New Pokémon/Formes Discussion & Speculation

[Leosnake]

They just banned the mega stones, though, which is a lot more straightforward than having to ban ~5-10 different families. Like, there are probably ways around the compatibility issue but I just don't think it's particularly likely.

They could do a patch and they will have to make some bans/ changes anyway depending on how the new forms of the legendaries come into play.

Any case of forms being introduced later in a Generation has resulted in them being exclusive to that game (and whatever comes after, in the case of Giratina-O and HGSS), with the exception of Mega Lati@s due to them being in the coding for XY. Giratina-O, Black/White Kyurem, Keldeo Resolute Forme, etc. were all exclusive to their later games.

Which is why they could do this with new Alolan forms right? I mean they will probably have to do this with the new legendary forms anyway. Or do s similar thing they did with the original red/blue and yellow games along with the original gold/ silver and crystal. Where you are limited to what you can trade back and forth but certain things, such as certain Pokemon or moves can not be traded over to the previous games.

Out of curiosity, what would the timeline placement of these games have to do with anything? BW2 being two years past BW had no bearing on anything, if that's what you were getting at.

It is not so much the BW and BW2 time line idea as such and more to do with the fact that the more time passes the more likely new Pokemon. Alalon form or otherwise can start to appear or arrive in Alola. Which story wise would make sense since they said there will be new Pokemon not in the previous Sun and Moon that is also an alternate story set in the same world as Sun and Moon.

 

[.Aerodactyl.]

There's nothing saying they can't, but if they didn't patch XY for ORAS I can't imagine why they will now.

I think they're honestly gonna do whatever their market research predicts will be the most profitable. I don't think they'd want to give away new Pokémon to SuMo, they'd want people to buy the games for it to experience them. I think new Pokémon/forms are also a big selling feature as well. I think some possibilities they have if they go the route of new Pokémon/forms are:

1. Patch SuMo to recognize any new Pokémon online.
2. Exclude any new forms from online battle/trade.
3. Create a system that auto eliminates online contact to players from previous games when you have new content.

Here's another thought, what are they gonna do about customization options for that matter? We now see our trainers in the background of fights and UsUm will obviously have new styles. What did they do for ORAS again?

 

[Grey Wind]

They could do a patch and they will have to make some bans/ changes anyway depending on how the new forms of the legendaries come into play.

Which is why they could do this with new Alolan forms right? I mean they will probably have to do this with the new legendary forms anyway. Or do s similar thing they did with the original red/blue and yellow games along with the original gold/ silver and crystal. Where you are limited to what you can trade back and forth but certain things, such as certain Pokemon or moves can not be traded over to the previous games.

They could do a patch (or whatever else), but if they didn't do one when ORAS was released I don't see why they would now. It's not really a case of it being completely impossible to facilitate compatibility, it's more about how likely it actually is for them to go through the trouble.

And no, like I said, new Alolan Pokemon are not the same as new megas or forms. It was easy for the to just ban the mega stones/Griseous orb and the like, but it's more complicated when they have what's essentially a new Pokemon on their hands. Again, not technically impossible to get around, but you have to weigh up how likely it is to happen.

 

[Everstoned]

I'm not understanding why people think that Alolan forms would cause any more trouble for online compatibility than new megas did in gen 6. There were two different rulesets, one being for XY and one being for ORAS, so that any communications involving at least one XY user would ban the new items/moves that were exclusive to ORAS. The same could be done for SM and USUM. While yes, thematically, Alolan forms are entirely separate pokemon, data-wise they are new forms like any other. This wouldn't be the first set of games that released new forms for pokemon that weren't battle-exclusive within the same generation. Not to say that it's a sure thing there will be new Alolan forms, but nothing is stopping them in terms of practicality. People said the same thing when ORAS was announced, going so far as to think that there wouldn't even be new megas for the other two Hoenn starters due to compatibility issues. Yet look where we are now.

As far as the new Necrozma-Solgaleo/Lunala forms that just got revealed, I agree with what somebody posted earlier about them being Necrozma and using light/energy from the box legends to create these new forms. Just a personal hunch. I wonder if any UBs will have new forms as well.

 

[EverChanger]

I feel like the way Game Freak approaches lore might allow for new Alolan variants to be introduced, but only if their "normal" versions weren't in the original Sun & Moon Pokédex. As an example, they probably won't introduce Alolan Abra because we've already seen normal Abra in Alola, but they could perhaps introduce Alolan Mr. Mime because it has not been seen in Alola yet and hence would not directly contradict Sun & Moon's ecosystem (i.e. they were always there but only now have they made themselves known to humans). It's not the perfect solution, but it's a possibility given Game Freak's past approaches to this kind of thing.

Of course, either way, there's basically a zero percent chance the original Sun & Moon will get updated to support the new forms. I think we can all agree on that.

 

[Leosnake]

They could do a patch (or whatever else), but if they didn't do one when ORAS was released I don't see why they would now. It's not really a case of it being completely impossible to facilitate compatibility, it's more about how likely it actually is for them to go through the trouble.

And no, like I said, new Alolan Pokemon are not the same as new megas or forms. It was easy for the to just ban the mega stones/Griseous orb and the like, but it's more complicated when they have what's essentially a new Pokemon on their hands. Again, not technically impossible to get around, but you have to weigh up how likely it is to happen.

Assuming that they didn't deliberately hold the stuff back to put in via patch later because they knew there was a high chance of the game being data mined. I mean for them to come out this soon they must have been working on them along side the original Sun and Moon right?

But to change the subject in that case since either way they will probably have some new Pokemon from previous generations. Who do you think they will make catchable in the games this time that were not previously catchable in the original Sun and Moon? Since based on their comments in the direct there will be some Pokemon that are different new forms or otherwise.

Personally I would like to see Tropius appear for obvious reasons but I mostly think more gen 2 Pokemon will appear. Given what was said in the previous games about the distance between Alola and Kanto. Considering Kanto and Johto are right next to each other. Octillery and Mantine perhaps? Slugma and Magcargo could be good for the Volcano area too.

 

[BCVM22]

While yes, thematically, Alolan forms are entirely separate pokemon, data-wise they are new forms like any other.

It's the other way around, completely. Data-wise they are entirely separate Pokémon. Thematically, they're forms of existing Pokémon. Which is the major and prohibitive issue ignored by anyone who says "they could/should/will add new Alolan forms."

This wouldn't be the first set of games that released new forms for pokemon that weren't battle-exclusive within the same generation.

And on every one of those occasions, the new forms were the result of an item or a move, far more easily blocked from linked play. Again, that's the key issue: Alolan forms are "forms" in name and appearance only and are separate and distinct Pokémon in every other facet.

People said the same thing when ORAS was announced, going so far as to think that there wouldn't even be new megas for the other two Hoenn starters due to compatibility issues. Yet look where we are now.

But again, despite what seem like similarities on the surface, Alolan forms and Mega Evolutions couldn't be more different, in terms of what they are and how they work.

 

[Nunn]

I just want megas again.

 

[Leosnake]

I just want megas again.

Maybe they will make a come back next Gen or when the do eventually do DP remakes.

 

[Grey Wind]

Assuming that they didn't deliberately hold the stuff back to put in via patch later because they knew there was a high chance of the game being data mined. I mean for them to come out this soon they must have been working on them along side the original Sun and Moon right?

But, again, they've never done that before (or cared about potential datamining) and there's no reason to assume that they'd do it now.

But to change the subject in that case since either way they will probably have some new Pokemon from previous generations. Who do you think they will make catchable in the games this time that were not previously catchable in the original Sun and Moon? Since based on their comments in the direct there will be some Pokemon that are different new forms or otherwise.

I hope they add stuff that hasn't been seen in regional dexes much if they're expanding it. The likes of Venonat, Jynx, Togepi, Teddiursa, Natu, Cacnea and Shinx. There's also a couple of areas that I thought got kind of repetitive with their distribution (later Ula'Ula, parts of Poni kind of) that I'd like to see have Pokemon added to them, even if they don't actually make the dex bigger.

 

[Everstoned]

It's the other way around, completely. Data-wise they are entirely separate Pokémon. Thematically, they're forms of existing Pokémon. Which is the major and prohibitive issue ignored by anyone who says "they could/should/will add new Alolan forms."

Do you have a source on this? AFAIK they are treated just like forms in the data. Breeding and evolution mechanics differ in-game as opposed to other form changes, but in any data editing program available, they are treated like alternate forms. If I recall correctly, the datamine also did not have Alolan forms listed into entirely new pokemon slots but subsets of other pokemon. Again, please show me if I'm wrong.

And on every one of those occasions, the new forms were the result of an item or a move, far more easily blocked from linked play. Again, that's the key issue: Alolan forms are "forms" in name and appearance only and are separate and distinct Pokémon in every other facet

Again, do you have a source as to why this would be more difficult? Even if I am wrong and they are coded as individual pokemon and not listed as a subset like I believe they are, why can they not be blocked from communications between SM and USUM? It doesn't matter if they aren't coded into the original SM. All that needs to happen is that when communications are opened, new items/moved/pokemon are checked for and if they are present, they cannot be offered for trade or the battle will not begin.

If you could explain why it would be challenging, that would be great. Otherwise, I'll remain skeptical on whether or not it's possible. I remember when ORAS was announced, and talk of new megas, new items, and new moves being in one set of games that weren't coded into the previous pair was just as controversial then.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

I just can't see banning new regional variants from online features with SM being a problem so big to be a reason to abolish the entire idea. I mean, banning regional variants is already happening in the pokémon battle competitions all the time, in the Alola-Dex only competitions they ban the Kanto regional variants of stuff like Dugtrio and Sandslash, but not the Alola variants. In the upcoming Tiny Tourney, Kanto Persian is allowed but Alola Persian isn't. Kanto Muk isn't allowed but Alola Muk is. I don't really know exactly how it's all coded in, separate pokémon or not, but they clearly have the ability to recognise and block regional variants, I just can't imagine blocking new ones from entering SM would be an obstacle big enough to abolish the idea.

 

[.Aerodactyl.]

If I recall correctly, the GTC actually only let's you look up the original. You can't specify the Alolan variant in your request. I also wonder what they're gonna do with trainer sprites of the new trainer's, since they have new customization options. I think, over all, regardless of it we get new Alolan forms, there is things to consider in terms of compatability. I could be wrong and am entirely okay with that, but my gut instinct is they we will get some Alolan variants because new Pokémon sell new games.

 

[AmbipomMaster]

I think they're honestly gonna do whatever their market research predicts will be the most profitable. I don't think they'd want to give away new Pokémon to SuMo, they'd want people to buy the games for it to experience them. I think new Pokémon/forms are also a big selling feature as well. I think some possibilities they have if they go the route of new Pokémon/forms are:

1. Patch SuMo to recognize any new Pokémon online.
2. Exclude any new forms from online battle/trade.
3. Create a system that auto eliminates online contact to players from previous games when you have new content.

Here's another thought, what are they gonna do about customization options for that matter? We now see our trainers in the background of fights and UsUm will obviously have new styles. What did they do for ORAS again?

When you battled someone from ORAS on XY, the ORAS trainer would have a standard XY character sprite, which I can see happening for SM and USUM.

Also, having new Alolan forms seems highly likely. You all remember Spiky-eared Pichu in HGSS? I imagine it'd be a similar situation to that tbh

 

[shadowF]

So at the end of the day is there a strong chance of us seeing new Pokemon (either new or Alolan form) in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon? If so can someone back it up with evidence? or back up with evidence why you think there will be no new Pokemon or forms?

 

[RileyXY1]

Although new Pokemon in the third game is unprecedented, GF can surprise us. Who expected that they would remove gyms?

 

[Snickerdoodle]

I really hope we get some gen 2 Alola forms. That'll ease my salt about the lack of Crystal for VC! I'm hoping against hope for an Alolan Mareep line and maybe Girafarig and Dunspace.

 

[.Aerodactyl.]

So at the end of the day is there a strong chance of us seeing new Pokemon (either new or Alolan form) in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon? If so can someone back it up with evidence? or back up with evidence why you think there will be no new Pokemon or forms?

At this point, neither case is arguable. We know so very little about the game. I mean, some people are already theorizing z-forms again based on one image. I'd say wait for another info drop first.

 

[Mr.Munchlax]

I really hope we get some gen 2 Alola forms. That'll ease my salt about the lack of Crystal for VC! I'm hoping against hope for an Alolan Mareep line and maybe Girafarig and Dunspace.

Gen II Alola forms seem a little likely due to how they've been pushing for Johto through Pokémon Go and Gold & Silver's virtual console release, but it's still too soon to tell.

 

[Woodsman]

Gen II Alola forms seem a little likely due to how they've been pushing for Johto through Pokémon Go and Gold & Silver's virtual console release, but it's still too soon to tell.

There were also a ton of references to immigrants from Johto in the original games. I think Heahea City and Konikoni City are mentioned to have large Johtoan populations, and Malie City was quite literally designed by Johtoan immigrants to the point where Malie garden's ponds are styled like a Gyarados to reference the Lake of Rage. Plus the Apricorn balls being present (even if it's only one of each per game file). It makes sense that said immigrants would bring Pokemon native to Johto with them, much like Alola forms from Gen I. So if we're getting new Alola forms, there's a good chance they'll be of Gen II's Pokemon.