper.

There is a lot of synergy there. Shell Smash + White Herb yields you a BP 110 Acrobatics with STAB and two stages in all your offensive stats. Shields Down protects you from paralysis and burn for at least that first turn and will reward you with addition boosts to your offense if your foe hit you hard enough.

Shell Smash hasn't been an Egg Move but I'd welcome it if it was, since Pyukumuku would have better chances at obtaining it.

 

[WyvernTamer]

Spirit shackle so far sounds like the best out of the 3 signature moves on the starters. It's a damaging mean look and not only that if the effects last even after the user faints or switches out... It'll be even better then meanlook since its effects don't last when you switch and or faint. That means you can lock in a Pokemon bring in a Pokemon it has no shot of harming or killing and setup to you're hearts content !! That or take out an enemy that is threatening you're team. This has got to be one of the meanest moves ever created if it works that way.

 

[Victreebong]

OK, this way Farfetch'd, and I know it's an exclusive move that's also for a Legendary, but could you imagine how cool Thousand Arrows would be on RobinHoot!? It looks like a world class archer who could just launch a battery of arrows into the sky, and a ton of them would hit.

Also, for HA I'm guessing it gets Keen Eye. Sniper would certainly make sense as well, as somebody mentioned earlier. In this case, either seem better to me than Overgrow. In game and in BT Keen Eye is quite useful since the AI isn't always up to date on Smogon's newest suspect test or tier rules. And Sniper will inevitably get linked with Lazer Sight. That may not work in comp with Protect and switching (unless mechanics let it work with Pursuit...), but the computer isn't going to juggle 'Mons.

 

[glacialcat]

OK, this way Farfetch'd, and I know it's an exclusive move that's also for a Legendary, but could you imagine how cool Thousand Arrows would be on RobinHoot!? It looks like a world class archer who could just launch a battery of arrows into the sky, and a ton of them would hit.

Also, for HA I'm guessing it gets Keen Eye. Sniper would certainly make sense as well, as somebody mentioned earlier. In this case, either seem better to me than Overgrow. In game and in BT Keen Eye is quite useful since the AI isn't always up to date on Smogon's newest suspect test or tier rules. And Sniper will inevitably get linked with Lazer Sight. That may not work in comp with Protect and switching (unless mechanics let it work with Pursuit...), but the computer isn't going to juggle 'Mons.

For the record Smogon doesn't ban accuracy lowering moves. It bans evasion raising moves. Accuracy lowering moves are legal but never used because a simple switch out is a perfect counter.

And while I would love to see Thousand Arrows... it already stole Thousand Waves as Spirit Shackles! It's a real shame that Decidueye probably won't be able to learn the only move in the game with the word "Arrow" in it.

 

[JVLightningLover]

And while I would love to see Thousand Arrows... it already stole Thousand Waves as Spirit Shackles! It's a real shame that Decidueye probably won't be able to learn the only move in the game with the word "Arrow" in it.

Yeah, it's a real pity. I'm hoping that Decidueye at least gets some form of decent Ground or Fighting coverage, though. If it does, then it could shape up to be a real threat.

 

[Sulfurian]

I know it's too early to tell, but this meta might still very much be speed focused. With speedy pokemon using ridiculously high BP moves like Draco to nuke somethin and still have power left over. On the other hand, tank pokemon could potentially grab a knock out when they take a hit, and retaliate with a z move, essentially trading some damage for an enemy ko as well as switch fodder later.

 

[mankarp]

As famous wrestlers once said. "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO YOU ARE! IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!"

If you smeeeeeeeell what Incineroar is cooking!!

 

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Question does Dancer take your move for the turn? Or will it activate then you can use a move? If the latter that is broken especially if other Mons get it as a HA.

 

[Victreebong]

Question does Dancer take your move for the turn? Or will it activate then you can use a move? If the latter that is broken especially if other Mons get it as a HA.

I'm 100% confident it uses the opponent's move, along with your own selected move. We don't know about multi battles yet, but I'm assuming it just activates once. Could you imagine using up to 5 moves in battle, along with your own, never mind if there's multiple Pokémon with Dancer active in battle?! It would turn into Thriller!!!!