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New Moves & Abilities Discussion Thread

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TyLogic

Well-Known Member
Guys I really think they've been showing us new moves but not telling us. Now that I know that alolan Exeggutor wasn't using Dragon Rush, I'm almost certain about it.

I saw Salandit use some purple flame move that did neutral damage on Rockruff. I think Serebii has it as it as Sludge Bomb but it doesn't look like Sludge Bomb. It was way too big, went in a straight line and looked like a ball of purple flames. Is there any move like that?
 

ninijatt

Half, ninja, half cat, all attitude
Guys I really think they've been showing us new moves but not telling us. Now that I know that alolan Exeggutor wasn't using Dragon Rush, I'm almost certain about it.

I saw Salandit use some purple flame move that did neutral damage on Rockruff. I think Serebii has it as it as Sludge Bomb but it doesn't look like Sludge Bomb. It was way too big, went in a straight line and looked like a ball of purple flames. Is there any move like that?

I don't think so. If it's not sludge bomb, maybe it's a dual type Poison/Fire move like Flying Press.

I hope those don't become move common. That's a headache I don't want to deal with.
 

BlackMalachite

Ambient Musician
I don't think so. If it's not sludge bomb, maybe it's a dual type Poison/Fire move like Flying Press.

I hope those don't become move common. That's a headache I don't want to deal with.

Honestly, I think we need more dual type moves. I think it's a wonderful addition that's been largely ignored, and it would give a lot of lower ranked Pokemon opportunities to shine if given said new moves.
 

lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
Honestly, I think we need more dual type moves. I think it's a wonderful addition that's been largely ignored, and it would give a lot of lower ranked Pokemon opportunities to shine if given said new moves.

I think it should only be given to pokemon that are both those types though,so they should try for more unique typing moves imo.
Pikachu lucha or whatever also gets flying press so I guess gift pokemon would be an exception? That's how I think it should work.
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
I think it should only be given to pokemon that are both those types though,so they should try for more unique typing moves imo.
Pikachu lucha or whatever also gets flying press so I guess gift pokemon would be an exception? That's how I think it should work.

For me i think dual type moves should be rare but for me that's because they can give certain pokemon something interesting. I think more will come eventually particularly if one type combination becomes too strong. I could see a rock/ice type eventually to deal with Mega Rayquaza. (not given to many though as it would destroy too many flying types.)
 
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glacialcat

Well-Known Member
The thing with dual type moves is... you would often be forced to run its dual types anyway, or miss important coverage. At best it usually ends up being a nuke against a specific type.

Look at Hawlucha, it doesn't run Flying Press, instead using High Jump Kick and Acrobatics. This is because you lose a lot of important coverage with the dual type.

Flying Press hits Rock and Steel neutrally. That's... unfortunate for a Fighting-type move, and it means you're giving up a huge advantage of Fighting types. It lessens your ability to scare out Steel and Rock types. And Bug also is hit neutrally, despite Flying. If you wanted to hit Bug Super effectively, you'd be better off running a pure flying move.

Or lets look at a hypothetical Water/Fairy move. It'd hit Fire neutrally and... do you really want your Water Pokemon to not be able to counter Fire types? Sure, you could run a Water move in addition... but if you're running Water and Water/Fairy, why not just run Water + Fairy?

Now there are some types that could benefit from this. Rock/Ice as mentioned would greatly destroy Flying types. But it also would be a Rock move that can't do much against Fire, and an Ice move that can't do much against Ground.

What I'd prefer to see is more moves like Freeze-Dry. A Grass move that hits Flying Super effectively, a Fire move that hits Rock super effectively, a water move that hits.... water is strong enough, water doesn't need one.
 

ninijatt

Half, ninja, half cat, all attitude
The thing with dual type moves is... you would often be forced to run its dual types anyway, or miss important coverage. At best it usually ends up being a nuke against a specific type.

Look at Hawlucha, it doesn't run Flying Press, instead using High Jump Kick and Acrobatics. This is because you lose a lot of important coverage with the dual type.

Flying Press hits Rock and Steel neutrally. That's... unfortunate for a Fighting-type move, and it means you're giving up a huge advantage of Fighting types. It lessens your ability to scare out Steel and Rock types. And Bug also is hit neutrally, despite Flying. If you wanted to hit Bug Super effectively, you'd be better off running a pure flying move.

Or lets look at a hypothetical Water/Fairy move. It'd hit Fire neutrally and... do you really want your Water Pokemon to not be able to counter Fire types? Sure, you could run a Water move in addition... but if you're running Water and Water/Fairy, why not just run Water + Fairy?

Now there are some types that could benefit from this. Rock/Ice as mentioned would greatly destroy Flying types. But it also would be a Rock move that can't do much against Fire, and an Ice move that can't do much against Ground.

What I'd prefer to see is more moves like Freeze-Dry. A Grass move that hits Flying Super effectively, a Fire move that hits Rock super effectively, a water move that hits.... water is strong enough, water doesn't need one.

This is exactly how I feel about this. I would love a normal type move that is SE on fairy.
 

Inconspicuosaurus

Bone-ified dinosaur
The thing with dual type moves is... you would often be forced to run its dual types anyway, or miss important coverage. At best it usually ends up being a nuke against a specific type.

Look at Hawlucha, it doesn't run Flying Press, instead using High Jump Kick and Acrobatics. This is because you lose a lot of important coverage with the dual type.

Flying Press hits Rock and Steel neutrally. That's... unfortunate for a Fighting-type move, and it means you're giving up a huge advantage of Fighting types. It lessens your ability to scare out Steel and Rock types. And Bug also is hit neutrally, despite Flying. If you wanted to hit Bug Super effectively, you'd be better off running a pure flying move.

Or lets look at a hypothetical Water/Fairy move. It'd hit Fire neutrally and... do you really want your Water Pokemon to not be able to counter Fire types? Sure, you could run a Water move in addition... but if you're running Water and Water/Fairy, why not just run Water + Fairy?

Now there are some types that could benefit from this. Rock/Ice as mentioned would greatly destroy Flying types. But it also would be a Rock move that can't do much against Fire, and an Ice move that can't do much against Ground.

What I'd prefer to see is more moves like Freeze-Dry. A Grass move that hits Flying Super effectively, a Fire move that hits Rock super effectively, a water move that hits.... water is strong enough, water doesn't need one.
Thiiissss. Flying Press is a fun gimmick, but it is not good. The only dual type moves that would be good are things that can hit one type for 4x SE, and only then if that type is crazy common. Like Fairy/Ice for dragons, or the aforementioned Ice/Rock for Flying. The problem is, those moves are only good against that one type because of what glacialcat mentioned.

I agree more moves like Freeze-Dry would be great, or more moves like Scald. Slightly weaker versions of Kyurem's two signatures for other Pokemon would be cool too.

For the Freeze-Dry like ones, I could see an ice-water move that is Ice type but SE against Fire. Or if Pikipek does become a Steel/Flying woodpecker, a good move for it would be a Flying type literal drill peck that is SE against Rock. A kind of EM pulse Electric move that is SE against Steel would also be sweet. If Fairies aren't as OP this gen, what about a Fairy move called something like Purify which is SE against Poison? The possibilities are endless. :)
 

glacialcat

Well-Known Member
This is exactly how I feel about this. I would love a normal type move that is SE on fairy.

I actually thought about this exactly! I was thinking it could be called "Anti-Magic" and be SE vs. Fairy and maybe Psychic. You know, Normal types finding a way to combat the distinctly "abnormal" magical types.

Thiiissss. Flying Press is a fun gimmick, but it is not good. The only dual type moves that would be good are things that can hit one type for 4x SE, and only then if that type is crazy common. Like Fairy/Ice for dragons, or the aforementioned Ice/Rock for Flying. The problem is, those moves are only good against that one type because of what glacialcat mentioned.

I agree more moves like Freeze-Dry would be great, or more moves like Scald. Slightly weaker versions of Kyurem's two signatures for other Pokemon would be cool too.

For the Freeze-Dry like ones, I could see an ice-water move that is Ice type but SE against Fire. Or if Pikipek does become a Steel/Flying woodpecker, a good move for it would be a Flying type literal drill peck that is SE against Rock. A kind of EM pulse Electric move that is SE against Steel would also be sweet. If Fairies aren't as OP this gen, what about a Fairy move called something like Purify which is SE against Poison? The possibilities are endless. :)

I do like the idea of an Electric move that hits Steel hard! Icy-Water makes sense to me too.

To elaborate on the ones I proposed, I could see Rowlet's line getting a signature grass move that hits Flying SE. I imagine most flying types would not appreciate getting hit with a dart/arrow. A lot of games have archers designed specifically to counter fliers, such as Fire Emblem. And a Fire move based on magma/lava could melt rock since.. you know.. that's what it is.

I had thought of a 'rust/corrosion' based poison move to counter Steel types as well, but Salandit's Corrosive ability is honestly a good enough variation of that for me.
 

Inconspicuosaurus

Bone-ified dinosaur
I actually thought about this exactly! I was thinking it could be called "Anti-Magic" and be SE vs. Fairy and maybe Psychic. You know, Normal types finding a way to combat the distinctly "abnormal" magical types.



I do like the idea of an Electric move that hits Steel hard! Icy-Water makes sense to me too.

To elaborate on the ones I proposed, I could see Rowlet's line getting a signature grass move that hits Flying SE. I imagine most flying types would not appreciate getting hit with a dart/arrow. A lot of games have archers designed specifically to counter fliers, such as Fire Emblem. And a Fire move based on magma/lava could melt rock since.. you know.. that's what it is.

I had thought of a 'rust/corrosion' based poison move to counter Steel types as well, but Salandit's Corrosive ability is honestly a good enough variation of that for me.
Dartrix used Anti-Aircraft Missile! It was super effective! XD Seriously though, that sounds pretty cool.

Corrosive irks me because they should have just let it damage Steel types with Poison attacks. It wouldn't have been OP. Only Mawile, Klefki and Ferrothorn would take SE where they wouldn't before. And we already have Scrappy, which lets two types that Ghost is usually immune to hit it.
 

TyLogic

Well-Known Member
What if they're trying to give almost every pokemon a unique Ability. That way, each pokemon is unique. It seems more likely. The "Pokemon with past Abilities" to "Pokemon with new Abilities) ratio is kind of being proportioned. A lot of them seem like signature Abilities as well.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
For me i think dual type moves should be rare but for me that's because they can give certain pokemon something interesting. I think more will come eventually particularly if one type combination becomes too strong. I could see a rock/ice type eventually to deal with Mega Rayquaza. (not given to many though as it would destroy too many flying types.)

But Mega Rayquaza has Delta Stream.. So the Rock-type damage would be weakened by that ability. Better make it Fairy/Dragon.. Because that would still hit it for x4 damage I guess.

What if they're trying to give almost every pokemon a unique Ability. That way, each pokemon is unique. It seems more likely. The "Pokemon with past Abilities" to "Pokemon with new Abilities) ratio is kind of being proportioned. A lot of them seem like signature Abilities as well.

This was happening a lot in GenVI. Not necessarily unique, but at least new.. I mean in GenVI, the regional dex got these new abilities: Bulletproof, Protean, Magician, Cheek Pouch, Gale Wings, Symbiosis, Grass Pelt, Fur Coat, Stance Change, Aroma and Sweet Veil, Contrary (not new, but the first with it being legal), Tough Claws, Mega Launcher, Strong Jaw, Refrigerate, Pixilate, Gooey

These don't lines didn't have a new ability: Vivillon, Pyroar, Pangoro, Meowstic, Dragalge, Heliolisk, Hawlucha, Carbink, Trevenant, Gourgheist, Avalugg, Noivern, Diancie.

Now take a look at the majority of those:
- Pyroar: Normal/Fire - New Type-combo.
- Pangoro: Fighting/Dark - New Evolution-method.
- Meowstic: Psychic - First pokémon with a branched evolution based on gender - where both gender have a different level-up set and abilities.
- Dragalge: Dragon/Poison - New Type-combo.
- Heliolisk: Normal/Electric - New Type-combo.
- Hawlucha: Fighting/Flying - New Type-combo.
- Carbink/Diancie: Rock/Fairy - New Type-combo. Diancie is the only GenVI with a Mega Evolution.
- Trevenant/Gourgheist: Ghost/Grass - New Type-combo.

So almost every pokémon in GenVI, with the exceptions of Vivillon, Avalugg and Noivern (though it is the first Flying/Dragon..) have something new in either ability or type.

It seems like they're really going for: "If we give each pokémon something impressive like a new ability or new type-combo, instead of yet just another Normal/Flying-type with Keen Eye, they won't hate us for making less each time.
 

TyLogic

Well-Known Member
But Mega Rayquaza has Delta Stream.. So the Rock-type damage would be weakened by that ability. Better make it Fairy/Dragon.. Because that would still hit it for x4 damage I guess.



This was happening a lot in GenVI. Not necessarily unique, but at least new.. I mean in GenVI, the regional dex got these new abilities: Bulletproof, Protean, Magician, Cheek Pouch, Gale Wings, Symbiosis, Grass Pelt, Fur Coat, Stance Change, Aroma and Sweet Veil, Contrary (not new, but the first with it being legal), Tough Claws, Mega Launcher, Strong Jaw, Refrigerate, Pixilate, Gooey

These don't lines didn't have a new ability: Vivillon, Pyroar, Pangoro, Meowstic, Dragalge, Heliolisk, Hawlucha, Carbink, Trevenant, Gourgheist, Avalugg, Noivern, Diancie.

Now take a look at the majority of those:
- Pyroar: Normal/Fire - New Type-combo.
- Pangoro: Fighting/Dark - New Evolution-method.
- Meowstic: Psychic - First pokémon with a branched evolution based on gender - where both gender have a different level-up set and abilities.
- Dragalge: Dragon/Poison - New Type-combo.
- Heliolisk: Normal/Electric - New Type-combo.
- Hawlucha: Fighting/Flying - New Type-combo.
- Carbink/Diancie: Rock/Fairy - New Type-combo. Diancie is the only GenVI with a Mega Evolution.
- Trevenant/Gourgheist: Ghost/Grass - New Type-combo.

So almost every pokémon in GenVI, with the exceptions of Vivillon, Avalugg and Noivern (though it is the first Flying/Dragon..) have something new in either ability or type.

It seems like they're really going for: "If we give each pokémon something impressive like a new ability or new type-combo, instead of yet just another Normal/Flying-type with Keen Eye, they won't hate us for making less each time.

Was that all the new abilities. I thought there was more.

I hope they don't kill it with new type combinations. If they do, we won't have anything to expect type-wise for the next gen.
 

Inconspicuosaurus

Bone-ified dinosaur
Was that all the new abilities. I thought there was more.

I hope they don't kill it with new type combinations. If they do, we won't have anything to expect type-wise for the next gen.

Locormus did specifically say regional dex. There were other abilities that were not in the regional dex, like Aerilate and Parental Bond (only on Megas) and Aura Break (only on Zygarde). Also, some abilities were mainly given to old Pokemon, like Competitive, although it is actually F-Meowstic's HA too. However he did miss out a few, namely Flower Veil, Grass Pelt and Magician. The last two are HA only, but he included Gooey and Gale Wings, so...

Also, Vivillon had more unique forms than anything except Spinda, so it definitely had its own gimmick. Poor Avalugg - the only Gen VI Poke without anything new, and he was already stuck being an Ice-type tank (an oxymoron if ever I heard one).

Also, with 18 types, there are only 306 type combos, including just switching them around (a la Noivern). With likely over 800 Pokemon after Gen VII, it would be kind of silly if we didn't have every one at least once some time soon. It's not like the next gen will stop being exciting just because there won't be any new type combos, and there is always the possibility of adding a new type. I for one have been a proponent of a Sound type for some time.
 
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goodpeople25

Well-Known Member
Noivern did have a very focused on move in boomburst (not a signature as such but I think the focus was still there) so I think that matches what's bieng said. Again Avalugg seems to stand alone, only things I can think of him having any distinction is his stat spread and being part of the "lesson" from Wulfric.

Though I'd debate the conclusion. (Mainly which came first, and each time when we don't know exactly what the future holds yet)
 

sheld999

Well-Known Member
Guys I really think they've been showing us new moves but not telling us. Now that I know that alolan Exeggutor wasn't using Dragon Rush, I'm almost certain about it.

I saw Salandit use some purple flame move that did neutral damage on Rockruff. I think Serebii has it as it as Sludge Bomb but it doesn't look like Sludge Bomb. It was way too big, went in a straight line and looked like a ball of purple flames. Is there any move like that?

you could be on to something there
 

yumenokage

faerie dragon ghost
Locormus did specifically say regional dex. There were other abilities that were not in the regional dex, like Aerilate and Parental Bond (only on Megas) and Aura Break (only on Zygarde). Also, some abilities were mainly given to old Pokemon, like Competitive, although it is actually F-Meowstic's HA too. However he did miss out a few, namely Flower Veil, Grass Pelt and Magician. The last two are HA only, but he included Gooey and Gale Wings, so...

Also, Vivillon had more unique forms than anything except Spinda, so it definitely had its own gimmick. Poor Avalugg - the only Gen VI Poke without anything new, and he was already stuck being an Ice-type tank (an oxymoron if ever I heard one).

Also, with 18 types, there are only 306 type combos, including just switching them around (a la Noivern). With likely over 800 Pokemon after Gen VII, it would be kind of silly if we didn't have every one at least once some time soon. It's not like the next gen will stop being exciting just because there won't be any new type combos, and there is always the possibility of adding a new type. I for one have been a proponent of a Sound type for some time.

"only" 306 type combos? Sounds like a lot to me. Really, though, with that many, if it weren't for the fact that GF likes to purposely go out of their way to make one or two themed pokemon for each unlikely type combination, I could see it taking much longer to hit all the types. And yeah, I could definitely see sound being made a type someday, since it already has a base of themed moves and pokemon to convert like they did with fairy. Also it seems a decent amount of RPGs have sonic damage as an energy type be a thing. Don't know if we can expect any new types soon, though, as they don't really add them very often at all.

I'm not really obsessed with there being one pokemon of every type possibility, but I would like to see a few someday, provided the designs turn out cool. Like steel/dragon, ghost/dragon, fairy/dragon, fairy ghost, normal ghost, steel/fairy, fairy/dark on non-mega, non-legendary (but psuedo would be great), competitively viable mons.
 

Inconspicuosaurus

Bone-ified dinosaur
"only" 306 type combos? Sounds like a lot to me. Really, though, with that many, if it weren't for the fact that GF likes to purposely go out of their way to make one or two themed pokemon for each unlikely type combination, I could see it taking much longer to hit all the types. And yeah, I could definitely see sound being made a type someday, since it already has a base of themed moves and pokemon to convert like they did with fairy. Also it seems a decent amount of RPGs have sonic damage as an energy type be a thing. Don't know if we can expect any new types soon, though, as they don't really add them very often at all.

I'm not really obsessed with there being one pokemon of every type possibility, but I would like to see a few someday, provided the designs turn out cool. Like steel/dragon, ghost/dragon, fairy/dragon, fairy ghost, normal ghost, steel/fairy, fairy/dark on non-mega, non-legendary (but psuedo would be great), competitively viable mons.
Yes, only. Compared to the number of Pokemon we have, ie more than double, it's not very many. I do not think we will see literally all of those combos, because half of Flying's are unlikely to happen, due to it almost always being a secondary type. But it would be kinda dumb if we didn't have at least one for every unique kind of pairing fairly soon, because there are only 153 of those (ie not counting switching the primary and secondary). I understand that Fairy has a long way to go to catch up though, so that may hold it back.
 

raichu27

Well-Known Member
I think it'd still be cool to see a Poison move that's super effective against Steel. Most metals react strongly to acid.
 

lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
Thiiissss. Flying Press is a fun gimmick, but it is not good. The only dual type moves that would be good are things that can hit one type for 4x SE, and only then if that type is crazy common. Like Fairy/Ice for dragons, or the aforementioned Ice/Rock for Flying. The problem is, those moves are only good against that one type because of what glacialcat mentioned.

I agree more moves like Freeze-Dry would be great, or more moves like Scald. Slightly weaker versions of Kyurem's two signatures for other Pokemon would be cool too.

For the Freeze-Dry like ones, I could see an ice-water move that is Ice type but SE against Fire. Or if Pikipek does become a Steel/Flying woodpecker, a good move for it would be a Flying type literal drill peck that is SE against Rock. A kind of EM pulse Electric move that is SE against Steel would also be sweet. If Fairies aren't as OP this gen, what about a Fairy move called something like Purify which is SE against Poison? The possibilities are endless. :)

but why do these moves have to be competitively viable to be a thing? I just like the idea of them :p



Locormus did specifically say regional dex. There were other abilities that were not in the regional dex, like Aerilate and Parental Bond (only on Megas) and Aura Break (only on Zygarde). Also, some abilities were mainly given to old Pokemon, like Competitive, although it is actually F-Meowstic's HA too. However he did miss out a few, namely Flower Veil, Grass Pelt and Magician. The last two are HA only, but he included Gooey and Gale Wings, so...

Also, Vivillon had more unique forms than anything except Spinda, so it definitely had its own gimmick. Poor Avalugg - the only Gen VI Poke without anything new, and he was already stuck being an Ice-type tank (an oxymoron if ever I heard one).

Also, with 18 types, there are only 306 type combos, including just switching them around (a la Noivern). With likely over 800 Pokemon after Gen VII, it would be kind of silly if we didn't have every one at least once some time soon. It's not like the next gen will stop being exciting just because there won't be any new type combos, and there is always the possibility of adding a new type. I for one have been a proponent of a Sound type for some time.

I always felt like sound was an important part to normal type pokemon as one of their special attack forms. Otherwise they don't really have much to do othen than physical attacks without any elemental/moral basis, and they have a neutral energy about them. it's not really strong for a theory, but I always felt like sound was a part of normal too much to distinguish the two, and then it'd cause for a whole wack up of the current typings even more. I liked that jigglypuff was still normal, with fairy being added, due to her being heavily sound based(at least thats how I see it).
 
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