New Pokémon/Formes Discussion & Speculation

[Zaide]

What I'd like is a Dawn form that is based primarly on the midnight form but with some midday form features. Much like the Dusk form is primarly based on the midday form with midnight form features.

But I doubt that's going to happen because of the pokédex slot thingy that has been talked about for a few months which lead to speculations about a 3rd form.

 

[knightwolf09]

Since people were talking about changes that could be made to Dusk form to make it look more like an in-between, I edited the screenshots we got:

View attachment 16831

The changes are small. Basically I changed the rock spikes so they resemble Midnight's side rocks; the legs and nose have slightly longer white stripes; one of the ears is crooked; the back mane is more like a combination of Midnight and Midday and not just a bigger Midday; the tail is cropped; the fur on the chest is a bit more like Midnight's.

I don't hate the new form, however I will be a bit disappointed if this is their idea of "in between". They can call it what they will but being in between Midday and Midnight isn't accurate.

I think I can see some of the changes you mentioned, but overall honestly I don't notice much of a difference compared to what we just got. The first time I looked at it I though you just linked the images on the sight and I had to look hard to notice something. I said this a lot but I think it's a good blend of the two, there was some that drew Dusk for that really justifies it, but I think I'm not allowed to talk about artwork here.

 

[Erron Black]

I think the main issue is everyone was expecting something along the lines of Rotom's forms different, which tbh was really unlikely to begin with.

Regardless, it's something new and could mean we're getting more alternate forms so I'm thankful for that.(Oricorio maybe?)

 

[Akashin]

I don't hate the new form, however I will be a bit disappointed if this is their idea of "in between". They can call it what they will but being in between Midday and Midnight isn't accurate.

Has any official source actually called it an in-between sort of thing? I thought that was just a fan thing based on a combination of anime context and the form's name, but I could be wrong. It obviously is a form that takes cues from both existing ones, but I haven't heard them say it's meant to be a true combination of the two.

 

[knightwolf09]

Has any official source actually called it an in-between sort of thing? I thought that was just a fan thing based on a combination of anime context and the form's name, but I could be wrong. It obviously is a form that takes cues from both existing ones, but I haven't heard them say it's meant to be a true combination of the two.

I thought that was obvious. Like how twilight is between day and night, so is this form. I never seen actual descriptions of pokemon talk about how a one is designed

 

[Akashin]

I thought that was obvious. Like how twilight is between day and night, so is this form. I never seen actual descriptions of pokemon talk about how a one is designed

Yes, and I said as much. But as far as I know 'they' have never called it an in-between form as such, or implied that it was truly meant to look like a complete combination of the two rather than looking like Midday sprinkled with aspects of Midnight.

 

[Lykouros]

I think I can see some of the changes you mentioned, but overall honestly I don't notice much of a difference compared to what we just got. The first time I looked at it I though you just linked the images on the sight and I had to look hard to notice something. I said this a lot but I think it's a good blend of the two, there was some that drew Dusk for that really justifies it, but I think I'm not allowed to talk about artwork here.

To be honest, I didn't realize the image updated so tiny. No wonder the changes are barely visible. That said, I didn't make huge changes, I only made changes that I thought would make it resemble Midnight slightly more while still maintaining the integrity of the original design.

I'll see about making the image the original dimension! Edit: Fixed It's still a small image, and the changes aren't huge, but feel free to view again.

But as far as I know 'they' have never called it an in-between form as such, or implied that it was truly meant to look like a complete combination of the two rather than looking like Midday sprinkled with aspects of Midnight.

I'm not sure on this, I just read through this thread after being away for a long time and saw a few people saying it was supposed to be a combination or something. If it's not meant to be a combination of any sort, then I'm fine accepting it as an alternate form of Midday specifically. The only trait I see from Midnight is the slightly larger mane, but that doesn't even have to be from Midnight (it doesn't share any of the mane's characteristics), it could just be a bigger mane for the sake of it.

 

[Bguy7]

Or it could have Fur Coat, that kinda fits with all that floof. Meh.

That would probably make a little more sense. Still, you picked another pretty exclusive ability. Before Alolan Persian, it was Furfrou's Signature Ability. Since Persian exists, it's surely possible, but still, the fact that only to Pokémon have the ability out of all the thick-furred Pokémon there are makes it seem a little on the unlikely side.

Yes, and I said as much. But as far as I know 'they' have never called it an in-between form as such, or implied that it was truly meant to look like a complete combination of the two rather than looking like Midday sprinkled with aspects of Midnight.

To my knowledge no one in any official capacity has said that, but to be fair, this is the sort of thing that they don't normally state, and it is fairly obvious.

I'm not sure on this, I just read through this thread after being away for a long time and saw a few people saying it was supposed to be a combination or something. If it's not meant to be a combination of any sort, then I'm fine accepting it as an alternate form of Midday specifically. The only trait I see from Midnight is the slightly larger mane, but that doesn't even have to be from Midnight (it doesn't share any of the mane's characteristics), it could just be a bigger mane for the sake of it.

While no official statement has been made, the fact that it is quite literally Midday Form with some traits of Midnight Form pretty much means that's what it is, especially combined with the fact that Dusk is the time between day and night, so a combination of the two makes logical sense. I agree that it could have been designed better, but it is indeed a combination.

 

[XanderCage]

I agree with the people saying that an "in-between" design between midday and midnight could only do so much and that one of them had to be a base of it. I like that they kept the quadruped design of midday and really enjoy the coloring. I do feel that they could have mixed some minor features to make this seem like a more in-between. Things i would have liked to see was:

Heterochromia (although the fact that it has green eyes works fine for me)
One straight and one floppy ear - just hammer home that its a mix between the two
Midnight form's fur belt/rib cage thing. If it just had this, the whole design would be a win for me.
And finally, have a different in-game stance. It needs a new stance to differentiate itself from midday. At a quick glance it could definitely be misconstrued as an alternate colored midday form. Hopefully, they just altered midday's design for the reveal and the full game will have a new stance although I doubt it.

Overall, I'm happy with the design. One way or the other you'd be getting a quadruped or a biped as the third form so it was always going to look like one more than the other.

 

[willprogresivo]

Yay, more pokemon... forms.

Because god forbid we actually have to memorize over 800 names.

Screw you, GF. Make new pokemon.

 

[Akashin]

I agree with the people saying that an "in-between" design between midday and midnight could only do so much and that one of them had to be a base of it. I like that they kept the quadruped design of midday and really enjoy the coloring. I do feel that they could have mixed some minor features to make this seem like a more in-between. Things i would have liked to see was:

Heterochromia (although the fact that it has green eyes works fine for me)
One straight and one floppy ear - just hammer home that its a mix between the two
Midnight form's fur belt/rib cage thing. If it just had this, the whole design would be a win for me.
And finally, have a different in-game stance. It needs a new stance to differentiate itself from midday. At a quick glance it could definitely be misconstrued as an alternate colored midday form. Hopefully, they just altered midday's design for the reveal and the full game will have a new stance although I doubt it.

Overall, I'm happy with the design. One way or the other you'd be getting a quadruped or a biped as the third form so it was always going to look like one more than the other.

Heterochromia would have been cool, but Dusk Lycanroc's eyes change as it evolves and will presumably do so with certain attacks too, so they at least didn't completely ignore the idea of giving it red eyes.

Yay, more pokemon... forms.

Because god forbid we actually have to memorize over 800 names.

Screw you, GF. Make new pokemon.

And you expected them to do this in the middle of a generation... because?

 

[Cometstarlight]

And you expected them to do this in the middle of a generation... because?

Yeah, they never introduce 'new' Pokemon in the middle of a generation unless they're teasing for the next one, which I don't think will happen for a bit longer.

 

[knightwolf09]

Oh yeah, another neath thing I noticed, if you look at Dusk's fur parts of it resemble a sun and moon. The spikes on his neck are like sunrays, and the mohawk as well as the tuft on it's chest form a crescent.

 

[Nerdy McNerdface]

I actually have a little theory on the new form.

While the design may be a lot more like midday than midnight, if you take a closer look then it actually makes a bit of sense. The orange and green of dusk settles at a nice halfway between beige-ish yellow/blue and maroon/red. Plus, while the mane isn't that much longer than midday's, it is definitely longer. I could compare it to the concept of vampires in my favourite book series, Skulduggery Pleasant. In that series, the vampires transform into something completely different really quickly the moment the sun goes down, but at one point a vampire's transformation is abruptly stopped halfway, and the character is described as looking mostly human, but with noticeable vampire traits such as fangs and claws. Dusk Lycanroc could be seen as a sort of trapped halfway kind of thing like that. I'm probably just rambling, but I'm just trying to say hat it makes sense to me.

 

[Ambyssin]

I don't hate the new Lycanroc. I just think that the model could've used a few touches to better distinguish Dusk from Midday. I am colorblind to some degree, so unless I'm looking at Dusk from the right angle there's pretty much nothing I can use to differentiate it from Midday. The color change isn't pronounced enough on the model. Anime's another story, though.

 

[Lykouros]

I don't hate the new Lycanroc. I just think that the model could've used a few touches to better distinguish Dusk from Midday. I am colorblind to some degree, so unless I'm looking at Dusk from the right angle there's pretty much nothing I can use to differentiate it from Midday. The color change isn't pronounced enough on the model. Anime's another story, though.

This is an interesting perspective I didn't think of, thanks for sharing. I agree with you that the anime still we got looks really cool and I can actually see the differences in design much better. I also second what XanderCage said regarding having a different stance. If it had a slightly different default stance than Midday it might not look so similar. Granted, we only have two shots from the game currently.

 

[Bus]

Wasn't one of the original leaks for Sun/Moon stating that there were 4 evolutions to Rockruff? It's a bit of a stretch (a huge stretch, actually), but what if there's yet another form; a Twilight Form; bringing the possible evolutions up to 4 for Rockruff like in the earlier leak? I mean, having a form between Day and night (Dusk), but not one for between Night and Day (Dawn/Twilight) when the two were originally version exclusive seems a bit odd; especially considering that this is yet another 'double' version (like Black 2/White 2). We could end up having Dusk & Midday for Ultra Sun and Midnight & Dawn for Ultra Moon (or the other way around just to switch things up).

 

[Akashin]

Wasn't one of the original leaks for Sun/Moon stating that there were 4 evolutions to Rockruff? It's a bit of a stretch (a huge stretch, actually), but what if there's yet another form; a Twilight Form; bringing the possible evolutions up to 4 for Rockruff like in the earlier leak? I mean, having a form between Day and night (Dusk), but not one for between Night and Day (Dawn/Twilight) when the two were originally version exclusive seems a bit odd; especially considering that this is yet another 'double' version (like Black 2/White 2). We could end up having Dusk & Midday for Ultra Sun and Midnight & Dawn for Ultra Moon (or the other way around just to switch things up).

I remember what you're talking about, but I'm pretty sure the rumor in question said something about Rockruff having four wholly separate evolutions involving taking it to specific points on each of the four islands. I can't imagine that rumor suddenly being relevant now, to say nothing of the fact that--as you said--the rumor said these four evolutions would have existed in Sun and Moon.

And for the record, Dusk Lycanroc actually is called Twilight Lycanroc in at least German, and IIRC the Japanese name can be translated as Twilight as well.

 

[Nunn]

So I need some clarification.

People are saying that "Lycanroc Dusk" is a mistranslation, and that it's actually closer to "Lycanroc Twilight" based off of translations from other languages.

So what's the deal?

 

[Akashin]

So I need some clarification.

People are saying that "Lycanroc Dusk" is a mistranslation, and that it's actually closer to "Lycanroc Twilight" based off of translations from other languages.

So what's the deal?

Huh, I haven't heard anybody calling it a mistranslation. It's just the English name that it's been given. But it is called Twilight Form in German, and the Japanese name can be translated as either Dusk or Twilight. It's not a matter of one being right and the other wrong.