New Pokémon/Formes Discussion & Speculation

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Whenever they do trailers, do they really focus on technics like. I'd just imagine they take a pokemon and throw into the fray, no EV or IV training.

I'm not sure. They consider very carefully what they do and do not show in trailers, for big companies like this it's not just a thing that they put together in a few hours prior to release. I wouldn't know if they actually consider putting EVs and IVs on them though.

After the Hammer Arm Lycanroc has 27/123 HP left, so 96 damage. If you assume that both sides have 0 IVs and EVs, we're looking at a base defence stat on Dusk Lycanroc of around 120 (assuming a low damage roll) to 135 (assuming a high damage roll), if there hasn't been any stat changing going on. That is quite a big base defence boost over what Midnight Lycanroc has. This is assuming neutral natures on both sides. The thing is, I'm not sure if it's realistic to expect such a big base defence increase. It wouldn't surprise me if there are some IVs and EVs in defence on Lycanroc to make it look tougher in the trailer for surviving Bewear's Hammer Arm.

 

[knightwolf09]

I'm not sure. They consider very carefully what they do and do not show in trailers, for big companies like this it's not just a thing that they put together in a few hours prior to release. I wouldn't know if they actually consider putting EVs and IVs on them though.

After the Hammer Arm Lycanroc has 27/123 HP left, so 96 damage. If you assume that both sides have 0 IVs and EVs, we're looking at a base defence stat on Dusk Lycanroc of around 120 (assuming a low damage roll) to 135 (assuming a high damage roll), if there hasn't been any stat changing going on. That is quite a big base defence boost over what Midnight Lycanroc has.

I always wondered if they'll give it vastly stronger stats to justify making it an event pokemon. Like it utterly trumps the other two forms. At least I hope, still disappointed it's event only and not a regular evo.

 

[Akkipeddi]

Yeah, the only way they can sort of justify Dusk Lycanroc being event exclusive is if they actually boost its stats compared to Midday and Midnight, if not its beyond stupid.

 

[knightwolf09]

Yeah, the only way can sort of justify Dusk Lycanroc being event exclusive is if they actually boost its stats compared to Midday and Midnight, if not its beyond stupid.

I mean it would make sense, most of the distribute mons were really strong. Like the OP Mega Blaziken, to having the whole Beldum line from the get go, and Even Muchlax has it's own Z-move to utilize. So I'd imagine this guy might be significantly stronger....which would be great if there wasn't the possibility that it can't be used in competitions or be bred, meaning it'd be fun to use through story, but will more than likely stay boxed afterwards.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

But Snorlium Z is useless though. Snorlax should be running berries, not Giga Impact with a one-time-only Z-move. Anyway, there's apparently also a Chinese trailer, featuring the same Lycanroc versus Bewear (same HP stat on Lycanroc, same level on Bewear), but the damage is different, suggesting they made a separate take in this language without fixing the RNG seed to fix the damage. In the Chinese trailer Lycanroc has 33/123 HP remaining after Hammer Arm, and in the Japanese it has 27/123 HP remaining. This narrows down the RNG range, suggesting that the Japanese wasn't a particularly low damage roll, so we're looking at a Base Defence stat of at least 126 or so if there are no IVs or EVs involved.

 

[Akkipeddi]

So either they've swapped the attack and speed in favour of defense for Dusk Lycanroc, or they've given it an extra 100 BST that have gone into defences.

 

[knightwolf09]

So either they've swapped the attack and speed in favour of defense for Dusk Lycanroc, or they've given it an extra 100 BST that have gone into defences.

So like a Mega boost or Ash-Greninja boost?

 

[Akkipeddi]

So like a Mega boost or Ash-Greninja boost?

Yeah probably. Cause based on calculations, it really isn't possible for even a fully defence EV trained Midday or Midnight Lycanroc to survive a Hammer Arm from a Bewear, even if it's not EV trained in attack. So from the trailer, it's almost certain that Dusk Lycanroc might be pretty bulky, which might either mean that within its 487 BST, they've swapped its offences in favour of defense, or most likely given it extra BST.

 

[Sabre_King]

So far I am liking the new dusk form even more. I mean it sucks that it is through a special rockruff, since I was hoping to have its shiny form, but as long as I can still nickname it than I will be fine. Now onto its ability being tough claws makes it substantially more useful in my opinion than either of the other forms, plus granted it gets each forms signature move as well makes it even stronger, at least gaining accelerock does. I am not going to predict too much on it stats, but I can see minor increases to its attack and speed stat, maybe plus 10 in each while majority of the focusing being placed on its defensive stats so maybe around plus 20-30 each. Finally I am hoping for a signature z move for the dusk form either it will be triggered through accelerock or quite possibly a new move only the dusk form has access too.

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

So either they've swapped the attack and speed in favour of defense for Dusk Lycanroc, or they've given it an extra 100 BST that have gone into defences.

Counter always goes last.

According to people's calculations, my original BST speculation seems to be correct. It is an in-betweener.

 

[KingAegislash]

Perhaps this means we'll get more "no holds barred" style battles then like the upcoming tournament where all pokemon except the most powerful legendaries are allowed.

True I'd like that, the majority of mythical Pokemon really aren't any stronger than pseudo legends like Garchomp anyway.

 

[Sulfurian]

Usually if you go back to a few trailers for Sun and Moon (if you can find them) usually the hp stat iv is always 0.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Logically this thing shouldn't be anything shy of Ash-Greninja strong since it's event exclusive and just making it a balanced Lycanroc is plain silly, but we know Gamefreak. And they probably don't view this thing as anything special either.

Both Lycanroc's are already terrible so being better isn't really a complement.

 

[Sαpphire]

I'm skeptical of this evolution ordeal anyway. It's more likely than not that the actual mechanism of evolution isn't event exclusive, but rather that only an event-flagged Rockruff can trigger whatever event precipitates the evolution in the first place. That would be more in line with how they traditionally treat things like this, since the only comparable Pokémon - Ash Greninja - didn't evolve, but simply was given away with the appropriate ability already intact. This will probably work more like an event-flagged mythical Pokémon triggering the availability of a specific hold item.

I'm also betting on significantly raised base stats, since redistributing to make this form intensely defensive would just be weird.

 

[Luthor]

With this new form given that it has an ability like tough claws it's likely to be physically inclined like it's brethren Lycanroc . What could be cool is if they give it weaker special attack than the other Lycanroc forms and use the extra stats for ones it can actually use. Lets be honest while I did think a special attacking Lycanroc would be cool it really doesn't currently have much of a special movepool in any of its forms so losing some special attack wouldn't be a big loss.

 

[desdar300]

Dusk took a hammer arm from Bewear so it'll have decent bulk at least.

 

[Rio!]

Some part of me really wanted a Dawn Forme as well, complete with Comatose as a HA, and a spread both bulkier and slower than Midnight's already slow/bulky fluffy tookis. *sigh

This line man, this line had so much super cool potential. The letdown is real, like Gen I Kabutops and Gen II Scizor levels of premier letdown.

On paper it's a good idea, but the way it's been executed? Meh. I sure hope Move Tutorials help *maybe Superpower?* Otherwise it still has the same issues as either Midday and Midnight grapple with. Sure, Accelrock is cool situationally, but it's niche. Eeh, helpful for in-game playing at least.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Dusk took a hammer arm from Bewear so it'll have decent bulk at least.

But you also have to keep in mind the Bewear could have had a -Atk nature and bad IV's.

There are of course other things to consider.

 

[Mrs. Oreo]

Given both in Japanese and at least some other languages this form is getting translated as "Twilight Lycanroc" I'm thinking its more indicating that the official English name for the form is misleading. Assuming "twilight" is the literal translation then the form is meant to represent both dawn and dusk.

I like the term Twilight Lycanroc better than Dusk Lycanroc, so I wish Nintendo had used the former translation. But I'm still kind of hoping that Dusk Lycanroc will have a counterpart in US/UM that we haven't seen yet. I'm just underwhelmed by the new form and I want something more. ^^;

 

[Sulfurian]

Honestly midday isn't really that bad. It's a fragile stealth rocker or SD with decent coverage. Sure it needs ground coverage badly but it's decent in the right moments. Midnight really needs a buff to it's defenses to be worth it, along with that ground coverage. But for everyone on this forum to say "ugh these wolves are garbage" is not fair. They are not on delibird or yanma levels of terrible, they just need a bit more work or thought to pull off.