New Moves & Abilities Discussion Thread

[Archstaraptor]

After Fairy as a nerf last gen, I feel that Game Freak is starting to care more for the Meta-although VGC, not Smogon, obviously, which I find exciting due to the new ability potential!

Corrosive is cool, shame it doesn't let all Poison-Type moves hit seemingly. Still a really good ability.

Salandit has fire STAB as well though, so it doesn't really care about the steel immunity So no steel type is going to risk switching into a fire attack. The only exception there would be heatran.
But heatran would be mad to switch into a potential toxic! Toxic stops Heatran from being the resilient wall that it is, and that in turn breaks down the defensive cores that use it. Skarmory,Mega Venusaur and Amoongus also take a big hit from corrosion.

The 4* ground weakness hurts, but it's immune to both burns and poison status,and has 4* fairy and grass resistances as well.Throw in black sludge and you have a fire type which can mitigate stealth rock damage somewhat.

 

[MechaBulba]

Bruxish is water/Psychic so don't also forget that Dazzling is going to make Bruxish immune to Sucker punch! A psychic that's immune to sucker punch is pretty cool. (well You'd think it would stop it).
Its also immune to Fake Out, so not only is it a counter to Talonflame but also Mega kangaskhan. Its like they made it just to counter these two titans.

Corrosion is a very cool ability. hope something other than Salandit gets it as a hidden ability / mega. Like a mega Arbok or weezing with corrosion.

 

[Thepowaofhax]

Bruxish is water/Psychic so don't also forget that Dazzling is going to make Bruxish immune to Sucker punch! A psychic that's immune to sucker punch is pretty cool. (well You'd think it would stop it).
Its also immune to Fake Out, so not only is it a counter to Talonflame but also Mega kangaskhan. Its like they made it just to counter these two titans.

I wouldn't really call it a counter to Mega Kangaskhan, because I doubt that it would be able to kill it before it can OHKO with any other move that it'll know, such as Earthquake. It can switch into a Fake-Out, but it will likely die-off with a smart prediction.

 

[dextre]

I want a move that can invert the type matchup. It could be called Dimension Invert or Inverse Room. And it lasts for 5 turns just like Room moves.

 

[raichu27]

I want a move that can invert the type matchup. It could be called Dimension Invert or Inverse Room. And it lasts for 5 turns just like Room moves.

I think that's kinda a little too challenging, imo. If that were gonna be a move, I think it would be better for a signature move.

 

[jireh the provider]

While this hype for the three highlight abilities, Stakeout, Dazzling, and Corrosion, are VERY HIGH right now in casual competitive Smgon battles, online rankings, and VGC, just think of the scary implementations of those three in Smogon's Monotype Format, Hackmons, and their own made Almost Any Ability Mode. Gosh, let the anti-buffing begin.

All of these three abilities are like designed to debuff switching and Volt-Turn tactics, all forms of priority attacks andor abilities that gives certain types priority (Prankster and Gale Wings), and destroy Stall team builds so hard.

 

[Locormus]

While this hype for the three highlight abilities, Stakeout, Dazzling, and Corrosion, are VERY HIGH right now in casual competitive Smgon battles, online rankings, and VGC, just think of the scary implementations of those three in Smogon's Monotype Format, Hackmons, and their own made Almost Any Ability Mode. Gosh, let the anti-buffing begin.

All of these three abilities are like designed to debuff switching and Volt-Turn tactics, all forms of priority attacks andor abilities that gives certain types priority (Prankster and Gale Wings), and destroy Stall team builds so hard.

AAA: Return of the CurseBreon. Now with Corrosion.

But these are just still three pokémon with these abilities.. Outside of Dazzling, Bruxish doesn't look impressive. Yungoos probably has a stat-total similar to a Patrat, so we shouldn't expect much from Oldgoose, since it won't have Huge Power like Diggersby. I honestly doubt that it will force switches that often to get enough boosts to actually turn into something threatening. Everything should have at least something to deal with a Normal-type, unless you're running Mono-Ghost moves, you should just stay in and run your standard strategy and it won't get any buffs. Just a simple Toxic and stall, WoW and stall, or KO it with Fighting-type moves and whoops, no boosts. This isn't designed to debuff Volt-Turn, but if it is, it's just a gimmicky attempt at trying.

Salandit looks great. Hooray! It can poison Poison-types! Hooray! It can poison Steel-types! But why would a Fire-type want to Poison a Steel-type if it can just roast it alive? The only two critters where Corrosion comes into play would be Mega Venusaur (Thick Fat).. all other Poison-types in OU are weak to Fire.. Except Gengar, which should fall to a Fire Blast though..

And for most of the Steel-types, being badly poisoned doesn't do much aside from setting a timer. Salandit would be better off burning more of them, if not with a Fire Blast, then with a Will-o-Wisp. The only ones I can see being handy to Toxic would be Jirachi (before it goes into Flinch-spam) and Heatran. In fact, lets do a breakdown:

Corrosion, for what it's worth as opposed to outright Fire Blasting or Will-o-Wisping:

- Bisharp: Burn or KO with Fire Blast
- Excadrill: Burn or KO with Fire Blast
- Ferrothorn: 1HKO with Fire Blast
- Gengar: 1HKO with Fire Blast
- Heatran: Toxic with Corrosion
- Jirachi: Toxic with Corrosion. Most run the Iron Head-flinch, so rack up damage during the turns you're flinched. Other sets run Wish/Protect, so Toxic works better then a burn or outright attacking.
- Klefki: KO it with Fire Blast, should be doable.
- Magnezone: KO it with Fire Blast
- Mega Metagross: Burn it. I'm assuming that Salandit will just be able to outspeed it, but not outright 1HKO it.
- Scizor: 1HKO it with Fire Blast
- Skarmory: Gets it down to Sturdy with a Fire Blast, will probably get Whirlwinded out.. but if you have SR up, it's a 1HKO probably.
- Mega Venusaur: Toxic it with Corrosion.

So out of the 13 Pokémon in OU that this ability has an effect on, it appears that it is only worthwhile on three. And then you have to wonder how long you're going to outlast them, or if you're running Salandit purely to Toxic those threats (with standard Fire-offensive pressure for the rest). I could see a good set being Toxic, WoW, Fire Blast and something that might pop up in its learnset like Knock Off..

 

[raichu27]

Gengar isn't weak to Fire.

 

[Class Zero]

- Mega Metagross: Burn it. I'm assuming that Salandit will just be able to outspeed it, but not outright 1HKO it.

So you think Salandit, or its evolution I guess, will have higher than base 110 Speed?

I do agree with you that, for the most part, will-o-wisping a lot of Steel types or outright hitting them with a Flamethrower would be much more beneficial. Though there are some Pokemon where a Toxic would definitely help in the other tiers..

 

[TheFairyQueen]

If I am honest the new ability I am most excited for is comatose. I just feel it is really cool especially depending on Komala's stat distribution. If it has high attack you no longer need to worry about burns, High Speed (unlikely but still)? No need to worry about paralysis. A physical/special wall? No need to worry about toxic poison! It is actually really cool and the fact that it works so well with its design is just everything I love about pokemon. I really hope Komala's evolution keeps this ability and doesn't go all vigoroth on me.

 

[shadow dawn]

Given what catch-all defenders Heatran, Jirachi and Mega-Venusaur are, being able to toxic them and cripple half a defensive core is probably worth it.

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

Gengar isn't weak to Fire.

Gengar has low health and mediocre Sp. Def, so Specs or Life Orb Charizard can OHKO a non-defensive Gengar.

However, it is more difficult to do with a defensive investment Gengar or Mega Gengar.

252 SpA Life Orb Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gengar: 261-308 (100.7 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Charizard Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Gengar: 235-278 (72.7 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Charizard Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 216-255 (82.7 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Locormus]

So you think Salandit, or its evolution I guess, will have higher than base 110 Speed?

I do agree with you that, for the most part, will-o-wisping a lot of Steel types or outright hitting them with a Flamethrower would be much more beneficial. Though there are some Pokemon where a Toxic would definitely help in the other tiers..

I think it has a good chance of having a base 110 Speed stat. With that it would be able to speedtie with Gengar and Mega Metagross. The problem with Mega Metagross is though that I don't know if its Special Attack will be enough to take it down, and if it isn't, then there should be better alternatives to counter it, like a Choice Scarf Foul Play-user.

Did a short calculation on what can 1HKO a Mega Metagross with Fire Blast. A 252SpA Timid Delphox can 1HKO to a Jolly 0HP/0SpD Mega Metagross with a Fire Blast. Delphox' SpA stat is base 114. So a 114 SpA and 111 Spd would be a great asset to have. If the SpA is lower, it can still be patched up with a Life Orb.

Seeing how it's a very sleak looking critter. And salamanders are quite quick on their feet. In Japanese it's called Yatomori, and Yamori translates to gecko, which are also quite rapid on their feet. So unless it does evolve into a Komodo Dragon (which are slow), I can see it remaining quite quick. Or it can just evolve into a Komodo Dragon that's quick. That would be fine.

Gengar isn't weak to Fire.

It isn't whether it is weak to Fire or not. The question is whether the ability Corrosion is worth it against the pokémon (in OU) it's intented to work against, or are there other more likely better means of dealing with said pokémon. So the question becomes:
- A. Do you Toxic a Poison-type, with Toxic?
- B. Do you burn a Poison-type, with a move like Will-o-Wisp?
- C. Do you outright attack a Poison-type with a Fire-type STAB (since Poison-STAB is still not very effective against Poison-types).

It isn't beneficial to burn a Gengar, as it isn't a physical attacker, the residual damage would be more if it was given a badly poisoned status. Toxic on a Gengar is therefore better then a burn. But, a move like Fire Blast -depending on the stats of Salandit's evolution- has a good chance of taking Gengar out as it isn't that bulky. So after this short analysis, I come to the conclusion that Corrosion isn't worth it for Gengar, and this goes for quite a few Poison and Steel-types in OU. This does not take into account other critters that might get taken into OU battles that aren't strictly OU.

If I am honest the new ability I am most excited for is comatose. I just feel it is really cool especially depending on Komala's stat distribution. If it has high attack you no longer need to worry about burns, High Speed (unlikely but still)? No need to worry about paralysis. A physical/special wall? No need to worry about toxic poison! It is actually really cool and the fact that it works so well with its design is just everything I love about pokemon. I really hope Komala's evolution keeps this ability and doesn't go all vigoroth on me.

Hadn't thought of the anti-burn physical attacker. Nice way to counter Scald.

Given what catch-all defenders Heatran, Jirachi and Mega-Venusaur are, being able to toxic them and cripple half a defensive core is probably worth it.

This I can agree with.

 

[gliscor&yanmega]

Ability: Switch Delay-Manually switching happens after attacks.

Might be a tad much, but feel it could be an interesting Ability to have.

 

[Akashin]

Ability: Switch Delay-Manually switching happens after attacks.

Might be a tad much, but feel it could be an interesting Ability to have.

So basically every attack would be a possible, but not enforced, U-Turn/Volt Switch? I'd be interested, though it most probably is too much competitively speaking.

Edit: Nevermind, I misread. Still, moving switching to after attacks a la Pursuit would be interesting too.

 

[Locormus]

Ability: Switch Delay - Manually switching happens after attacks.

Might be a tad much, but feel it could be an interesting Ability to have.

So what happens is that this ability is nigh useless ingame, since the AI does not switch 99% of the time.

In terms of competitive, this will allow the user to have all of its moves to have the Pursuit effect (like Akashin said), without the double strength power-up. This would only be a good ability if the wielder is capable of forcing switches. It's the same problem Yungoos will have. I don't see a reason to switch out of a battle with the Raticate of the region, unless you're running mono-Ghost attacks.

And how would this work with Dragon Tail, Roar and Whirlwind? Mostly because of the negative priority. The pokémon with Switch Delay fights a Zygarde. You use Dragon Tail. Which has negative priority. Would this ability just give a negative priority to switching? And if so, would it then priority-tie with negative priority moves that also involve switching?

But the best use would be knowing that the opponent will be switching while you still have an option.

 

[goodpeople25]

Couldn't this also affect the pokemon (and the partner in double battles) who has it? So it wouldn't be useless ingame, as it would allow safe switch-ins. (How useful that is would depend on the pokemon and your team of course)

 

[Locormus]

Couldn't this also affect the pokemon (and the partner in double battles) who has it? So it wouldn't be useless ingame, as it would allow safe switch-ins. (How useful that is would depend on the pokemon and your team of course)

Depends on whether or not the pokémon you're trying to switch out can actually survive the hit if you want to label it a "safe" switch-in. If you want to slow switch in order for your frail Garchomp-counter to come in, then it depends on what you're trying to switch out before I'd deem it as safe. Slowswitching out a frail critter for another frail -but a more adequate counter- critter would just end up in a KO for your opponent.

 

[goodpeople25]

Yeah but what's your point? I never said it would guarantee a safe switch just allow them (and safe for the switch in not the other way around) and i specifically said it depends on your team and the pokemon. (Plus kinda odd to see competitive lingo for something that was brought up as an in-game use)

 

[Locormus]

Yeah but what's your point? I never said it would guarantee a safe switch just allow them (and safe for the switch in not the other way around) and i specifically said it depends on your team and the pokemon. (Plus kinda odd to see competitive lingo for something that was brought up as an in-game use)

My point was to question what would be a "safe switch", but I missed the last part of your post. xD