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New term for PMD stories without actual dungeons/exploring/rescuing?

Marika_CZ

Well-Known Member
Discussed couple of times on bulbagarden forums... crossposting here because I think it is interesting and relevant in general.

We often use "PMD" for stories set in universe where Pokemon exist (usually!) without humans, they can speak English and have their own society/civilisation resembling the human one. (#1)

The problem is, half the people expect more than that when one tags their story with "PMD." They expect actual dungeons, their exploration, rescue teams and whatnot. (#2)

So, the question is, should we try to coin a new term for #1, seeing they are as popular as #2?
And if so, what term do you consider appropriate?


This shouldn't be too much of a problem, but it can lead to potential misunderstandings or incorrect expectations. I myself plan on writing a short story set in #1 and I would like to avoid a negative review based on the point that my story didn't have any mystery dungeons or exploration teams! Don't I know what PMD is about?! Didn't I play one of those games even?! :p
(For the record, no I don't think anyone here would give me this type of review, I exxagarated just to illustrate my point)

At any rate, my idea was for #1 to be named PNMD or simply PND (Pokémon NO Mystery Dungeon / Pokémon NO Dungeon).
It is short, similar to the original term and therefore easy to get used to, and simple enough for first time reader to figure out "Oh it sounds like PMD but probably somewhat different?"
 
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unrepentantAuthor

A cat who writes stories
I believe that the term "PMD" is used so ubiquitously because it's the popularity of the PMD games that led to pokémon-only settings like we now have. It's a similar phenomenon to how "D&D" is the catch-all terms for pen & paper RPGs, whether they have anything to do with actual D&D or not. I don't doubt that a handful of readers might be disappointed to find a "PMD" story without actual mystery dungeons, but the conventions of a "PMD" fic were never so much about mystery dungeons to begin with.

Still, I'm a sucker for categorisation and specificity in communication and so on, so I'll give this some thought. Your proposed term "PNMD" is not bad, honestly. It's very peculiar in a vacuum, but it does have the effect of catching people's eye and suggesting itself to be a variant on the PMD convention. Besides your proposal, any alternative would have to be a fair bit clunkier. "Pokémon-Only Setting" for example. Maybe "No Humans." As I think about this, it becomes clear that having to explain "I've created a setting with pokémon as the only natives, like PMD but it's not the PMD setting" is a lot more awkward than just slapping "PMD" on things and asking to be excused for the lack of dungeons. Perhaps "PMDL" (PMD Lite) or "PMDV" (PMD Variant) are similar viable options to your proposal?
 

Marika_CZ

Well-Known Member
@unrepentantAuthor Agreed. And yeah, IF we actually go ahead and create such a term, it should be very short and convenient just like "PMD" is. Otherwise nobody will bother using it; PMD is so much shorter and immediatelly recognizable by everyone after all.
 

Venia Silente

[](int x){return x;}
One of the problems I see with "PNMD" and similar terms is that they are ambiguous precisely because PMD itself is perceived as ambiguous. If I'm reading a "Pokémon No Mystery Dungeon" story, I could reasonably expect a story set in a mainline games / anime / realworld-esque world but focused primarily or exclusively on Pokémon; after all I'm being told it is Pokémon, but is not Mystery Dungeon. (Do note, those stories also don't have a more concise, well-recognized term going for them)

I'd say at the first stages of setting something fandom-wise (or fandom-wide) pushing for an abbreviated form would cause more issues in the short term than can be solved in the long term. I'd suggest something like "non-game PMD" or "broad strokes PMD" (that suggests somewhat that it is the setting but with the game elements taken out, or pushed to the background in favor of other stuff) or, if it can take place in a world that is like PMD's but not exactly it either, "Pokémon civilization". If you want to go the way places like AOOO tag stories, maybe something like "PMD", "But No Dungeons", "No Mystery Either", "Not Like the Games".

A term like "PMD Lite" would I feel be actually more restrictive than needed, as it tells me that it is exactly like a PMD (that means including the elements that define it, like the Mystery Dungeons) except in a lite or reduced form, maybe with very little exposition, minimal worldbuilding, etc.
 

DeliriousAbsol

Call me Del
I'm not really sure. I don't think I've been in a situation where people read my stories and point out there's no dungeons, so I've never thought it's an issue or that it needed its own term. To be honest, I sort of prefer 'fics without the dungeons as I can find that mechanic a bit clunky in a novel setting when it's not executed well. My own attempts at this type of fiction have had groups encounter aggressive pokemon in various settings, much like you'd expect from PMD. I've only really recently started heavily reading Pokemon fanfiction and I am actually surprised at how often mystery dungeons come up! So if it's an issue in other settings outside of where I usually post, maybe it could use its own definition?

However, if it should have a term, I think I'd back PMD Lite. (PMDLite without the space, if you think it looks a bit tidier?) It seems to carry an understanding with it that it's not 'PMD As You Know It.' I think PND looks too similar and could cause some confusion if someone were to misread the N as an M or a potential typo. PNMD doesn't gel with me at all, I'll be honest.

Maybe a term such as Poke-Centric Universe might be an option? That clears away any ties to a Mystery Dungeon universe, and any canon settings along with it.
 

Ambyssin

Winter can't come soon enough
Speaking personally, if I see "PMD" (or the fully spelled-out version) in the title, I'm generally looking for one of two things. The first being some sort of organization that functions like the rescue teams/Wigglytuff's Guild/Expedition Society. Meaning they're out making contributions to the community in some way... even if said contributions are more antagonistic in nature. The other thing is, well, the dungeons themselves. For me, they don't have to be chaotic labyrinths like the games make them out to be. That'd be a bit... weird to do in a fic, though there are certainly ones on these forums that have pulled it off. You can definitely get away with some sort of surreal location or fantastical landmass and call it a day. If a fic doesn't have one of these, I file it under the classification of "PMD in name only."

For what it's worth, Serebii's fic awards have a "Pokémon-Centric" category, which I think is supposed to be for stories that focus predominantly on Pokémon. But I think the category is blurring together with PMD nowadays. <.<
 

Manchee

extra toasty
I wasn't even aware that people sometimes use PMD as an indicator that it's Pokémon-only rather than saying it's simply that. Because when I see PMD, I would expect dungeons and squads and the like, which is why I never read anything that is said to be a PMD fic. I would be all for using something else to let readers know if something is Pokémon-centric, but I've also been out of the loop from fics for a while.
 

Marika_CZ

Well-Known Member
@Manchee My friend your entire post is a living proof of why we should consider a official, separate term, even if it is never adopted past these forums ;)

Then again maybe most readers actually don't care (hard to estimate since those people are not going to comment anyway).
 

Negrek

Lost but Seeking
Eh. It'd be one thing if there were dozens of people clamoring to write stories of that specific type, but I don't really think the demand is there. It seems kind of weird to come up with a term that's going to be used for probably a single-digit number of stories on this site, maybe a couple dozen on FFN. If it has legs and ends up getting really popular, then some kind of catch-all term for that style of story would be useful, but one would probably arise naturally anyway.

If you're worried people are going to be disappointed by clicking on a PMD story without guilds or dungeons, I'd recommend either not labeling it PMD or including an author's note stating something like, "This story takes place in a PMD-like world of pokémon but does not include dungeons or guilds." To me, throwing a label like "PNMD" on it would only be more confusing; you'd either need to explain it in your author's note what that means, or people outside of those who've read this thread (likely to be only a small percentage of your readership) would have no clue what it was supposed to mean, which wouldn't actually help them evaluate whether they'd be interested in the story or not.
 

Manchee

extra toasty
Eh. It'd be one thing if there were dozens of people clamoring to write stories of that specific type, but I don't really think the demand is there. It seems kind of weird to come up with a term that's going to be used for probably a single-digit number of stories on this site, maybe a couple dozen on FFN. If it has legs and ends up getting really popular, then some kind of catch-all term for that style of story would be useful, but one would probably arise naturally anyway.

If you're worried people are going to be disappointed by clicking on a PMD story without guilds or dungeons, I'd recommend either not labeling it PMD or including an author's note stating something like, "This story takes place in a PMD-like world of pokémon but does not include dungeons or guilds." To me, throwing a label like "PNMD" on it would only be more confusing; you'd either need to explain it in your author's note what that means, or people outside of those who've read this thread (likely to be only a small percentage of your readership) would have no clue what it was supposed to mean, which wouldn't actually help them evaluate whether they'd be interested in the story or not.

That misses the point, though. Even if it is a small number of fics, as has been stated before, not everyone knows that "PMD" doesn't always mean there will be dungeons. Some people (like myself) will not even click on a fic that has PMD as a label because they would expect dungeons/etc. to be involved. A different label, even if it's as simple as PC for Pokémon-Centric or something of the like (because I do think that PNMD is confusing and will still get people mixed up) will help readers find stories that are set in worlds where humans either do not exist or are not involved with the main plot.

Even if this new label or whatever you want to call it would only "be used for probably a single-digit number of stories on this site," that's still a "single-digit number of stories" that might not otherwise have been read at all by some people who avoid reading anything under the PMD label.
 
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