New Pokémon/Formes Discussion & Speculation

[Ghost94]

As for a Dawn Lycanroc, I doubt it. Dusk Lycanroc already establishes more or less a middle ground between the two existing ones, so I can't really see what purpose there would be in a fourth form besides having one aligned with Dawn to parallel the one aligned with Dusk. To say nothing of the fact that they'd almost certainly go the exclusive route with them if there were two forms like that, but we know that Dusk Lycanroc is available in both games.

I wouldn't exile that idea just yet, after all Dusk Lycanroc is very similar to Midday Lycanroc. So Dawn Lycanroc can then be the slight variant to Midnight Lycanroc, a more hairier version one would imagine.

 

[Akashin]

I wouldn't exile that idea just yet, after all Dusk Lycanroc is very similar to Midday Lycanroc. So Dawn Lycanroc can then be the slight variant to Midnight Lycanroc, a more hairier version one would imagine.

Aesthetically yes (though even there it takes definite cues from both Midday and Midnight), but in terms of function it's definitely a middle ground. They've made a point of giving it access to both of their 'signature' moves, and given it personality qualities of both. Never say never, I suppose, but I can't really see what purpose a fourth Lycanroc would serve besides having something to make a bit more reminiscent of Midnight Lycanroc and tack the Dawn name onto.

 

[Erron Black]

I wouldn't exile that idea just yet, after all Dusk Lycanroc is very similar to Midday Lycanroc. So Dawn Lycanroc can then be the slight variant to Midnight Lycanroc, a more hairier version one would imagine.

The problem with Dawn/Dusk isn't with Dusk being a mix of the two it's that Dusk Lycanroc is tied to an event.

 

[Dragon Pulse]

The problem with Dawn/Dusk isn't with Dusk being a mix of the two it's that Dusk Lycanroc is tied to an event.

It was shown that the Rockruff you get via Mystery Gift in Ultra Sun has Fire Fang, while in Ultra Moon it has Thunder Fang. They could do the same by making the event Rockruff evolve into Dusk Lycanroc in Ultra Sun, and evolving into Dawn Lycanroc in Ultra Moon.

 

[knightwolf09]

It was shown that the Rockruff you get via Mystery Gift in Ultra Sun has Fire Fang, while in Ultra Moon it has Thunder Fang. They could do the same by making the event Rockruff evolve into Dusk Lycanroc in Ultra Sun, and evolving into Dawn Lycanroc in Ultra Moon.

So I guess Ultra Moon players got the short end for Rockruff cause I think Fire Fang is the best fang move for it

 

[ShadowForce720]

It was shown that the Rockruff you get via Mystery Gift in Ultra Sun has Fire Fang, while in Ultra Moon it has Thunder Fang. They could do the same by making the event Rockruff evolve into Dusk Lycanroc in Ultra Sun, and evolving into Dawn Lycanroc in Ultra Moon.

Except then why is this supposed Dawn form still being hidden, because I could understand if Lycanroc's exclusive Z-move hasn't been revealed yet and Dawn was being hidden as well, but the problem here is that they revealed the exclusive Z-move for Lycanroc and showed all 3 forms of Lycanroc doing it, you would think that if there was going to be a Dawn form they would have at the very least revealed at the same time as the exclusive Lycanroc Z-move so they could show all 4 Lycanroc's performing it at the same time. Plus from the way the Rockruff is being marketed it seems more likely the only difference between the Rockruff that you get from distribution in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon is that one has Fire Fang the and the other has Thunder Fang but other then that in both versions they can evolve into Dusk Lycanroc.

I feel like this is sort of similar to the Oricorio Tapu situation back when we thought that all 4 forms of Oricorio's primary types where going to the match up with the primary types of the tapus and yet when rest of the tapu's were revealed that turned out not to be the case. So I know some people see Dusk Mane Necrozma and Dawn Wings Necrozma and think that it must mean that there is a Dawn Lycanroc, but I don't really think that will be the case because there in different situations with the 2 Necrozma forms their not suppose to represent a mix between Solagaleo and Lunala and Dusk Mane Necrozma has Solagaleo's signature move while Dawn Wings Necrozma has Lunala's signature move but neither of the forms have opposites pokemon signature move.

While in the case of Dusk Lycanrock it has both Midday's and Midnight's signature moves and doesn't have a signature move of it's own and represent a mixture between the 2, even if it may look more like Midday Lycanroc in all honesty what does a Dawn Lycanroc even offer, I mean the only thing it really offers is that oh it would look more like Midnight so the change being purely aesthetic with Dawn Lycanroc basically just being a version of Dusk Lycanrock that just happens to look more like Midnight Lycanroc.

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

In the sense that these new UBs demolish the previous notion that they won't introduce new Pokemon mid-Generation, yes, but at the same time it's hard to see new Ultra Beasts in a game centered around them as evidence that they would add new ordinary Pokemon as well. It's less impossible than it used to be, but I wouldn't really bank on it at the moment.

As for a Dawn Lycanroc, I doubt it. Dusk Lycanroc already establishes more or less a middle ground between the two existing ones, so I can't really see what purpose there would be in a fourth form besides having one aligned with Dawn to parallel the one aligned with Dusk. To say nothing of the fact that they'd almost certainly go the exclusive route with them if there were two forms like that, but we know that Dusk Lycanroc is available in both games.

Honestly, considering they keep doing things no one ever expected to happen, I think it's best we stop doubting the possibilites.

Expect anything at this point.

 

[lemoncatpower]

Lolol dawn lycanroc... that'd just be annoying, like yea we get it it's the lucario of this gen we don't need 50 forms for it and special distributions to get all forms. If they have yet another form hidden in the game... that'd be lycan-overkill. Use that time to work on other new forms of pokemon please

 

[Grey Wind]

Expect anything at this point.

Just because they do stuff to subvert expectations doesn't mean we can't make educated guesses. Realistically, there's no reason for us to expect another Lycanroc right now and I really doubt it's gonna happen. We've had extensive coverage of its Dusk form, a new Z-move for it, a detailed distribution method etc. I doubt they'll be like "oh here's another one" at this point.

 

[john90]

Since the new UBs are basically and obviously new Pokémon, can we expect them to introduce any more that aren't UBs?

Also, I find it interesting Necrozma's new forms are called Dusk Mane and Dawn Wings, respectively. Could we expect there to be a Dawn Lycanroc with this case? I also really want them to give the starters' final evolutions new forms, Mega Evolutions, or something to make them interesting again since mostly everyone has used all three at some point and it'd seem repetitive to use one of them all over again.

At first I hoped so, but in my language (Italian) there's not such thing cause Necrozma forms are called Mane of Vespers and Wings of Aurora while the Lycanroc form is called Twilight Form, which can refer to both.
Also consider that the Dusk form will appear from 5:00pm to 5:59pm and while it's dusk in Us on the other hand it is Dawn in Um.

 

[Lykouros]

Since the new UBs are basically and obviously new Pokémon, can we expect them to introduce any more that aren't UBs?

One thing to consider is that UBs are literally from another dimension, thus it makes sense that there might be new ones that in-universe professors haven't seen. But standard pokemon that exist in the region have presumably been there for a while. It's hard to imagine how they could come out and say "hey, we discovered this new pokemon!" when it's the same region.

That said, every new generation lampshades that trend by introducing the regional dex, so it's not impossible.

 

[R_N]

One thing to consider is that UBs are literally from another dimension, thus it makes sense that there might be new ones that in-universe professors haven't seen. But standard pokemon that exist in the region have presumably been there for a while. It's hard to imagine how they could come out and say "hey, we discovered this new pokemon!" when it's the same region.

That said, every new generation lampshades that trend by introducing the regional dex, so it's not impossible.

The best way to handle it, if they do introduce more new pokemon, is to just not acknowledge it in-universe. It's a different version, they don't NEED to go "WHOA LOOK AT THIS BRAND NEW POKEMON". That said this is the same series that presented an entire established region full of new pokemon literally right next to another region as "NEW". This specific note of "Oak discovered 100 new pokemon" was removed in the remakes for obvious reasons and then also presented the Fairy type as something newly disocvered despite fairy types being in Kalos (& world wide) for minimum hundreds of years

 

[PrinceOfFacade]

The best way to handle it, if they do introduce more new pokemon, is to just not acknowledge it in-universe. It's a different version, they don't NEED to go "WHOA LOOK AT THIS BRAND NEW POKEMON". That said this is the same series that presented an entire established region full of new pokemon literally right next to another region as "NEW". This specific note of "Oak discovered 100 new pokemon" was removed in the remakes for obvious reasons and then also presented the Fairy type as something newly disocvered despite fairy types being in Kalos (& world wide) for minimum hundreds of years

Pokémon is a retcon's retcon. I'm sure it's not surprising for any of us at this point.

Still, if they're going to put an effort into having good, strong stories (and it seems like that's their intention), they're going to have to get their story straight. Literally. Someone needs to take a little time and draw out the official lore timeline for the series. If USUM is going to hold anything, it's an incredibly large anti-canon missile of a plot.

 

[RedJirachi]

Pokémon is a retcon's retcon. I'm sure it's not surprising for any of us at this point.

Still, if they're going to put an effort into having good, strong stories (and it seems like that's their intention), they're going to have to get their story straight. Literally. Someone needs to take a little time and draw out the official lore timeline for the series. If USUM is going to hold anything, it's an incredibly large anti-canon missile of a plot.

I don't care much about the retcons, though some self-awareness to it is better than none. The concept of Ultra Space just makes it easier to justify

 

[King Shuckle]

Isn't USUM set during the same timeline as SM? So couldn't they just pretend the events of SM didn't happen and the events in USUM are the true canon in the game series? (Like how FRLG became the new Kanto canon instead of RBYG). New could've inhabited Alola the entire time, they just weren't encounterable during SM. It would kind of explain why there is no National Dex in SM. Makes you wonder if anything after UBs get renumbered or will Assembly and Burst be after Marshadow?

And how will they handle Assembly and Burst having no models in SM? Maybe through an update? I mean, what if you battle online using Moon against someone with Ultra Sun and they have Assembly on their team? The mind reels.

 

[Thure]

And how will they handle Assembly and Burst having no models in SM? Maybe through an update? I mean, what if you battle online using Moon against someone with Ultra Sun and they have Assembly on their team? The mind reels.

The same way they handled the new Mega Pokemon in ORAS? You couldn't use them if the enemy uses XY.

 

[Shine]

I honestly don't understand why did the translation team choose to use the name "Dusk Form" for the new Lycanroc form.

Had they kept the Japanese name (Twilight Form), it would have been less confusing.
People won't think there will be another unrevealed form (since "Twilight" doesn't have a counterpart word), especially after Dawn Necrozma is revealed.

 

[Akashin]

I honestly don't understand why did the translation team choose to use the name "Dusk Form" for the new Lycanroc form.

Had they kept the Japanese name (Twilight Form), it would have been less confusing.
People won't think there will be another unrevealed form (since "Twilight" doesn't have a counterpart word), especially after Dawn Necrozma is revealed.

Tasogare can mean either Dusk or Twilight, so technically they didn't even change the form name. And unless I'm mistaken, Tasogare is also the word used for Dusk Mane Necrozma. So regardless of which word they chose to use in the localization, that comparison between Dusk Lycanroc and Dusk Mane Necrozma more or less exists in Japanese too.

 

[Erron Black]

And how will they handle Assembly and Burst having no models in SM? Maybe through an update? I mean, what if you battle online using Moon against someone with Ultra Sun and they have Assembly on their team? The mind reels.

Just like in XY and ORAS. If the user had say, Cameruptite on their Camerupt in ORAS, they wouldn't be able to battle anyone on XY, and using Battle Spot would only put them in battles with others using ORAS.

So in this case if you have a UB Assembly/UB Burst/Dusk Lycanroc/Kommo-oium/Lycanium/Dusk or Dawn Necrozma, you wouldn't be able to battle someone in SUMO.

 

[Lykouros]

The best way to handle it, if they do introduce more new pokemon, is to just not acknowledge it in-universe. It's a different version, they don't NEED to go "WHOA LOOK AT THIS BRAND NEW POKEMON". That said this is the same series that presented an entire established region full of new pokemon literally right next to another region as "NEW". This specific note of "Oak discovered 100 new pokemon" was removed in the remakes for obvious reasons and then also presented the Fairy type as something newly disocvered despite fairy types being in Kalos (& world wide) for minimum hundreds of years

I agree with this. It would be welcome if an official canon timeline could be chosen with explanations for some of the new pokemon. One explanation they could go with is, "All pokemon are known in every region, but only the ones native to that region are in the pokedex". That leaves holes regarding trainers that only have pokemon from X region, but it would set something straight for pokedex canon.