New Pokemon Discussion Thread

[Bguy7]

So now that I've had some time to digest the shock that is Alola Forms, I've come to my opinion. I think it is a good idea, but I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the execution with the three we've seen so far. Two of them seem like completely random changes made just for the heck of it, and the third keeps its design in line, but has an incredibly random type. I hope that we get some Alola Forms that work with the existing lore of a Pokemon, instead of just randomly changing it like they did with Sandslash and Ninetails.

Also, I really hope that these new forms aren't used as an excuse to give us yet another region with a low amount of Pokemon. I'm not sure if I could take that two generations in a row.

In its bio, it states that once the shell is off, it becomes lighter. So it's probably like Shell Smash but as an ability.

Losing its shell is in reference to its ability, Shields Down, in which its outer shell cracks and falls off when its attacked. As the ability removes its shell, it wouldn't make that much sense if it had an attack doing the same thing.

 

[Orphalesion]

I'm kind of indifferent at this point. While new Pokémon are nice, some are seemingly created just to be there. I like quality over quantity, and I think XY handled that very well.

Except X/Y had still a good chunk of filler mon (like Vivillion, all it has is its useless gimmick) and Quality and Quantity are, contrary to popular belief NOT mutually exclusive.

Anyway so far the Alola dex doesn't really smack of Quality or uniqueness either: we have a standard pure normal rodent (at least the Kalos one was part Ground), possibly yet another Normal/Flying regional bird (really needed that, eh?), yet another Pika-clone, a pokemon that appears to be a variation of Flabebe's concept and apparently two pure grass lines.

If they really permanently switched to smaller generations (which I don't hope) I'd wish they'd do more unique stuff with the few new pokemon, and I don't mean giving us half a dozen of cosmetic variants. Instead they should focus on unique or rare type combinations and abilities. If we only get 70 mons, don't waste precious time on regional rodents, bugs and birds (unless something unique is done with them, like Talonflame) give us, for example, stronger bug lines instead, tackle more of the type-combos that still are unused, or that are only employed by one/two lines, megas or legendaries.

Plus, while I do like the concept of Alolan forms, making a blue recolour of Snadshrew and calling it a day isn't exactly "quality" in my eyes either. Makes me wonder if down the line (meaning subsequent generations) we end up with four or five variations of some pokemon. Will my kids use "Preservation Clefairy" to battle "Dark Clefairy" and some such?

 

[DemonDragon]

So now that I've had some time to digest the shock that is Alola Forms, I've come to my opinion. I think it is a good idea, but I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the execution with the three we've seen so far. Two of them seem like completely random changes made just for the heck of it, and the third keeps its design in line, but has an incredibly random type. I hope that we get some Alola Forms that work with the existing lore of a Pokemon, instead of just randomly changing it like they did with Sandslash and Ninetails.

Also, I really hope that these new forms aren't used as an excuse to give us yet another region with a low amount of Pokemon. I'm not sure if I could take that two generations in a row.

I do ot think it is quite "random" as the pokemon site gives detailed explanation for why the changes occurred as they have. With the explanations, they make sense, minus Executor's dragon typing but I think people are right in referencing the dragon tree. Still, the largest stretch is that added typing for him.

I do think this means we can also expect around the same amount of new pokemon as X and Y. 70 or so new pokemon, then new alola formes and maybe a few megas if they are still going to continue that.

 

[cmats4020]

Except X/Y had still a good chunk of filler mon (like Vivillion, all it has is its useless gimmick) and Quality and Quantity are, contrary to popular belief NOT mutually exclusive.

Vivillion was more of a trophy Pokémon, but it was still useful. It has Quiver Dance and Shield Dust. Not too shabby . . .

Anyway so far the Alola dex doesn't really smack of Quality or uniqueness either: we have a standard pure normal rodent (at least the Kalos one was part Ground), possibly yet another Normal/Flying regional bird (really needed that, eh?), yet another Pika-clone, a pokemon that appears to be a variation of Flabebe's concept and apparently two pure grass lines.

Motifs will always be present, but that doesn't mean all of them are filler Pokémon or are low quality. A pure Normal rodent doesn't mean it's crappy, likewise with everything else you mentioned. Staraptor was good in its day, Pachirisu helped win the 2014 Pokémon World Championships, Triage Comfey looks interesting (depending on its stats, it could be as crazy as Whimsicott), and pure Grass-types doesn't automatically mean they're crappy Pokémon either.

If they really permanently switched to smaller generations (which I don't hope) I'd wish they'd do more unique stuff with the few new pokemon, and I don't mean giving us half a dozen of cosmetic variants. Instead they should focus on unique or rare type combinations and abilities. If we only get 70 mons, don't waste precious time on regional rodents, bugs and birds (unless something unique is done with them, like Talonflame) give us, for example, stronger bug lines instead, tackle more of the type-combos that still are unused, or that are only employed by one/two lines, megas or legendaries.

From what they've given us -- even the regional rodents, bugs and birds -- it's pretty interesting. We're getting unique type-combos and interesting, never-before-seen abilities. Even then, we don't know the stats involved, so to state we know how generic, bland or weak these Pokémon are is flawed.

Plus, while I do like the concept of Alolan forms, making a blue recolour of Snadshrew and calling it a day isn't exactly "quality" in my eyes either. Makes me wonder if down the line (meaning subsequent generations) we end up with four or five variations of some pokemon. Will my kids use "Preservation Clefairy" to battle "Dark Clefairy" and some such?

So you missed the whole type and ability change the Alolan forms are getting, not to mention a change of stat allocation as well?

And I doubt they'll release multiple versions of the same Pokémon unless every one already has a variant.

 

[XXD17]

I know what the Ganguru fashion trend is, and guess what one of the inspirations for some aspects of Ganguru was: that's right! The Yama-uba! Pokemon, in case you don't know, often have multiple influences: Jynx, it seems to me, combines elements of Ganguru, Yama-Uba and opera singers and most of the time the creators don't talk much about the specific inspirations.

Anyway, I could debunk anything you bring up (Lucario has metal spikes etc), but discussing this with you doesn't make sense since you seem to have this fixed idea that IF there is an Alolan Onix based on the Crystal Onix (which, shocker oh shocker, isn't sure yet) it absolutely, completely, utterly and wholly has to adhere to everything and every single detail in that one 20 year old episode, which doesn't even begin to make sense, espcecially since the early anime took heaps of liberties (can't talk about the current one, haven't watched it). So from my side this is over, darling.


Back on topic: I hate to say it but this time the Alolan variations kinda overshadowed the new pokemon for me a bit.But this ime the selection is really...not that great imho.

Gumshoos: The name is the best thing about this guy. Was kinda hoping for something more spectacular than a simple normal type.

Mudbray: Now that's kinda cute, and I'm glad Mudsdale is not a standalone. But it looks similar to a donkey and I dislike donkeys.

Minior: Interesting! I always like Flying type pokemon that aren't just birds. I haven't watched the trailer (just like some people want to go blind into a pokemon game, I don't want to see moving pictures of it before I play it) but basically you battle with it until it's shell drops off and you get one of 5 colours? Meh, don't really care about that aspect. Like with Vivillion, a colour is just a colour.

Formantis/Luremantis: Now those are ugly things Luremantis looks like its made of peppermint candy..."most gorgeous Grass pokemon"? Allow me to laugh, Hawaii has so many blossoms and flowers and this is supposed to be the prettiest Grass Pokemon they have?

Oricorio: Might this take inspiration from Darwin's Finches? If so, neat! I like those. The fire one is gorgeous, the rest are alright, but look a bit meh.

I agree...It looks like a bigger yungoos and that's it...sure it has that PI vibe going on the fur tufts, but it looks too similar to its pre-evo...I thought we were past that lol,

Awww...mudbray is actually one of my favorites of this bunch specifically because it's a donkey lol. We never had one before...

Lurantis is actually pretty smart...it's based on an orchid mantis, but instead of a bug mimicking a flower, it's a flower mimicking a bug....

I think oricorio is based on Hawaiian honeycreepers (I'iwi, Amakihi, Apapane, etc), which also exhibited a similar radiative insular evolution like the Galapagos finches....although "oriole" is in its name...

 

[Genos]

I'm fond with Ice Vulpix and Ninetales. Ice/Fairy is a great combo.

So far is Ice Vulpix and my starter Litten in my team.

 

[roserade the warrior]

This hit me like a lightning... I mean, the new pokemon are cool, I like them all (gumshoos will make Alola great again, thats for sure, and will make a wall to stop those pesky ratatta inmigrants ). But the variants... Its ironic how we had a very heated debate about a possible mega-sandslash in the mega evolution thread, the more ironic thing is that somewhere in this thread the ice/fairy and ice/steel type combos were mentioned by some users as very desired to see. I feel that gamefreak has someone reading the comments here... So you know, say whatever you want to see in pokemon sun and moon right now, there are still 2-3 months before its release so you may be able to see it being implemented xD.
Anyway, the most extravagant is exeggutor, thats for sure, grass/dragon? really? I think I understand why: x4 ice weakness and x1 weakness to fire, since you know, relatively cold climates makes this guy into the exeggutor we all know and tropical climate make him the "original" form, though they could have fixed that with an existent ability (heatproof) and grass/ground, though grass/dragon is a cool typing.
For vulpix and sandshrew I am just gonna say: what did those mon saw in the mountain that they thought such a harsh climate was a good idea to live in? Specially sandshrew seeing it is weak to ice so almost any ice types would predate on him. But the typings are cool (no pun intended) and the designs are beautiful (gotta love that pantene ninetales).

 

[Bguy7]

I do ot think it is quite "random" as the pokemon site gives detailed explanation for why the changes occurred as they have. With the explanations, they make sense, minus Executor's dragon typing but I think people are right in referencing the dragon tree. Still, the largest stretch is that added typing for him.

I realize that I wasn't the clearest in my post. I do know that they have given lore to these Pokemon that make the new types make total sense. What I meant was that this new lore has absolutely nothing to do with the original lore of the Pokemon. I'd rather see them working with and expanding upon existing lore as opposed to creating entirely new lore that comes out of nowhere.

 

[Erron Black]

My thoughts on the new things:

Gumshoos: It's interesting...? IDK seems too similar to Yungoose and it's name is weird too. Not my favorite.

Minior: Interesting concept, I like it, but at the same time, I'm indifferent. I wonder if there's anything more to the broken shell form, like if it changes anything significantly or if it's just a color palette change. I bet it's Shiny forms will be interesting.

Oricorio: Love the concept and it is definitely a very unique Pokemon. I love the whole Darwin's Finches basis for this Pokemon and they pulled it off marvelously with the dancing theme. It's ability could really be dangerous in competitive with Dragon Dance sweepers running rampant. Interesting new move too! I want to see if this one evolves, it could be really cool, but with how developed Oricorio is, I doubt it will.

Fomantis and Lurantis: Cool new Grass types! Unsure why they're pure Grass and not part Bug with them being based on the Orchid Mantis... Might be because they'd be too similar to the Leavanny line? While they're cool, I probably won't use them on my teams.

Mudbray: Cute, but I won't use it. Mostly because I'm still a little meh about Mudsdale. The design doesn't speak to me at all.

Alolan Exeggutor: Well boys, we have a new Mememon. Interesting... to say the least. I never would've thought this sort of thing would happen. When I first saw it I instantly thought: Mega Exeggutor! Then was quickly surprised when it stated it was a form! Interesting twist on Exeggutor. Grass/Dragon though? Anyone know why it's Dragon typed? It definitely looks like it's getting Dragon Tail. Hopefully it gets Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse too, that would be amazing. Frisk has always been meh, so I hope it gets Chlorophyll or Harvest.

Alolan Sandshrew and Sandslash: YESS!!! My favorite Gen 1 Pokemon looks amazing in Ice and Steel! I will definitely use this one on my Moon playthrough! I love the Igloo design Sandshrew has and Sandslash's Icicle theme makes me hope that it will get Icicle Crash and Ice Shard, perhaps even Metal Claw and Iron Head too. I just wish it got a better ability than Snow Cloak. Maybe a Hidden Ability being Refrigerate or Iron Barbs?

Alolan Vulpix and Ninetales: CUTE AND BEAUTIFUL!!! Love these two! If Ninetales wasn't majestic before, and if Vulpix wasn't cute before, well they certainly are now! I can see them getting Ice Beam, Aurora Beam, Sheer Cold, Dazzling Gleam, and Moonblast. Snow Cloak makes sense for their ability, but I think Snow Warning could make for a great Hidden Ability.

 

[Orphalesion]

Vivillion was more of a trophy Pokémon, but it was still useful. It has Quiver Dance and Shield Dust. Not too shabby . . .

Motifs will always be present, but that doesn't mean all of them are filler Pokémon or are low quality. A pure Normal rodent doesn't mean it's crappy, likewise with everything else you mentioned. Staraptor was good in its day, Pachirisu helped win the 2014 Pokémon World Championships, Triage Comfey looks interesting (depending on its stats, it could be as crazy as Whimsicott), and pure Grass-types doesn't automatically mean they're crappy Pokémon either.

From what they've given us -- even the regional rodents, bugs and birds -- it's pretty interesting. We're getting unique type-combos and interesting, never-before-seen abilities. Even then, we don't know the stats involved, so to state we know how generic, bland or weak these Pokémon are is flawed.

So you missed the whole type and ability change the Alolan forms are getting, not to mention a change of stat allocation as well?

And I doubt they'll release multiple versions of the same Pokémon unless every one already has a variant.

1) Still, if Pokedex space is a limited commodity now they should really vager very carefully if we need yet another Normal/Flying type (for example) and if we don't have enough of them. Same with Vivillion, they could have just adjusted Butterfree's or Beautifly's movepool. Or made Vivillion something less common such as Bug/Psychic. We have enough regional birds and rodents to fill those niches and if you ask me the Yungoos line is hideous (and boring) and Pikipek is just plain boring.
If we don't get many new pokemon they should wage each of them carefully on whether it is needed or not.

Of course I'd rather have an abundance of new pokemon.

2) I forgot to mention design wise. Of course there are changes to the types and movesets and such, but design wise the Allan Shandshrew and Vulpix lines are pretty much just recolours of the sort you find in many JRPGs.

 

[cmats4020]

1) Still, if Pokedex space is a limited commodity now they should really vager very carefully if we need yet another Normal/Flying type (for example) and if we don't have enough of them. Same with Vivillion, they could have just adjusted Butterfree's or Beautifly's movepool. Or made Vivillion something less common such as Bug/Psychic. We have enough regional birds and rodents to fill those niches and if you ask me the Yungoos line is hideous (and boring) and Pikipek is just plain boring.
If we don't get many new pokemon they should wage each of them carefully on whether it is needed or not.

Of course I'd rather have an abundance of new pokemon.

2) I forgot to mention design wise. Of course there are changes to the types and movesets and such, but design wise the Allan Shandshrew and Vulpix lines are pretty much just recolours of the sort you find in many JRPGs.

We'll have to agree to disagree on appearances and usefulness and whatnot. Especially on the Alola forms. I mean, Igloo Sandshrew?! That's so innovative and creative; I love it!

 

[Erron Black]

1) Still, if Pokedex space is a limited commodity now they should really vager very carefully if we need yet another Normal/Flying type (for example) and if we don't have enough of them. Same with Vivillion, they could have just adjusted Butterfree's or Beautifly's movepool. Or made Vivillion something less common such as Bug/Psychic. We have enough regional birds and rodents to fill those niches and if you ask me the Yungoos line is hideous (and boring) and Pikipek is just plain boring.
If we don't get many new pokemon they should wage each of them carefully on whether it is needed or not.

Of course I'd rather have an abundance of new pokemon.

2) I forgot to mention design wise. Of course there are changes to the types and movesets and such, but design wise the Allan Shandshrew and Vulpix lines are pretty much just recolours of the sort you find in many JRPGs.

1) Or they can stick with doing what they feel they need to do? If they think Normal/Flying fits the Pokemon then so be it. Who cares if there's too many of a certain type, just because a Pokemon has the type doesn't mean it's not creative or uninspired.

2) Recolors? Uhh... No. No, not at all. Sandslash doesn't have a giant spike on it's head normally, no? Nor does it have hooked claws. Sandshrew certainly doesn't look like that normally, nor does Vulpix or Ninetales. If anything these are extreme changes to the designs rather than just a simple 'recolor' like you say. Sandshrew has some inspiration from igloos and Sandslash seems to be have some ice stalagmite inspiration along with ice picks for claws. Vulpix and Ninetales certainly took a completely different route in design, I'm not exactly sure what it is based on, other than an Arctic Fox of course.

Basically, it's way more than a recolor or a reskin. You're just not looking hard enough into the designs.

 

[Orphalesion]

We'll have to agree to disagree on appearances and usefulness and whatnot. Especially on the Alola forms. I mean, Igloo Sandshrew?! That's so innovative and creative; I love it!

I like the Igloo aspect too, and I love freaky monster Exeggutor, and Snow Fairy Ninetales is a much needed boost for an underrated, overlooked pokemon. I like the concept I'd just not be very happy if these variants come at the expense of completely new species.

Hawaii is even a great choice to introduce them, when it comes down to it, a lot of its native wildlife was pushed to extinction by invasive species, so it all makes perfect sense. Just like with mega Evolution (which also made sense with lore dating as far back as Gen 1) I can't complain aside from the potential cut in dex size.

 

[Erron Black]

I think some Alola forms for certain Pokemon would be pretty great, especially if it messed with their lore a bit. Like Heatmor and Durant. Have a Grass-type Heatmor that adapted to living in rainforests and a Fire/Bug Durant based on Fire Ants. It'd be a role reversal and I think that would be pretty cool.

I think a Fire or part Fire-type Alolan Marowak will be in the game due to Kiawe's description of him being a Fire trainer and training with a Marowak.

 

[Endless]

I realize that I wasn't the clearest in my post. I do know that they have given lore to these Pokemon that make the new types make total sense. What I meant was that this new lore has absolutely nothing to do with the original lore of the Pokemon. I'd rather see them working with and expanding upon existing lore as opposed to creating entirely new lore that comes out of nowhere.

I think they tie in well enough. Alolan Sandslash shovels snow instead of digging and running around kicking up dust, and instead of curling into a ball and use the spikes for protection the spikes are now always erect. So it's really just regular Sandslash's old abilities adapting to a colder climate.
As you said yourself Exeggutor is still pretty much the same, only taller, and with a weird typing that is rather odd even if it is inspired by a dragon tree.
Alolan Ninetales is probably the one that derive the most from the regular, with no emphasis on its longevity or even the tails anymore. However it is still seen as a creature of legends and while not vindictive it still seems to be easily angered.

 

[SkyBlue]

Something I'm wondering, is what will happen to alola pokemon when they leave the alola region. Like we're getting these alolan formes because these 'mons are in the alola climate, but take native alola pokes like rowlet, mimikyu etc, wonder if we'll get different formes like that if a rowlet (just using it as an example, not really sure if they'll touch starters) to sinnoh. And it'd be so cool if now hoenn pokemon in kanto and just 'mons from one region found in another, we get more 'alola/delta' formes due to the changes and what not.

Not real sure if any of this would happen, but it'd be neat ^w^

 

[Hauke_von_Arding]

What if Eevee got an Alola form, and all the Eeveelutions had a change of typing? Would solve the missing Eeveelution problem, at least somewhat. ;D

1. We already have seen wild Eevee. They have no new form.
2. So... you want Ground Flameon and Dragon Sylpheon? Would be strange with this names...

 

[Wryteous]

Something I'm wondering, is what will happen to alola pokemon when they leave the alola region. Like we're getting these alolan formes because these 'mons are in the alola climate, but take native alola pokes like rowlet, mimikyu etc, wonder if we'll get different formes like that if a rowlet (just using it as an example, not really sure if they'll touch starters) to sinnoh. And it'd be so cool if now hoenn pokemon in kanto and just 'mons from one region found in another, we get more 'alola/delta' formes due to the changes and what not.

Not real sure if any of this would happen, but it'd be neat ^w^

I get the feeling it's for a select few pokemon that fit the possible criteria for each generation. At a glance, it looks like a trend for two-stage evolution species that are yet to have Mega Evolutions. Keeping them current in the latest release whilst not giving them a "Final-Stage" with Mega-Evo's. In a way I kind of see it as a clever recycling of old Pokemon for new games- not that it's bad. These new forms are appealing. I just think it may be used to limit the total number of new species that appear.

If it is for two evolution pokemon-
Pineco-Forretress
Teddiursa-Ursaring
Skitty-Delcatty
Makuhita-Harimaya
Combee-Vespiqueen
Woobat-Swoobat

Are just some potential candidates I can think of- off the top of my head

 

[Elementman-Novapoke]

1. We already have seen wild Eevee. They have no new form.
2. So... you want Ground Flameon and Dragon Sylpheon? Would be strange with this names...

Playing devil's advocate here, but I think the JP trailer showed / suggested that a 'normal' Exeggcute evolved into the Alolan Exeggcutor.

 

[Aromatic Mist]

Playing devil's advocate here, but I think the JP trailer showed / suggested that a 'normal' Exeggcute evolved into the Alolan Exeggcutor.

We have seen normal Eeveelutions as well, though, as we've seen Eevee evolving into Umbreon, Sylveon fighting Comfey, and Flareon getting slaughtered by Hydro Vortex.

Although you'd be correct, there's no such thing as 'Alolan Exeggcute', as only its evolution is Alolan or not, otherwise it would of been shown.