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New Pokemon Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Let's Go, Pikachu & Eevee' started by RileyXY1, Mar 26, 2018.

  1. Cometstarlight

    Cometstarlight What do I do now?

    I mean, by that logic, Bonsly would be a gen III Pokemon. Considering how Bonsly was playable in XD. Meltan is simply a Gen VIII Pokemon being used as a teaser before the rest of its generation debuts.
     
  2. Akashin

    Akashin Well-Known Member

    XD isn't a main series game, so no, that logic doesn't really hold.
     
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  3. Dragalge

    Dragalge Your balloon got popped!

    It’s not confirmed to be a Gen VIII Pokemon at all. In fact, many things have evidenced towards Meltan being in Gen VII (and it’s available in a Gen VII game too).
     
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  4. BCVM22

    BCVM22 Well-Known Member

    This is not remotely "the only logical conclusion." See bottom.

    This is accurate enough.

    This is not. To try and shoehorn LGP/E into Generation VII ignores their unique status in the name of trying to fit the games into an existing niche. The moment we realize that this doesn't work and doesn't hold up and that LGP/E aren't really Generation VII titles, the rest of the notion falls apart.
     
  5. Bguy7

    Bguy7 The Dragon Lord

    To expand on what Akashin said, XD is a spin-off game, and it's being in a main series game, like Let's Go, that matters in a situation like this. Also, Bonsly wasn't fully obtainable or usable in XD, as it could only be used in a specific mode as a rental Pokémon. Combine that with the fact that the game is spin-off, and that's why Bonsly was only a preview Pokémon. Let's Go, on the other hand, presumably has Meltan being fully obtainable and usable and in a main series game, such that it's a full appearance. A full appearance isn't really a teaser, it's a premier.
     
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  6. Sabre_King

    Sabre_King Well-Known Member

    I think how this is described is exactly how I view Meltan, honestly this is that awkward period between generations. Obliviously there are examples on both sides a Pokémon is revealed for a future generation, while others have been revealed for the same one. I think until the Pokémon company makes the decision and infnorms us we won’t know but I feel like it’s a gen 7 pokemon unless they pull a victini.
     
  7. Zaide

    Zaide Well-Known Member

    Why do we care whether it's a Gen 7 or a Gen 8 Pokémon?
     
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  8. Ignition

    Ignition Blessed picture

    Same reason we care about if Let's Go is either of the aforementioned titles: everything needs to be categorized apparently
     
  9. Mega Altaria

    Mega Altaria The best Mega Evolution

    There is a lot of confusion about Meltan being a Gen 7 or a Gen 8 Pokémon. And obviously people are going to ask questions about which generation Meltan belongs to. There is no certainty for Meltan belonging to either category until we know what the Gen 8 games will do to it.
     
  10. WhiteBlair

    WhiteBlair Master Breeder.

    It is just a possibility. If Gen VII, Meltan is the only Pokémon that doesn't have a legit ability revealed in its' own generation. Then again, it can be used to foreshadow what is to come for Gen VIII aswell.

    It, still, is quite unclear whether it belongs to VII or VIII.
     
  11. Nodame

    Nodame Cute Pokemon only

    If it is a Gen 7 Pokemon then why didn’t it appear in USUM? It never happened before.
     
  12. PrinceOfFacade

    PrinceOfFacade Ghost-Type Master

    Honestly, I'm just tired of Gen 7. lol

    Having a Gen 8 pokemon around just makes the generation feel closer. At any rate, we won't know whether or not it's Gen 8 until we know its dex number.
     
  13. ShadowForce720

    ShadowForce720 Well-Known Member

    No, actually your wrong about it never happening before because may I remind you of the fact that in USUM it introduce 5 new pokemon being Poipole, Naganadel, Blacephalon, Stakataka, and Zeraora which never showed up in Pokemon Sun and Pokemon Moon.
     
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  14. BCVM22

    BCVM22 Well-Known Member

    That's great, and entirely true.

    In and of itself, that doesn't make LGP/E Generation VII games nor does it make Meltan a Generation VII Pokémon. I'd argue the two scenarios share very little in common, at that, as there was not even remotely any question as to the generation to which US/UM belonged.
     
  15. ShadowForce720

    ShadowForce720 Well-Known Member

    Look does Let's Go have some differences from other main series games yes, however just because it has some difference doesn't mean that it can't be consider a gen 7 game or that it needs to be separated from the other games put in this weird limbo area. Really to know what generation a pokemon game is in you look at okay what other games came out and before it for instance any pokemon game regardless or whether or not there main series or spin-offs that comes out after X&Y( which are the first gen 6 games) but before Sun&Moon(the first gen 7 games) are gen 6 pokemon games.


    The same thing is true here since Let's Go Pikachu & Let's Go Eevee are coming out after Sun and Moon(the first gen 7 games) but before the first gen 8 games it means they are gen 7 games, it's as simple as that. Now I know what your going to try to say that "oh but that's just a oversimplification and your just trying to shoehorn it in to a place it doesn't belong" but that is not the case nor true saying that Let's Go Pikachu & Let's Go Eevee are gen 7 games because they came out after Sun and Moon but before the first gen 8 games is not a oversimplification or trying to shorn horn it in a place it doesn't belong.


    So the Let's Go Games are a bit different then the other games however if you look at it Pokemon Spin-off games are much more radically different from the main series games then Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee are yet you don't really see people trying separate them and saying that oh they can't be part of a generation, really let's face it the main reason if not the only reason why people don't want to acknowledge Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee as gen 7 games is because those are the first games that Meltan is fully playable and obtainable in and acknowledging that would mean they would have to acknowledge that Meltan is a gen 7 pokemon.



    Really let's face it if Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee weren't introducing a new pokemon then no one would really argue against Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee being gen 7 games, as they wouldn't see the point in really arguing otherwise and wouldn't really care.

    Basically if you click on the link Joe Merrick posted it kind of goes into why Meltan would be considered a gen 7 pokemon: https://twitter.com/JoeMerrick/status/1044579718194810880
     
  16. BCVM22

    BCVM22 Well-Known Member

    Nope. That continues to be the issue, is that it's very much not as simple as t--

    --ah, yes, exactly! See? You understand.

    Oh, I guess not. Alas. I thought we had a breakthrough there.

    No, all of that is very much a vast oversimplification and all that. You had it right until you didn't.

    ...no, we do that all the time. When they were current, it was frequently noted how the Mystery Dungeon titles and the Ranger titles and their ilk straddled generational divides and didn't strictly fit into Generation III or Generation IV. I'm uncertain as to what history you subscribe to in this matter.

    That's not remotely true. I would argue that they fit in an in-between spot regardless of what is or isn't introduced in the game. Meltan simply brings the issue to the forefront, is all.

    My takeaway from that is far more that Meltan's Pokédex number won't match its asset number in the data, which is fine, because we knew that.

    You can keep saying "look, you have to accept" and "look, let's face it" and "well okay but" all you like, and that's your prerogative. My response continues to be "hah, great, we sure don't, but thanks," and particularly not on the basis of your specific arguments, the crux of which seems to be that because these games came out before Generation VIII, then they absolutely must be Generation VII, which is simply not true. Again, we've had any number of side titles in the past that released between generations and don't fit into one or the other. The DNA of LGP/E is far more core title than side title, absolutely, but genre aside, in acknowledging that these games exist in a continuum adjacent to the core titles but not within them, it's not clear why these games can't exist outside of the normal generations, and it's equally not clear why we have to insist on trying to fit them into one or the other.

    You can't keep trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole, and when it doesn't fit perfectly, you especially can't really keep looking around and saying "look, let's face it people, you have to accept that this goes here."

    And as for the notion of "why does this matter?", I do agree with that, to a degree. Just over a year from now, we'll have Generation VIII in hand with a full new portion of the Pokédex therein, and an accompanying definitive answer. If Meltan has a Pokédex number that firmly places it within Generation VIII's portion, then that'll be that. I'm perfectly willing to wait until then for a definitive answer, and in that interim, I maintain that it's silly to the point of inaccuracy to try and say definitively "look, this is a Generation VII game and a Generation VII Pokémon and you have to accept that."
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 8:41 PM
  17. Nodame

    Nodame Cute Pokemon only

    But they did show up in USUM.
     
  18. PrinceOfFacade

    PrinceOfFacade Ghost-Type Master

    Well, here's the thing.

    Masuda himself stated that Let's GO is to be considered a main series game, so it doesn't fall in line with Mystery Dungeon or the like. Thus, it qualifies to legitimately be part of a generation.

    With that noted, it would be oversimplifying to say Let's GO is Gen 7 because it was released before Gen 8, if everything we know about Let's GO wasn't a given. Much like, ORAS, it features moves and forms of the most current generation - in this case, Gen 7 - with few new moves and forms made specifically with that game in mind. This has been the case with every remake we've ever had, and what was our consensus?:

    - FireRed & LeafGreen: Gen 3
    - HeartGold & SoulSilver: Gen 4
    - Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire: 6

    What makes Let's GO any different?

    The only thing really separating Let's GO from the rest of Gen 7 is its bomb ass graphics, but is that really all it takes to not make it a Gen 7 game?
     
  19. Akashin

    Akashin Well-Known Member

    But not in SM. Which is exactly what Meltan is doing now.

    There's no strict reason why Meltan can't be a Gen VII Pokemon.
     
  20. BCVM22

    BCVM22 Well-Known Member

    This is what Masuda said, yes...

    ...but this is extrapolating, especially since Masuda isn't part of any body that specifically recognizes "generations" the way we do. Just because Game Freak considers it a main series game by gameplay - which it is, mostly - does not at all mean we're required to incorrectly conform it to a generation.

    For one thing, it features a Pokémon that didn't appear in any Generation VII title. For another, it's on different hardware than the games that immediately preceded it, which to me ends the discussion right then and there, but I obviously don't dictate wider policy in that matter.

    "Meltan is a Generation VII Pokémon."
    "Not really. Why?"
    "Because it's in a Generation VII game."
    "But LGP/E aren't Generation VII games."
    "Sure they are, they have a Generation VII Pokémon in them."
    "But Meltan isn't a Ge--"

    It's an argument based on perfectly circular logic that we can't seem to free ourselves from.

    Nor is there any reason to consider LGP/E Generation VII games, and that's the shaky foundation on which the entire notion is built.
     

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