New Pokémon/Formes Discussion & Speculation

[Steampunk]

Design-wise they are very strongly Solgaleo and Lunala respectively, but given the history of third version(I include sequels like BW2 and USUM in my use of the term third versions) I lean more in favor of them being Necrozma forms. Either way I am open to either possibility until it is confirmed.
Necro
The Necrozma parts do look like armor but also given the fact that Necrozma is the prism Pokemon, I could see it more as Necrozma absorbed light (solgaleo/lunala) and is now emitting that light as a part of it's own body.

I do think that if the cover legends turn out to not be necrozma that it would be redundant for Necorzma to get it's own form (not that I would mind getting more forms of a legendary).

Yeah, I think it would make sense for it to be Necrozma forms because the "Solgaleo" and "Lunala" appear to be made out of light, and light refraction would work with Necrozma's whole "Prisim armor" thing.

 

[Bguy7]

Design-wise they are very strongly Solgaleo and Lunala respectively, but given the history of third version(I include sequels like BW2 and USUM in my use of the term third versions) I lean more in favor of them being Necrozma forms. Either way I am open to either possibility until it is confirmed.

While it is true that it would be odd to not have Necrozma himself on cover (even though he technically would be as the armor), I think it's important to remember that these games have a pretty good excuse for why they would change the formula. Third versions are essentially just a retelling of the original story with extra elements added, normally that means using the two original cover Legendaries, but then having the third Legendary taking to spotlight. However, if this story is anything like Sun and Moon, it's going to be hard for Necrozma to take the spotlight from Solgaleo and Lunala due to Nebby's importance in the story. So it would make sense that instead of having Necrozma replace the original cover Legendary, it augments them instead.

Also, just thought I'd point out, by the looks of your comment, you seem to be under the impression that Ultra Sun and Moon are sequels. You should know that they almost certainly are not. For proof, just look to the playable characters. They're the same characters as Sun and Moon, just with new clothes.

I do think that if the cover legends turn out to not be necrozma that it would be redundant for Necorzma to get it's own form (not that I would mind getting more forms of a legendary).

My sentiment exactly, right down to how I would feel if it did happen.

 

[Aielyn]

I definitely like the idea of possible Johto-Alola forms. A few come to mind quite easily...

Alolan Sunflora: Grass/Fire type, evolved to take in large amounts of sunlight and turn it into fire energy. Gets Drought as an ability.
Alolan Girafarig: Psychic/Dark type, it's "dark" tail side had to develop more due to Midnight Form Lycanroc often attacking it (needs to be able to see in both directions, etc). Gets a variant of Parental Bond (new name, same ability).
Alolan Stantler: Psychic/Flying type, it uses its psychic power (developed in response to Crabrawler) to boost its small (Alolan) wings' ability to carry it short distances through the air. Also has a bright nose. Gets Dazzling as an ability.
Alolan Delibird: Dark/Flying type, evolved due to the influence of Team Skull, this version of Delibird is not nearly as generous as its Ice-type counterpart. It uses its bag to steal, rather than sharing food. Can have Pickpocket or Moody.
Alolan Dunsparce: Poison/Dragon type, it evolved in the vicinity of Kommo-o, needing to have some kind of defence. Gets Corrosion as its ability.
Alolan Shuckle: Rock/Ghost type, after having been subject to frequent attacks by Pikipek and Trumbeak, Shuckle was forced to adapt. Can have Rough Skin or Solid Rock (yes, that's right).
Alolan Skarmory: pure Flying type, living in the same area as Salazzle, Skarmory could no longer afford to be weighed down by its steel frame. Base speed is boosted to 140 with base defense dropped to 80. Can have Gale Wings or Aerilate.
Alolan Qwilfish: Water/Steel type, evolved in response to Toxapex. Can have Iron Barbs or Steelworker.


I also like the idea of a few new mega evolutions. They could fill a few more holes in the type combination spread. For example...

Mega Yanmega, a Bug/Dragon type?
Mega Donphan, a Fighting/Ground type?
Mega Rapidash, Fire/Fairy?
Mega Zangoose, Normal/Steel?
Mega Seviper, Poison/Psychic?
Mega Electivire, Electric/Fighting?
Mega Eelektross, Electric/Poison?
Mega Accelgor, Bug/Ice?
Mega Luxray, Electric/Dark?
Mega Granbull, Fighting/Fairy?
Mega Arbok, Poison/Psychic? (think about it - the whole "snake-charming thing")
Mega Weavile, Ice/Poison?

(Also worthy of megas, but not filling holes in the type spread: Magmortar, Jynx, all Starters, Froslass, PorygonZ, Dragonite, Flygon, Bisharp, Ledian, Ariados, Escavalier, Machamp, Bewear, Mismagius, Togekiss, Breloom, Roserade, and Lapras)

 

[Aetius]

The thing is, if these cover Pokémon do turn out to be Solgaleo and Lunala forms, then while they may strictly not be Necrozma forms, they still fill the same niche. It's a possibility, but it's also a redundancy.

Honestly I don't see any redundancy in that.
See it like this; Necrozma gets rid of its armor and literally plants it on Solgaleo and Lunala in order to absorb light from them and achieve its final form.
As you can see, it wouldn't be redundant.
After all, it's not a fusion, a megaevo or anything like that.
It would just be Necrozma getting stronger by draining Solgaleo and Lunala of their energy.
But whetever we're right or wrong, we'll have to wait for more info and possibly the whole game, because I doubt they would reveal plot key points.

 

[Bguy7]

Honestly I don't see any redundancy in that.
See it like this; Necrozma gets rid of its armor and literally plants it on Solgaleo and Lunala in order to absorb light from them and achieve its final form.
As you can see, it wouldn't be redundant.
After all, it's not a fusion, a megaevo or anything like that.
It would just be Necrozma getting stronger by draining Solgaleo and Lunala of their energy.
But whetever we're right or wrong, we'll have to wait for more info and possibly the whole game, because I doubt they would reveal plot key points.

Sure, that's something that could be done, but I would stay say it's still redundant. The new Solgaleo and Lunala forms essentially serve as new Necrozma forms for all intents and purposes, making it so that there's not really much of a need for an actual form. What it comes down to is how much work Game Freak wants to put in, and what there vision is. They could do something similar to what your suggesting, and no one one would be upset, but they could easily chose not to, as there isn't any real need. I tend to assume that people will do the least amount of work needed.

 

[ShadowForce720]

Sure, that's something that could be done, but I would stay say it's still redundant. The new Solgaleo and Lunala forms essentially serve as new Necrozma forms for all intents and purposes, making it so that there's not really much of a need for an actual form. What it comes down to is how much work Game Freak wants to put in, and what there vision is. They could do something similar to what your suggesting, and no one one would be upset, but they could easily chose not to, as there isn't any real need. I tend to assume that people will do the least amount of work needed.

Not really I mean what your suggesting here is that if Solgaleo and Lunala gets Necrozma's armor but Necrozma doesn't get a new form and just loses it's armor without becoming a part of the other 2 legendaries then it's essentially gaining nothing where as Solgaleo and Lunala are gaining new forms. And before you try to bring up the situation with Reshiram and Zekrom with Kyurem, keep in mind in their lore they were all originally a single pokemon, it's not like when Zekrom and Reshiram merge with Kyurem a part of them gets left behind, where as in Necrozma's case it doesn't seem right for it to give away it's armor to Solgaleo or Lunala and gain nothing from it.

I could see if what appears to be Solgaleo and Lunala with Necrozma's armor if they were actually Necrozma whose bending light somehow to make the body that the armor is fitting or if the armor itself is Necrozma and it's attaching to Solgaleo and Lunala, however if it's a situation where Necrozma is giving away it's armor to Solagaleo and Lunala but it's self is a separate pokemon that isn't attached to Solgaleo or Lunala then it makes sense that Necrozma would get a new form and it wouldn't be redundant.

Also the fact that there is literally a light with eyes on the cover box makes me think that it's probably more likely going to be a case where Necrozma gives it armor to Solagleo and Lunala while Necrozma itself is going to gain a new form.

 

[Bguy7]

Not really I mean what your suggesting here is that if Solgaleo and Lunala gets Necrozma's armor but Necrozma doesn't get a new form and just loses it's armor without becoming a part of the other 2 legendaries then it's essentially gaining nothing where as Solgaleo and Lunala are gaining new forms. And before you try to bring up the situation with Reshiram and Zekrom with Kyurem, keep in mind in their lore they were all originally a single pokemon, it's not like when Zekrom and Reshiram merge with Kyurem a part of them gets left behind, where as in Necrozma's case it doesn't seem right for it to give away it's armor to Solgaleo or Lunala and gain nothing from it.

I could see if what appears to be Solgaleo and Lunala with Necrozma's armor if they were actually Necrozma whose bending light somehow to make the body that the armor is fitting or if the armor itself is Necrozma and it's attaching to Solgaleo and Lunala, however if it's a situation where Necrozma is giving away it's armor to Solagaleo and Lunala but it's self is a separate pokemon that isn't attached to Solgaleo or Lunala then it makes sense that Necrozma would get a new form and it wouldn't be redundant.

Also the fact that there is literally a light with eyes on the cover box makes me think that it's probably more likely going to be a case where Necrozma gives it armor to Solagleo and Lunala while Necrozma itself is going to gain a new form.

But for now, all we know Necrozma for is its "armor." My point is, whether you look at it from a design standpoint or lore standpoint, these forms can serve as Necrozma forms, even if that's not what they are. From design, we literally see Necrozma, right there attached to the Pokémon, with a new design. As far as lore is concerned, Necrozma is in some way merging with Lunala and Solgaleo. It is still present in their new forms. I never said that Necrozma has to gain something, I'm saying that the design and lore niche of a new Necrozma form has been filled.

 

[Dialga101010]

Also, just thought I'd point out, by the looks of your comment, you seem to be under the impression that Ultra Sun and Moon are sequels. You should know that they almost certainly are not. For proof, just look to the playable characters. They're the same characters as Sun and Moon, just with new clothes.

I know that they aren't sequels in the sense of they occur next, but as with all 'third versions' I think them to be sequels in that they will enhance the story told in the originals (which it has already been said too in official media). I do agree that the circumstances of these particular games make it more possible than ever for the cover legends to be solgaleo and lunala forms but until it is confirmed I'll place my money on necrozma forms. Anything could happen though.

 

[ShadowForce720]

But for now, all we know Necrozma for is its "armor." My point is, whether you look at it from a design standpoint or lore standpoint, these forms can serve as Necrozma forms, even if that's not what they are. From design, we literally see Necrozma, right there attached to the Pokémon, with a new design. As far as lore is concerned, Necrozma is in some way merging with Lunala and Solgaleo. It is still present in their new forms. I never said that Necrozma has to gain something, I'm saying that the design and lore niche of a new Necrozma form has been filled.

Not really if Necrozma is a separate pokemon from the armor then Solagaleo and Lunala being given Necrozma's armor aren't new Necrozma's forms as they would be new Solagaleo and Lunala forms. From a lore aspect no matter how you look at it if the new forms are just Necrozma giving it's armor to Solagaleo or Lunala, but if the armor is not Necrozma then it doesn't make any sense that Necrozma wouldn't gain a new form and would just disappear.

I mean to give a similar situation that happened with some non-legendary pokemon lets look at the situation with Shelmet and Karrablast when they evolve through trade, Shelmet gives Karrablast it's shell causing Karrablast to evolve into Escavalier, however while Shelmet's shell was a part of Shelmet the shell itself wasn't Shelmet as the pokemon inside the shell was Shelmet and when it gave Karrablast it's shell Shelmet did not just disappear it evolved into Accelgor, just because Karrablast gained Shelmet's shell and evolved into Escavalier does not suddenly mean that Escavalier is being treated as the evolve form of Shelmet and making Accelgor redundant.

That's kind of what your arguing here with Necrozma in the situation that if turns out the Necrozma's armor is not Necrozma itself and while the situation may not be an evolution it's certainly has a similar idea where one pokemon gives another pokemon something that was originally a part of it, what this means is if Necrozma's armor turns out not to be Necrozma itself then no matter how you try to argue it Solgaleo and Lunala gaining Necrozma's armor but the actual Necrozma the pokemon itself being separate from it's armor would mean that the Solgaleo and Lunala gaining it's armor would new Solgaleo and Lunala forms and not new Necrozma forms which would also mean that it would not be redundant and it would make a lot of sense for Necrozma to get a new form.


It's one thing if the armor itself is Necrozma and it's attaching to Solgaleo and Lunala or if the new forms that look like Solgaleo and Lunala aren't with Necrozma attached to them and wind up being a case where Necrozma somehow using light to take on the appearance of Solgaleo and Lunala then it would be new Necrozma's forms however that being said while it's not confirmed that Necrozma's armor isn't Necrozma's itself, it's also true that it hasn't been confirmed nor has it been mentioned anywhere in Necrozma's lore that Necrozma's armor is Necrozma itself, so until we get confirmation that the armor itself is Necrozma, Necrozma getting a new form separate from it's armor can't be really ruled out or called redundant because there is no confirmation that the armor itself is actually Necrozma.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

Not really if Necrozma is a separate pokemon from the armor then Solagaleo and Lunala being given Necrozma's armor aren't new Necrozma's forms as they would be new Solagaleo and Lunala forms. From a lore aspect no matter how you look at it if the new forms are just Necrozma giving it's armor to Solagaleo or Lunala, but if the armor is not Necrozma then it doesn't make any sense that Necrozma wouldn't gain a new form and would just disappear.

I mean to give a similar situation that happened with some non-legendary pokemon lets look at the situation with Shelmet and Karrablast when they evolve through trade, Shelmet gives Karrablast it's shell causing Karrablast to evolve into Escavalier, however while Shelmet's shell was a part of Shelmet the shell itself wasn't Shelmet as the pokemon inside the shell was Shelmet and when it gave Karrablast it's shell Shelmet did not just disappear it evolved into Accelgor, just because Karrablast gained Shelmet's shell and evolved into Escavalier does not suddenly mean that Escavalier is being treated as the evolve form of Shelmet and making Accelgor redundant.

That's kind of what your arguing here with Necrozma in the situation that if turns out the Necrozma's armor is not Necrozma itself and while the situation may not be an evolution it's certainly has a similar idea where one pokemon gives another pokemon something that was originally a part of it, what this means is if Necrozma's armor turns out not to be Necrozma itself then no matter how you try to argue it Solgaleo and Lunala gaining Necrozma's armor but the actual Necrozma the pokemon itself being separate from it's armor would mean that the Solgaleo and Lunala gaining it's armor would new Solgaleo and Lunala forms and not new Necrozma forms which would also mean that it would not be redundant and it would make a lot of sense for Necrozma to get a new form.


It's one thing if the armor itself is Necrozma and it's attaching to Solgaleo and Lunala or if the new forms that look like Solgaleo and Lunala aren't with Necrozma attached to them and wind up being a case where Necrozma somehow using light to take on the appearance of Solgaleo and Lunala then it would be new Necrozma's forms however that being said while it's not confirmed that Necrozma's armor isn't Necrozma's itself, it's also true that it hasn't been confirmed nor has it been mentioned anywhere in Necrozma's lore that Necrozma's armor is Necrozma itself, so until we get confirmation that the armor itself is Necrozma, Necrozma getting a new form separate from it's armor can't be really ruled out or called redundant because there is no confirmation that the armor itself is actually Necrozma.

I'm thinking it's a new type of Fusion.

 

[Bguy7]

Not really if Necrozma is a separate pokemon from the armor then Solagaleo and Lunala being given Necrozma's armor aren't new Necrozma's forms as they would be new Solagaleo and Lunala forms. From a lore aspect no matter how you look at it if the new forms are just Necrozma giving it's armor to Solagaleo or Lunala, but if the armor is not Necrozma then it doesn't make any sense that Necrozma wouldn't gain a new form and would just disappear.

For one, we don't even know that this is Necrozma removing its armor. And second, Necrozma's "armor" is quite literally Necrozma for all we know right now. Everything we know about it, both from design and lore, is centered around what you refer to as armor. That certainly could be changed in Ultra Sun and Moon, but as it stands now, Necrozma is its armor. And as that is all we know right now, that is what makes it redundant to us, regardless of what the actual lore turns out to be.

I mean to give a similar situation that happened with some non-legendary pokemon lets look at the situation with Shelmet and Karrablast when they evolve through trade, Shelmet gives Karrablast it's shell causing Karrablast to evolve into Escavalier, however while Shelmet's shell was a part of Shelmet the shell itself wasn't Shelmet as the pokemon inside the shell was Shelmet and when it gave Karrablast it's shell Shelmet did not just disappear it evolved into Accelgor, just because Karrablast gained Shelmet's shell and evolved into Escavalier does not suddenly mean that Escavalier is being treated as the evolve form of Shelmet and making Accelgor redundant.

That's kind of what your arguing here with Necrozma in the situation that if turns out the Necrozma's armor is not Necrozma itself and while the situation may not be an evolution it's certainly has a similar idea where one pokemon gives another pokemon something that was originally a part of it, what this means is if Necrozma's armor turns out not to be Necrozma itself then no matter how you try to argue it Solgaleo and Lunala gaining Necrozma's armor but the actual Necrozma the pokemon itself being separate from it's armor would mean that the Solgaleo and Lunala gaining it's armor would new Solgaleo and Lunala forms and not new Necrozma forms which would also mean that it would not be redundant and it would make a lot of sense for Necrozma to get a new form.

The difference is, Karrablast and Shelmet were introduced at the same time with the specific gimmick of swapping armor in mind. And then there's the fact that Necrozma doesn't even look like its wearing armor that can be removed, so as far as we know, it's not even wearing armor.

It's one thing if the armor itself is Necrozma and it's attaching to Solgaleo and Lunala or if the new forms that look like Solgaleo and Lunala aren't with Necrozma attached to them and wind up being a case where Necrozma somehow using light to take on the appearance of Solgaleo and Lunala then it would be new Necrozma's forms however that being said while it's not confirmed that Necrozma's armor isn't Necrozma's itself, it's also true that it hasn't been confirmed nor has it been mentioned anywhere in Necrozma's lore that Necrozma's armor is Necrozma itself, so until we get confirmation that the armor itself is Necrozma, Necrozma getting a new form separate from it's armor can't be really ruled out or called redundant because there is no confirmation that the armor itself is actually Necrozma.

To be fair, the safe assumption right now is that it is Necrozma itself being used as armor for Solgaleo and Lunala.

 

[ShadowForce720]

For one, we don't even know that this is Necrozma removing its armor. And second, Necrozma's "armor" is quite literally Necrozma for all we know right now. Everything we know about it, both from design and lore, is centered around what you refer to as armor. That certainly could be changed in Ultra Sun and Moon, but as it stands now, Necrozma is its armor. And as that is all we know right now, that is what makes it redundant to us, regardless of what the actual lore turns out to be.



The difference is, Karrablast and Shelmet were introduced at the same time with the specific gimmick of swapping armor in mind. And then there's the fact that Necrozma doesn't even look like its wearing armor that can be removed, so as far as we know, it's not even wearing armor.



To be fair, the safe assumption right now is that it is Necrozma itself being used as armor for Solgaleo and Lunala.

Actually I think it's safe assumption right now to say that the opposite is true, because if you look at the box art for Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon you see that there is some sort of light figure with eyes and the color of it's eyes lines up with the color in Necrozma's eyes, and they wouldn't just put this light figure on the box art like this if it didn't mean anything, so I more inclined to believe that the light with eyes is actually Necrozma and it's hinting at Necrozma's true form because keep in mind that if what your saying about the armor being Necrozma is true then that would mean that the light figure itself would likely be a brand new pokemon.

I think at this point it's too early to just try to dismiss the light figure as being nothing important, and also it's lore so far doesn't really center around it's armor it's more centered around it's personality and it's seemingly apparent connection to the Ultra Beast.

I mean you say that it's a safe assumption that Necrozma itself is being used as armor for Solgaleo or Lunala, but however it's not as safe as of a assumption as you think considering the fact that there is no confirmation that the pokemon were seeing that look like Solgaleo and Lunala with Necrozma on them are even Solgaleo and Lunala to begin with. And before you say that it's safe to presume that those pokemon are Solgaleo and Lunala, may I remind you gamefreak does like to be unpredictable so it would be that much of a stretch to think that Gamefreak decided to throw a curve ball at us to where the box art legendaries on Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon aren't Solagleo or Lunala but Necrozma itself whose used light some how to create light based replicas of Solgaleo and Lunala.

 

[Akashin]

For one, we don't even know that this is Necrozma removing its armor. And second, Necrozma's "armor" is quite literally Necrozma for all we know right now. Everything we know about it, both from design and lore, is centered around what you refer to as armor. That certainly could be changed in Ultra Sun and Moon, but as it stands now, Necrozma is its armor. And as that is all we know right now, that is what makes it redundant to us, regardless of what the actual lore turns out to be.

I'm... really not sure what you're trying to say here. They've said nothing more to indicate that it's some sort of living suit of armor than they've said to indicate it's a mysterious being donning armor. Neither one is, as far as what we know about Necrozma is concerned, more likely than the other.

And what lore, exactly? A big part of that lore is that not enough is known about it. I hesitate to say we should be treating what's already known about it (not that I can think of anything we know about it that excludes the possibility of there being something beneath the pieces it is casting off to Solgaleo and Lunala to begin with) as a be-all end-all by any stretch of the imagination.

The difference is, Karrablast and Shelmet were introduced at the same time with the specific gimmick of swapping armor in mind. And then there's the fact that Necrozma doesn't even look like its wearing armor that can be removed, so as far as we know, it's not even wearing armor.

Nor does it look like it can break itself apart and attach itself to Solgaleo and Lunala, and yet here we are.

 

[20LigerZero16]

I've been thinking about the chances of USUM games having Johto Alolan forms in it, because as of right now there wouldn't be any point in releasing the Gold and Silver games on the virtual console if we can't use any of the gen 2 pokemon to transfer over and later evolve into their alolan forms, like you can with the gen 1 games.

Hopefully, we get some news on that by the end of this month.

 

[Bguy7]

Actually I think it's safe assumption right now to say that the opposite is true, because if you look at the box art for Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon you see that there is some sort of light figure with eyes and the color of it's eyes lines up with the color in Necrozma's eyes, and they wouldn't just put this light figure on the box art like this if it didn't mean anything, so I more inclined to believe that the light with eyes is actually Necrozma and it's hinting at Necrozma's true form because keep in mind that if what your saying about the armor being Necrozma is true then that would mean that the light figure itself would likely be a brand new pokemon.

I think at this point it's too early to just try to dismiss the light figure as being nothing important, and also it's lore so far doesn't really center around it's armor it's more centered around it's personality and it's seemingly apparent connection to the Ultra Beast.

It's too early to say anything about that figure. It could quite literally be anything. Sure, you speculate about it, but it's not really solid evidence of any kind.

I mean you say that it's a safe assumption that Necrozma itself is being used as armor for Solgaleo or Lunala, but however it's not as safe as of a assumption as you think considering the fact that there is no confirmation that the pokemon were seeing that look like Solgaleo and Lunala with Necrozma on them are even Solgaleo and Lunala to begin with.

There is no confirmation, but it is the obvious, first-guess scenario. With a lack of evidence to the contrary, the obvious should be assumed. What we see is Lunala and Solgaleo wearing Necrozma as armor, plain and simple. Other than that, all we have to go on is a myriad of speculation with varying degrees of plausibility.

And before you say that it's safe to presume that those pokemon are Solgaleo and Lunala, may I remind you gamefreak does like to be unpredictable so it would be that much of a stretch to think that Gamefreak decided to throw a curve ball at us to where the box art legendaries on Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon aren't Solagleo or Lunala but Necrozma itself whose used light some how to create light based replicas of Solgaleo and Lunala.

I'm sorry, but I am extremely tired of hearing the "Game Freak has been unpredictable lately" argument. It means nothing. It is within Game Freak's full right to be as predictable or unpredictable as they want. But when it comes to speculating, that's just not a good trend of logic. We could use the same logic to justify the idea that Game Freak will cancel Ultra Sun and Moon altogether in favor of working on a new game for the Play Station 4. Let's make it an M-rated shooter while we're at it. Since Game Freak has been so unpredictable, obviously this is a real possibility. Do you see the problem?

I'm... really not sure what you're trying to say here. They've said nothing more to indicate that it's some sort of living suit of armor than they've said to indicate it's a mysterious being donning armor. Neither one is, as far as what we know about Necrozma is concerned, more likely than the other.

I kind of just explained why I said that, but I'll just put it here again. You look at the cover Legendaries, and see Lunala and Solgaleo wearing Necrozma as armor. There's really no real evidence to say that it's anything else. I'm not saying it couldn't be anything else, but we have no real reason to expect it to be anything else.

And what lore, exactly? A big part of that lore is that not enough is known about it. I hesitate to say we should be treating what's already known about it (not that I can think of anything we know about it that excludes the possibility of there being something beneath the pieces it is casting off to Solgaleo and Lunala to begin with) as a be-all end-all by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes, that is true. Allow me to better explain myself. When I said lore, I was referring more to the what the potential lore would be of these new forms if they were wearing Necrozma as armor, or even wearing Necrozma's armor. I meant that while from a strict gameplay standpoint, these would probably just be new Lunala and Solgaleo forms, from a lore standpoint, they would also serve as new Necrozma forms, making an actual new Necrozma form redundant from a lore-standpoint.

Nor does it look like it can break itself apart and attach itself to Solgaleo and Lunala, and yet here we are.

Not necessarily. Before Ultra Sun and Moon was announced, it was pointed out many time that Necrozma looked like a jumbled mess of parts which could be re-arranged. This could be the result of this.

 

[BCVM22]

I've been thinking about the chances of USUM games having Johto Alolan forms in it, because as of right now there wouldn't be any point in releasing the Gold and Silver games on the virtual console if we can't use any of the gen 2 pokemon to transfer over and later evolve into their alolan forms, like you can with the gen 1 games.

Of the Kanto Pokémon who got Alolan forms, three of them evolve into their Alolan forms.

There's plenty of value to Generation II digital re-releases that doesn't involve more Alolan forms.

 

[Dialga101010]

It's too early to say anything about that figure. It could quite literally be anything. Sure, you speculate about it, but it's not really solid evidence of any kind.



There is no confirmation, but it is the obvious, first-guess scenario. With a lack of evidence to the contrary, the obvious should be assumed. What we see is Lunala and Solgaleo wearing Necrozma as armor, plain and simple. Other than that, all we have to go on is a myriad of speculation with varying degrees of plausibility.

I disagree that it's obvious. Probable maybe, but not obvious. Also I think that the obvious should not be assumed. Even if it is obvious it's still speculation. I think it would be fair to say that from one's viewpoint it's probable, but if it were obvious then we wouldn't need speculation or even confirmation l, we would just be right.

I'm sorry, but I am extremely tired of hearing the "Game Freak has been unpredictable lately" argument. It means nothing. It is within Game Freak's full right to be as predictable or unpredictable as they want. But when it comes to speculating, that's just not a good trend of logic. We could use the same logic to justify the idea that Game Freak will cancel Ultra Sun and Moon altogether in favor of working on a new game for the Play Station 4. Let's make it an M-rated shooter while we're at it. Since Game Freak has been so unpredictable, obviously this is a real possibility. Do you see the problem?

I agree that game freak can be as predictable or unpredictable as they desire, however I think we can agree that Gamefreak isn't about to make a shooter. I think it is important to remember Gamefreak can determine there own predictability but also remember that there are certain things we can predict that they will/won't do. I think it is best to view things as a matter of probability: It's possible Gamefreak will make a shooter, but ultimately improbable. Nothing is necessarily impossible, but rather highly improbable. The reverse that something is possible but only probable is also true.

I kind of just explained why I said that, but I'll just put it here again. You look at the cover Legendaries, and see Lunala and Solgaleo wearing Necrozma as armor. There's really no real evidence to say that it's anything else. I'm not saying it couldn't be anything else, but we have no real reason to expect it to be anything else.

I looked at the art and assumed it was Necrozma that had absorbed solgaleo/Lunala the first time I saw them. I did have a number of thoughts running through my head, though and armor was among them but I still assumed as a guy reaction that I was looking at necrozma forms. My point is that while there is no real evidence to say it is anything else there is also no real evidence to say that it is armor. Still speculating the possibilities and arguing which is most probable is good and fun discussion.

Yes, that is true. Allow me to better explain myself. When I said lore, I was referring more to the what the potential lore would be of these new forms if they were wearing Necrozma as armor, or even wearing Necrozma's armor. I meant that while from a strict gameplay standpoint, these would probably just be new Lunala and Solgaleo forms, from a lore standpoint, they would also serve as new Necrozma forms, making an actual new Necrozma form redundant from a lore-standpoint.

I like how you make a distinction from gameplay practically and lore theory, and I think that contemplating the interaction between the two as well as their separation makes good discussion.

In the end I think it is important not to get so caught up in ones viewpoint that you think that everyone should agree on it even though it's still speculation at this point. I know I have done this before myself on the forums and in real life.

 

[Akashin]

I kind of just explained why I said that, but I'll just put it here again. You look at the cover Legendaries, and see Lunala and Solgaleo wearing Necrozma as armor. There's really no real evidence to say that it's anything else. I'm not saying it couldn't be anything else, but we have no real reason to expect it to be anything else.

Which is exactly my point. You look at the new forms and you see them wearing Necrozma, but there's nothing about that that inherently suggests whether or not what they're wearing is all Necrozma is. Saying that it is all Necrozma is, as of now, has no more basis than saying it isn't.

I'd argue that this apparent light thing could be a hint that there's something else to Necrozma, but while I think it could be something, I'm iffy on relying on it too much for the purpose of debating a point. It could be anything or nothing at this point (though if it is something, the odds of that something pertaining to Necrozma are pretty good).

Yes, that is true. Allow me to better explain myself. When I said lore, I was referring more to the what the potential lore would be of these new forms if they were wearing Necrozma as armor, or even wearing Necrozma's armor. I meant that while from a strict gameplay standpoint, these would probably just be new Lunala and Solgaleo forms, from a lore standpoint, they would also serve as new Necrozma forms, making an actual new Necrozma form redundant from a lore-standpoint.

Why? If, for the sake of argument, Necrozma is a being that is wearing 'armor' of sorts that it can use to symbiotically take something else over (or do whatever else it is doing with Solgaleo and Lunala, though for the sake of the forms spiritually still being Necrozma I like the idea of it being their bodies and its armor and mind), it having a third form that is nothing more than what it leaves behind when it does this would make perfect sense. In a generation where they created new Legendaries that are utterly useless beyond serving as a means of progression toward the real Legendaries, I could very much see them doing this for the sake of completion.

It's redundant if you look at it from the frame of these being Necrozma forms and there not being a need for more, I suppose, but that's sort of the exact opposite of a lore reason for a third form not existing. That's an out-of-universe or gameplay reason, above all.

Not necessarily. Before Ultra Sun and Moon was announced, it was pointed out many time that Necrozma looked like a jumbled mess of parts which could be re-arranged. This could be the result of this.

Sure. But even when people were pointing that out, they were using it to suggest it taking another shape (dragon, predominately), not splitting apart; the latter of which still isn't at all actually suggested by Necrozma's original form. And at the end of the day this argument is nothing more than a theory, which isn't any more likely than the next man's theory at this point.

 

[Aetius]

Sure, that's something that could be done, but I would stay say it's still redundant. The new Solgaleo and Lunala forms essentially serve as new Necrozma forms for all intents and purposes, making it so that there's not really much of a need for an actual form. What it comes down to is how much work Game Freak wants to put in, and what there vision is. They could do something similar to what your suggesting, and no one one would be upset, but they could easily chose not to, as there isn't any real need. I tend to assume that people will do the least amount of work needed.

All intents and purposes like what?
I'm not upset, I just want to understand what you're trying to say with that. XD
To me it would just feel like Necrozma was only meant to be a power-up tool for Solgaleo and Lunala, which isn't that great for a third legendary IMHO.
At least Zygarde got a new form, despite the treatment it was given. LOL
My point still stands, but of course that doesn't mean I'm right.
It's probably due to the fact that we have so little to analyze that we don't know what else should we think about.

 

[20LigerZero16]

Of the Kanto Pokémon who got Alolan forms, three of them evolve into their Alolan forms.

There's plenty of value to Generation II digital re-releases that doesn't involve more Alolan forms.

I don't know about anybody else but to me there really is no value in buying these vc games if you can't use them for other purposes (alolan forms), as the gen 2 remakes already fill that role in giving the full experience of playing gen 2 to players.

I guess the music is somewhat of a value.