New Pokémon/Formes Discussion & Speculation

[KyogreDude]

I think some of the Alola native Pokémon were a bit boring. In the new games I'd like to see alternative forms or evolutions for the following:

An evolution for Male Salandits (could resemble something like a Dilophosaurus)
An evolution for Komala - I think someone mentioned this earlier comparing it to the Slaking Chain

Alternative forms for Dhelmise/Mimikyu where they shed the objects they haunt. I actually like the designs as they are but if Dhelmise for example dropped the anchor, it could become really quick.

I'm definitely up for more Alolan forms - just not Kanto ones.

 

[shadowF]

One of the things I hope for USUM is that we get new Pokemon forms. I am not talking just about legendaries but more in the tune of alolan forms or even different forms for generation 7 pokemon! Do we have any hints that we will get new forms for USUM or any reasoning/theories? I know we have a new form of Lycanroc but I hope that is not the only new form we are getting in terms of pokemon that are not legendary/mystical.

 

[BCVM22]

There's nothing to suggest it and ultimately no reason to expect it, no. Why start giving new forms to random rank-and-file Pokémon now, anyway?

 

[Kikas123]

The Aloan forms are fun. I don't mind seeing how Pokemon can be reimagined. Aloan Ninetales was an excellent rebuild, design wise. Plus, the Aloan formes have all been pretty good so far in the TCG. Aloan formes of some of the weirder Second Generation Pokemon, like Smearagle or Xatu, would be amazing.

 

[Thure]

There's nothing to suggest it and ultimately no reason to expect it, no. Why start giving new forms to random rank-and-file Pokémon now, anyway?

New Alolan forms in USUM would be the same as new Mega Pokemon in ORAS... Now they have enough time to implement them because they can't work on new Pokemon mid-gen.

 

[BCVM22]

New Alolan forms in USUM would be the same as new Mega Pokemon in ORAS... Now they have enough time to implement them because they can't work on new Pokemon mid-gen.

Mega Evolutions are temporary form changes by any other name - item-activated, stat boosted and type-altered forms of existing Pokémon. Mega Gyarados is a Gyarados that receives a stat boost, an ability change and a partial type change in battle, triggered by a held item. Alolan forms are, for all intents and purposes, entirely new and distinct Pokémon, linked to their Kantonian counterparts only to the programming extent needed for the breeding/evolution mechanics and for Pokédex purposes.

New forms are common among third versions, Dusk Lycanroc being the latest. New, distinct Pokémon are not. You can keep item-activated forms out of linked play easily, as they've now done for years with forms like Shaymin's Sky Forme, Giratina's Origin Forme, Kyurem-B, Kyurem-W, Primal Kyogre, Primal Groudon and so on. Not so with distinct Pokémon - it would be awkward and clunky to have to prevent entire, distinct Pokémon from being brought into linked play, to the point why there's a reason they don't introduce new Pokémon mid-generation. And again, Alolan forms, despite being presented as regional variants of existing Pokémon, are essentially new and distinct species - different movesets, different stats, different types, linked to their Kantonian variants only superficially and to the programming extent needed to allow the Alolan/Kantonian variants to breed or evolve to the opposite variant under the right conditions.

However, all that aside, the question was specifically "Do we have any hints that we will get new forms for USUM or any reasoning/theories?" And the answer to that is no. We do not have any hints or suggestions as to new Alolan variants, and as such we have no reason to expect them. We can debate back and forth, "can they? will they?" until the heat death of the universe is upon us, but the fact remains that right now, they have not indicated to us at all that any new Alolan variants are forthcoming. That doesn't preclude them in and of itself, but it does mean, as I said, that we right now don't have any reason to expect them.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

But Dusk Lycanroc is for all intents and purposes also a new pokémon. It can't change into another Lycanroc form and it has its own base stats and appearance. It'll probably get banned too from places like the Battle Tree, GTS, and Battle Spot for being event-only. I don't see why Dusk Lycanroc doesn't count as a distinct new pokémon while Alolan forms would.

 

[lemoncatpower]

Mega Evolutions are temporary form changes by any other name - item-activated, stat boosted and type-altered forms of existing Pokémon. Mega Gyarados is a Gyarados that receives a stat boost, an ability change and a partial type change in battle, triggered by a held item. Alolan forms are, for all intents and purposes, entirely new and distinct Pokémon, linked to their Kantonian counterparts only to the programming extent needed for the breeding/evolution mechanics and for Pokédex purposes.

New forms are common among third versions, Dusk Lycanroc being the latest. New, distinct Pokémon are not. You can keep item-activated forms out of linked play easily, as they've now done for years with forms like Shaymin's Sky Forme, Giratina's Origin Forme, Kyurem-B, Kyurem-W, Primal Kyogre, Primal Groudon and so on. Not so with distinct Pokémon - it would be awkward and clunky to have to prevent entire, distinct Pokémon from being brought into linked play, to the point why there's a reason they don't introduce new Pokémon mid-generation. And again, Alolan forms, despite being presented as regional variants of existing Pokémon, are essentially new and distinct species - different movesets, different stats, different types, linked to their Kantonian variants only superficially and to the programming extent needed to allow the Alolan/Kantonian variants to breed or evolve to the opposite variant under the right conditions.

However, all that aside, the question was specifically "Do we have any hints that we will get new forms for USUM or any reasoning/theories?" And the answer to that is no. We do not have any hints or suggestions as to new Alolan variants, and as such we have no reason to expect them. We can debate back and forth, "can they? will they?" until the heat death of the universe is upon us, but the fact remains that right now, they have not indicated to us at all that any new Alolan variants are forthcoming. That doesn't preclude them in and of itself, but it does mean, as I said, that we right now don't have any reason to expect them.

Even though it's not right to expect anything, I think a lot of people are expecting new forms Only so that USUM has more than just more places to visit compared to SM.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

New Alolan forms in USUM would be the same as new Mega Pokemon in ORAS...

The massive difference being Mega Evolutions are almost beyond Legendary Pokemon power than simple Alolan forms.

 

[ShadowForce720]

Mega Evolutions are temporary form changes by any other name - item-activated, stat boosted and type-altered forms of existing Pokémon. Mega Gyarados is a Gyarados that receives a stat boost, an ability change and a partial type change in battle, triggered by a held item. Alolan forms are, for all intents and purposes, entirely new and distinct Pokémon, linked to their Kantonian counterparts only to the programming extent needed for the breeding/evolution mechanics and for Pokédex purposes.

New forms are common among third versions, Dusk Lycanroc being the latest. New, distinct Pokémon are not. You can keep item-activated forms out of linked play easily, as they've now done for years with forms like Shaymin's Sky Forme, Giratina's Origin Forme, Kyurem-B, Kyurem-W, Primal Kyogre, Primal Groudon and so on. Not so with distinct Pokémon - it would be awkward and clunky to have to prevent entire, distinct Pokémon from being brought into linked play, to the point why there's a reason they don't introduce new Pokémon mid-generation. And again, Alolan forms, despite being presented as regional variants of existing Pokémon, are essentially new and distinct species - different movesets, different stats, different types, linked to their Kantonian variants only superficially and to the programming extent needed to allow the Alolan/Kantonian variants to breed or evolve to the opposite variant under the right conditions.

However, all that aside, the question was specifically "Do we have any hints that we will get new forms for USUM or any reasoning/theories?" And the answer to that is no. We do not have any hints or suggestions as to new Alolan variants, and as such we have no reason to expect them. We can debate back and forth, "can they? will they?" until the heat death of the universe is upon us, but the fact remains that right now, they have not indicated to us at all that any new Alolan variants are forthcoming. That doesn't preclude them in and of itself, but it does mean, as I said, that we right now don't have any reason to expect them.

While it's not guaranteed that will new Alolan Forms in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, it's also not guaranteed that they won't, you say that's unlikely that GameFreak would introduce more in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon because they aren't linked to items so it would make cross play difficult, I have to disagree with that because they could just have thing in place similar to what happened to ORAS mega evolutions when you tried to face some one who is playing X&Y where you wouldn't be able to play against them without taking for the mega stone that was introduce in ORAS, so they could have it to where if you playing against some one who has Sun and Moon while your playing Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon your not able to use the Alolan forms that were introduce in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon.


Now you maybe asking why would they create new Alolan forms, well when you think about it until remakes of Sun and Moon, Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon is the last chance they have to introduce Alolan forms, while it's true we could have regional variants in later generation it's also true that they won't be called Alolan Forms, also GrameFreak most likely knows that Alolan Forms make a lot of money as making new ones will help make more money, also to a certain degree GameFreak has tried to start listening to it's fans more and if you actually look at the fanbase it's no secret that there are more people that want new Alolan forms to be introduce then the ones that don't. Also introduce new Alolan forms in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon would help sell those games more as people will be more interested in them then, plus they can introduce some Alolan forms based on Johto pokemon to tie in with the Gold and Silver games on the virtual console.



So yes it's not guaranteed that will get more Alolan forms, but at the moment until Gamefreak states otherwise or the game comes out, there isn't much reason to actually doubt that there will be new Alolan forms. And before you try to say that oh will the never done it before so that means it's not going to happen, people said the exact same thing about a legendary that was part of an evolutionary line getting introduce and having main series pokemon games that don't have gyms, and yet both happened in Pokémon Sun and Moon. So when you actually stop and think about it GameFreak introduce new Alolan Forms in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon are more likely then you think, nor is that idea that far out there that it couldn't happen.


Look you can you argue as much as you want about how you think there won't be any new Alolan forms, but at the end of the day the fact remains is there is still time for them to reveal some new Alolan forms for Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon before the games come out, so it's a bit to early to be trying to rule out new Alolan forms being introduce in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. Especially when you consider the fact that GameFreak so far has never stated that it won't introduce new Alolan forms in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, plus keep in mind GameFreak does like to be unpredictable, now while I don't expect them to introduce say a new Eeveelution or Komala evolution or something like that, it's not that unreasonable or that far out there to think that GameFreak might introduce new Alolan Forms in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon.

 

[BCVM22]

I have to disagree with that because they could just have thing in place similar to what happened to ORAS mega evolutions when you tried to face some one who is playing X&Y where you wouldn't be able to play against them without taking for the mega stone that was introduce in ORAS

Again, that's the difference between a held item, and an entirely distinct Pokémon, which I highlighted

also to a certain degree GameFreak has tried to start listening to it's fans more

Nope. They don't solicit our feedback. They don't care what "we" think when it comes to whether they should introduce new Alolan formes or whatever, nor should they. Collectively, we have terrible ideas.

So yes it's not guaranteed that will get more Alolan forms, but at the moment until Gamefreak states otherwise or the game comes out, there isn't much reason to actually doubt that there will be new Alolan forms.

But there's absolutely no reason to expect them. We're at an equilibrium of complete zero - why would you try and weight "well it COULD" happen more than "it probably won't happen"? That doesn't make much sense. Especially since the argument for seems to consist mostly of "well I think it should happen and Game Freak surprised us that one time, so...!"

I'm not saying it is completely prohibited from happening. I am saying that we have been given absolutely no concrete indicator or reason to expect it will happen and anything that says differently, based on what we know right now, is basically wishful thinking. Maybe reasonable wishful thinking, but still wishful thinking.

new Alolan Forms in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon are more likely then you think

I don't think it's very likely at all, so if that's your bar, it's not a very high one.

Especially when you consider the fact that GameFreak so far has never stated that it won't introduce new Alolan forms in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon

Why does this matter, though? It's not as if they'd come out and comment on something they don't intend to add. Nor would they comment on something they have added until they're ready. Silence on a given subject isn't evidence in favor of it.

I don't see why Dusk Lycanroc doesn't count as a distinct new pokémon while Alolan forms would.

If I remember correctly, Sun & Moon's coding actually had slots for other Lycanroc forms besides Midday and Midnight, possibly for this very reason. Not the case with other Alolan formes.

I think a lot of people are expecting new forms Only so that USUM has more than just more places to visit compared to SM.

I can't help that. People expect a lot of things during pre-release that ultimately aren't realistic or likely (and then many of them complain when these things don't happen).

 

[Luthor]

I do wonder if the non Alolan forms will become obtainable in game this time around. Like a special place where if you use a thunder stone on a Pikachu it'll evolve into a regular Raichu. I was hoping for one last time around.

 

[Auraninja]

I do wonder if the non Alolan forms will become obtainable in game this time around. Like a special place where if you use a thunder stone on a Pikachu it'll evolve into a regular Raichu. I was hoping for one last time around.

I made the "suggestion" that there would be a Nature Preserve like area, but instead, you can evolve, say, Cubone into Kantonian Marowak since you are away from Hawaii.

 

[Ambyssin]

Just give Aether Paradise some sort of climate biodome where they can simulate Kantonian climate or whatever. That'll actually give the place some sort of use after the main storyline, beside endlessly loading it up on SR's to get my shiny Type: Null.

 

[Zipper4242]

New forms are common among third versions, Dusk Lycanroc being the latest. New, distinct Pokémon are not. You can keep item-activated forms out of linked play easily, as they've now done for years with forms like Shaymin's Sky Forme, Giratina's Origin Forme, Kyurem-B, Kyurem-W, Primal Kyogre, Primal Groudon and so on. Not so with distinct Pokémon - it would be awkward and clunky to have to prevent entire, distinct Pokémon from being brought into linked play, to the point why there's a reason they don't introduce new Pokémon mid-generation. And again, Alolan forms, despite being presented as regional variants of existing Pokémon, are essentially new and distinct species - different movesets, different stats, different types, linked to their Kantonian variants only superficially and to the programming extent needed to allow the Alolan/Kantonian variants to breed or evolve to the opposite variant under the right conditions.

I'm hoping for DLC for SM which can allow these new forms in link play. At least hope springs eternal, but I highly doubt anything cool like that would happen

EDIT: I wonder if maybe these new speculated forms and/or the lack of linkage is why SM is the VGC format next year and not USUM

I do wonder if the non Alolan forms will become obtainable in game this time around. Like a special place where if you use a thunder stone on a Pikachu it'll evolve into a regular Raichu. I was hoping for one last time around.

Perhaps in Pikachu Paradise? Maybe (again, grasping at straws, but hope springs eternal) you can get a Pikachu from another region that evolves into regular Raichu. Of course, this may only be applicable for Pikachu, since it's by far the most popular Pokemon with an Alolan form/evolution. As for the other Pokemon, since VC allows for easy catching of most of them, I highly doubt that they're going to give us a feature like that, since, of course, they want us to buy VC and pay for Bank to move VC Pokemon to USUM.

 

[ShadowForce720]

I'm hoping for DLC for SM which can allow these new forms in link play. At least hope springs eternal, but I highly doubt anything cool like that would happen

EDIT: I wonder if maybe these new speculated forms and/or the lack of linkage is why SM is the VGC format next year and not USUM


Perhaps in Pikachu Paradise? Maybe (again, grasping at straws, but hope springs eternal) you can get a Pikachu from another region that evolves into regular Raichu. Of course, this may only be applicable for Pikachu, since it's by far the most popular Pokemon with an Alolan form/evolution. As for the other Pokemon, since VC allows for easy catching of most of them, I highly doubt that they're going to give us a feature like that, since, of course, they want us to buy VC and pay for Bank to move VC Pokemon to USUM.

What's interesting is how the VGC handle the games that would be used here is how it break down since it started up in 2009:

2009: Pokémon Platinum
2010: Pokémon HeartGold & SoulSilver
2011: Pokémon Black & White
2012: Pokémon Black & White
2013: Pokémon Black2 & White2
2014: Pokémon X&Y
2015: Pokémon OmegaRuby & AlphaSapphire
2016: Pokémon OmegaRuby & AlphaSapphire
2017: Pokémon Sun&Moon
2018: Pokémon Sun&Moon

what's interesting is if you notice that each main series game since Platinum has been used in the VGC tournament regardless of whether or not it had introduce any new pokemon or forms of pokemon. So what this would mean is that it would break down like this in terms of the games that would be used in 2019 and 2020:

2019: Pokémon UltraSun & UltraMoon
2020: Nintendo Switch games/ gen 8

 

[Zipper4242]

What's interesting is how the VGC handle the games that would be used here is how it break down since it started up in 2009:

2009: Pokémon Platinum
2010: Pokémon HeartGold & SoulSilver
2011: Pokémon Black & White
2012: Pokémon Black & White
2013: Pokémon Black2 & White2
2014: Pokémon X&Y
2015: Pokémon OmegaRuby & AlphaSapphire
2016: Pokémon OmegaRuby & AlphaSapphire
2017: Pokémon Sun&Moon
2018: Pokémon Sun&Moon

what's interesting is if you notice that each main series game since Platinum has been used in the VGC tournament regardless of whether or not it had introduce any new pokemon or forms of pokemon. So what this would mean is that it would break down like this in terms of the games that would be used in 2019 and 2020:

2019: Pokémon UltraSun & UltraMoon
2020: Nintendo Switch games/ gen 8

Thank you so much for explaining my point so much better than me lol- I wonder if something in USUM is causing this unconventional alteration to tradition.

 

[BCVM22]

I wonder if something in USUM is causing this unconventional alteration to tradition.

Or if the lack of anything new is leading them to re-use Sun & Moon as the competitive standard.

If significant new formes were being introduced in Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon - like Kyurem-W and Kyurem-B in B/W2, like new Mega Evolutions in OR/AS - one would think they'd want those available at the competitive level.

Just a thought.

 

[ShadowForce720]

Or if the lack of anything new is leading them to re-use Sun & Moon as the competitive standard.

If significant new formes were being introduced in Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon - like Kyurem-W and Kyurem-B in B/W2, like new Mega Evolutions in OR/AS - one would think they'd want those available at the competitive level.

Just a thought.

Not really because if you look at it they still used HeartGold&SoulSilver as competitive standard even though the games didn't introduce anything new, so it doesn't matter if UltraSun & UltraMoon didn't introduce anything new as they would still eventually get used as competitive standard, meaning that since it seems like Sun and Moon are being used as the games for worlds 2018, it means that 2019 worlds will likely use UltraSun & UltraMoon as it's games.

Plus you say if significant new forms would were being introduce in Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon as if that's not the case, when it is the case because no matter how you look at it those pokemon that look like Solgaleo and Lunala would be consider significant forms we just don't know if their going to be forms of Necrozma or if their going to be forms of Solgaleo and Lunala, but either way they are significant forms.

 

[Sαpphire]

It's really hard to argue that the lack of news on USUM - or their failure to be the VGC games for the 2018 series - has anything to do with content or lack thereof when we didn't get news about B2W2 until about two months before release. That mark is still another month away, folks. As for VGC in particular, these games are being released later in the year than SM and some of the first big competitions are taking place right around release; additionally, format and game can change mid-season.

As for new Alolan forms, there's absolutely no reason they couldn't show up, especially with the GS VC release this year. Sure, there's far less reason than with SM to expect them, and there hasn't been any indication that more are coming, but they easily could. Banning a few Alolan forms from communication that involves Sun and Moon really wouldn't be all that difficult, all things considered - they've been doing similar things since Platinum with certain legendaries and mythicals.