He was benched as Houston set a record for worst offense to make the playoffs. Playoffs give room, but if it's clear the team will do better with another option you take it.
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NFL/NCAAF Thread: We don't huddle anymore in our society.
- Thread starter Hunter Zolomon
- Start date
He was benched as Houston set a record for worst offense to make the playoffs. Playoffs give room, but if it's clear the team will do better with another option you take it.
Locormus
Can we please get the older, old forum back?
I get where the problem comes from (just like Disney had with that Maui-bodysuit during Halloween), but I honestly don't think it should be seen as a problem if handled with the respect the people deserve. Yes, Native Americans are well within their rights to say that these NFL franchises are appropriating their culture, simplifying and the like, but when it comes down to it, they have a place in the historical culture of the land - so are they the only ones allowed to reference it? Even though there's still a very blatant divide between Native Americans and settlers because of the bloody history, that's still a history they share. And nowadays, when I hear people talk about Native Americans, I often hear how they were great warriors. There's a lot of respect there, so why can't a franchise honor these people with a name/mascot as reverence?
And to be frank, the point of a franchise name is almost always to instill a sense of how the team wants to be perceived. Native Americans, historically, are perceived as a strong and fierce people, just like lions, eagles, wolves, bears, etc. As long as they don't make a charicature or mockery of that Native American imagery, but honor it instead, what's the problem? I mean, the Cleveland Indians logo was obviously not very thoughtful, so that's a thing to avoid, but the logo for the Redskins does just that, as does the Chiefs logo. I get that "redskins" can be perceived as a derogative word, so just change the name to the more PC-term Washington Natives or something and it should be fine, right?
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
Forget about Tom Brady being GOAT when you know he has the best coach in the NFL Bill Belichick,plays in a system that other backup QBs can do well in and the fact that it's weak to give Brady all the credit when football is the ultimate team sport.
Peyton Manning,Barry Sanders,Jim Brown,Dan Marino,Jerry Rice,and Walter Payton all have better cases for GOAT because of their individual achievements.
Peyton Manning,Barry Sanders,Jim Brown,Dan Marino,Jerry Rice,and Walter Payton all have better cases for GOAT because of their individual achievements.
Daniel31
HopingGaryReturns
I really don't like this as an argument tbh because you can say the same thing about Jordan who had Phil Jackson and his team also made the playoffs when he wasn't around those couple yrs. Btw, I'm not turning this into a basketball discussion, just using this as an analogy to make a point.
I mean Brady has performed well in the playoffs and even better when he gets to the SB, just look at the numbers. He's also helped defeat some pretty damn good teams to win those SBs as well and didn't have the greatest of offensive players when he did, Gronk is an obvious exception in 2014 and Corey Dillon in 2004, but that's about it I think. I've always defended Peyton in the past saying that he's better than Brady as a QB individually, but I can't anymore now that Brady has a 5th ring and what he just pulled off recently. I could very well just be caught up in the moment, but I don't think so.
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
No one can win an NBA championship by themselves you'll always need a team but the thing is Jordan has records,stats,and individual awards while also being the leader in all 6 championships.
Why bother mentioning Phil Jackson in the same conversation as Bill Belichick when we know that Jordan was capable of carrying a team on his shoulders with or without Phil,all I see here is you giving Tom Brady a pass and using Phil Jackson as a strawman as if he was the main reason for all 6 of those championships.
Daniel31
HopingGaryReturns
I'm not giving Brady a pass, like I said, I just don't like seeing someone argue the fact that Brady had Belichick as a main reason to why he won SBs, which is what you seemed like you were insinuating, maybe I misunderstood you're previous post.
celestial phantom
Well-Known Member
Tried to avoid posting here too soon after the SB just to see the salt and or other haters on what happened in the game. Can't believe the Falcons choked a 28-3 lead away. They actually showed up on the defensive front and limited the running game that motors up the Patriots offensive passing attack which stalled the Pats in the first half. But, then the offense and defense mustered up and just played exceptionally efficiently to turn it all around. Arguably it was that holding call within FG range that did them in, but not running down the clock each time they had the ball was the even bigger mistake. They could have held it off longer, bu they didn't, didn't like the result but that was one hell of a game anyway.
I don't think it can be contested that Brady is probably the greatest player of this era, and has consideration to being the best QB of all time. Argue about him being a "system" QB if you want, but all teams have a system or adapt a system based on coaching philosophy, and some QBs can flourish in more systems than others whereas others can struggle based on the coaching strategy and plays. This is a team system that works and has been cultivated for about two decades in New England due to the consistency of it. Over the last decade just count how many HC changes have also brought on system changes that haven't thrived yet because they are still finding their footings, or just aren't being given the chance by owners who want to win now mode. I don't see why said system can't produce the results of what can be considered the best playing the game. We'll never know how well Brady would have done in any other team, so imo it's poor to say, "Oh he's just a system guy" when we won't ever know how he would have fared on any other team because it won't happen.
The Pats system works because it's been cultivated, Brady has had the leisure of practicing this game for almost 20 years professionally without changing how he's done it, others just haven't been as capable of beating that system with their own systems. Not to mention Brady isn't all that far off in terms of the big stats with other big name QBs of this era despite not being as big a gunslinger as Peyton, Big Ben, Brees, and a few others, which says a lot. He's the guy who has been running a team in tandem with his HC for this long that he should get the majority of the credit for its success. Outside Gronk and Randy Moss, his WRs are middling talents when you look at them, but look how well they thrive with the guy running the offense. He might not have the raw talent that others have, but success is what matters, and he's had way more success than other people by a long shot.
14 out of the last 17 years the Pats made the playoffs. Of the 3 years they didn't make it, only one was with Brady playing full time as the starter. The other two was his rookie year and the other time was when he was injured and missed the season. Of those 14 times, they made the Super Bowl 7 times, and won it 5 times, only losing to the Patriots killer ELI MANNING. Also between the two considered the best QBs of the current era Brady, Manning, and Brees are all on the heels of each other in most categories professionally. If one is higher than the others, the other two are not very far behind in any category outside maybe completion % due to the middling list of how many fit between 2% (Peyton's got a career 65.something% and Tom has like 63.4%). Honestly, just on success rate it's hard to deny Brady as the best QB playing the game of the modern era and probably of all time.
I don't think it can be contested that Brady is probably the greatest player of this era, and has consideration to being the best QB of all time. Argue about him being a "system" QB if you want, but all teams have a system or adapt a system based on coaching philosophy, and some QBs can flourish in more systems than others whereas others can struggle based on the coaching strategy and plays. This is a team system that works and has been cultivated for about two decades in New England due to the consistency of it. Over the last decade just count how many HC changes have also brought on system changes that haven't thrived yet because they are still finding their footings, or just aren't being given the chance by owners who want to win now mode. I don't see why said system can't produce the results of what can be considered the best playing the game. We'll never know how well Brady would have done in any other team, so imo it's poor to say, "Oh he's just a system guy" when we won't ever know how he would have fared on any other team because it won't happen.
The Pats system works because it's been cultivated, Brady has had the leisure of practicing this game for almost 20 years professionally without changing how he's done it, others just haven't been as capable of beating that system with their own systems. Not to mention Brady isn't all that far off in terms of the big stats with other big name QBs of this era despite not being as big a gunslinger as Peyton, Big Ben, Brees, and a few others, which says a lot. He's the guy who has been running a team in tandem with his HC for this long that he should get the majority of the credit for its success. Outside Gronk and Randy Moss, his WRs are middling talents when you look at them, but look how well they thrive with the guy running the offense. He might not have the raw talent that others have, but success is what matters, and he's had way more success than other people by a long shot.
14 out of the last 17 years the Pats made the playoffs. Of the 3 years they didn't make it, only one was with Brady playing full time as the starter. The other two was his rookie year and the other time was when he was injured and missed the season. Of those 14 times, they made the Super Bowl 7 times, and won it 5 times, only losing to the Patriots killer ELI MANNING. Also between the two considered the best QBs of the current era Brady, Manning, and Brees are all on the heels of each other in most categories professionally. If one is higher than the others, the other two are not very far behind in any category outside maybe completion % due to the middling list of how many fit between 2% (Peyton's got a career 65.something% and Tom has like 63.4%). Honestly, just on success rate it's hard to deny Brady as the best QB playing the game of the modern era and probably of all time.
Greatest of all time is a meaningless aspect in a lot of respects anyway. Troy Aikman never stood out statistically and was carried by one of the most dominant teams of all time but he's usually thrown in discussions.
Though I love how the 90's 49ers/Cowboys war had to create a lot of rules to close out loopholes each team found to make superteams.
Though I love how the 90's 49ers/Cowboys war had to create a lot of rules to close out loopholes each team found to make superteams.
Navin
MALDREAD
What better achievement than leading your team to victory after victory after victory. I'm sure all those guys would trade their individual accolades to be a 4X SB MVP/5 SB rings.
Oh lord, the irony of this argument. I could say the same exact thing - No one can win a Super Bowl by themselves, but the thing is Brady has records, stats, and individual awards while also being the leader in all 7 of his SBs with 5 wins. Brady is more than capable of carrying a team of his shoulders (like he just did in the SB and countless times in his career).
The Pats offense could also very well be cultivated for Brady, and he's the one who's running the system to its perfection.
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
Better to have both which would help their cases for being GOAT even more,give them the same amount of help that was surrounding Brady his entire career to any of the legends I mentioned and they'd have more success from both a individual and a team standpoint.
This is pretty much like saying LeBron James and Kobe Bryant are greater than Wilt Chamberlain just because they have more rings and finals MVPs.
Brady only has records in the post season which is due to the team's system,Manning has records in the regular season but he'd have better records in the post season if he had as much help surrounding Brady.
Manning did more with less while Brady did less with more.
Brady is currently 4th all time in yards and TD's, right behind Brees in both. So barring injuries, he will end up either 1st or 2nd all time in both stats. Also has a better td/int ration than manning. Also played with significantly less talent overall on offense through his career. So yea within a few years, it won't be less, and manning had more.
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
Brady will never surpass Manning from an individual standpoint
Manning has 6,125 in pass completions
Brady has 5,244 in pass completions
Manning has 65.3 in percentage
Brady has 63.8 in percentage
Manning has 71,940 in passing yards
Brady has 61,582 in passing yards
College records
Tennessee Volunteers records
Most passing attempts (career): 1,381
Most passing attempts (season): 477 (1997)
Most passing attempts (game): 65 (09/21/96 vs. Florida)
Most completions (career): 863
Most completions (game): 37 (09/21/96 vs. Florida)
Most consecutive completions (game): 12 (11/22/97 vs. Kentucky)
Highest completion percentage (career): 62.49%
Highest completion percentage (season): 64.2% (1995)
Lowest interception percentage (career): 2.39%
Lowest interception percentage (season): 1.05% (1995)
Most consecutive passes without an interception (season): 132
Most passing yards (season): 3,819 (1997)
Most passing yards (career): 11,201
Most passing yards (game): 508 (11/22/97 vs. Kentucky)
Most offensive yards (career): 11,020
Most 500+ passing yard games (career): 1
Most 400+ passing yard games (career): 3
Most 300+ passing yard games (career): 18
Most 300+ passing yard games (season): 9 (1997)
Most consecutive 300+ passing yard games: 7
Most 200+ passing yard games (career): 30
Most wins as starting quarterback (career): 39
Most touchdown passes (career): 89
Most touchdown passes (game): 5 (08/30/97 vs. Texas Tech, 11/22/97 vs. Kentucky)
Most touchdowns (career): 101
Most offensive plays (career): 1,534
Most offensive plays (season): 538 (1997)
Most offensive plays (game): 70 (09/21/96 vs. Florida)
SEC records
Lowest interception percentage (season): 1.05% (1995)
Highest completion percentage (career): 62.49%
Lowest interception percentage (career): 2.39%
Most 300+ passing yard games (career): 18
Rookie records
Most touchdown passes: 26 (tied by Russell Wilson in 2012)
Most interceptions thrown: 28
Most consecutive games with a touchdown pass (games 4–16): 13
Most games with at least one touchdown pass: 15
Most games with 300+ yards passing: 4
With Marvin Harrison
Manning and former Colts wide receiver Marvin Harrison hold a number of QB-WR tandem records:
Most completions/receptions (career): 95
Most passing/receiving yards (career): 12,756
Most passing/receiving touchdowns (career): 112
Most completions/receptions in a season, QB-to-WR duo: 143 (2002)
NFL records
Regular season
Most career passing yards: 71,940
Most career touchdown passes: 539
First quarterback to reach 200 career wins (playoffs and regular season)
Most Regular season career wins as starting quarterback: 186 (shared with Brett Favre)
Most touchdown passes, season: 55 (2013)
Most seasons with at least 4,000 passing yards: 14 (1999–2004, 2006–2010, 2012–2014)
Most passing yards, season: 5,477 (2013)
Most games with 40+ pass attempts in a season: 10 (2010)
Most consecutive seasons with at least 20 touchdown passes: 13 (1998–2010)
Most consecutive seasons with at least 25 touchdown passes: 13 (1998–2010)
Most games with a perfect passer rating, career: 4 (includes 1 playoff game)
Most consecutive games started to open a career: 208
Most consecutive games with at least 2 touchdown passes: 13 (games 1–13, 2004)
Most consecutive games with at least 4 touchdown passes: 5 (games 7–11, 2004)
Most games with at least 4 touchdown passes, season: 8 (2013)
Most regular season games with at least 4 touchdown passes, career: 25
Most games with at least 5 touchdown passes, career: 8 (includes 1 playoff game)
Only QB with at least 6 touchdown passes in three games
One of eight QBs with at least 7 touchdown passes in a game
Highest career passing TDs/game average (min. 150 TD passes): 2.046 TDs/game
Highest completion percentage by a QB in one month in NFL history (min. 75 attempts): 81.8% (December 2008)
Most career games with a completion percentage of 70% or higher (min. 10 attempts): 66
Most consecutive regular season wins as a starter: 23 (2008–2009)
Most seasons with 10+ wins as a starter (regular season only): 14 (1999–2000, 2002–2010, 2012–2014)
Most seasons with 12+ wins as a starter (regular season only): 11 (1999, 2003–2009, 2012–2014)
Only QB with seven straight seasons of 12+ wins as a starter(2003–2009)
Only QB to lead five consecutive 4th quarter comeback wins (games 7–11, 2009)
First QB to defeat the other 31 teams in the regular season (Tom Brady did this later the same day, and Brett Favre did it the following week)
Most wins as a starting QB in a decade, regular season: 115 (2000s)
Most AP NFL MVP Awards: 5 (2003, 2004, 2008, 2009, 2013)
Pro Bowl records
Most Pro Bowl selections (tied with Tony Gonzalez, Bruce Matthews, and Merlin Olsen): 14
Most Pro Bowl selections for a QB: 14
Most consecutive Pro Bowl selections for a QB: 9 (during the 2002–2010 seasons)
Most passing attempts (career): 150
Most passing attempts (game): 41 (2004)
Most completions (career): 92
Most completions (game): 22 (2004)
Most passing yards (career): 1,278
Most passing yards (game): 342 (2004)
Most passing touchdowns (career): 13
Colts franchise records
Most passing attempts (career): 7,210
Most passing attempts (season): 679 (2010)
Most 40+ passing attempt games (career): 56
Most completions (career): 4,682
Most completions (season): 450 (2010)
Most completions (game): 40 (09/12/10 at Houston)
Most consecutive completions: 23 (12/14/08-12/18/08 vs. Detroit/Jacksonville)
Most games with 20+ completions (career): 140
Most consecutive games with 20+ completions: 14 (games 1–14, 2010)
Most games with 30+ completions (career): 23
Highest completion percentage (career): 64.9%
Highest completion percentage (season): 68.8% (2009)
Highest completion percentage (rookie season): 56.7%
Highest completion percentage (game): 87.5% (14/16 for 95 yards, 12/30/07 vs. Tennessee)
Most passing yards (career): 54,828
Most passing yards (game): 472 (10/31/04 vs. Kansas City)
Most 300+ passing yard games (career): 63
Most seasons with at least 4,000 passing yards : 11 (1999–2004, 2006–2010)
Most consecutive seasons with at least 4,000 passing yards (1999–2004): 6
Most touchdown passes (career): 399
Most touchdown passes (season): 49 (2004)
Most touchdown passes (rookie season): 26
Most touchdown passes (game): 6 (09/28/03 vs. New Orleans and 11/25/04 vs. Detroit)
Most games with at least 4 touchdown passes (career): 22
Most games with at least 4 touchdown passes (season, 2004): 6
Most games with at least 3 touchdown passes (career): 64
Most games with at least 1 touchdown pass (season): 15 (5 times)
Most games with at least 1 touchdown pass (rookie season): 15 (1998)
Most consecutive uninterrupted games with at least 1 touchdown pass: 27
Most consecutive games with at least 4 touchdown passes (games 7–11, 2004): 5 (2004)
Most consecutive games with at least 3 touchdown passes: 8 (games 5–12, 2004)
Most consecutive games with at least 2 touchdown passes: 13 (games 1–13, 2004)
Most consecutive games with at least 1 touchdown pass (rookie season): 13 (games 4–16)
Most consecutive seasons with at least 25 touchdown passes: 13 (1998–2010)
Highest touchdown percentage (career): 5.66%
Highest touchdown percentage (season): 9.86% (2004)
Highest touchdown percentage (game): 24.00% (09/28/03 vs. New Orleans)
Most interceptions thrown (game): 6 (11/11/07 vs. San Diego)
Most interceptions thrown (season): 28 (1998)
Highest passer rating (career): 94.9
Highest passer rating (season): 121.1 (2004)
Most games with a perfect passer rating (career): 4 (includes 1 playoff game)
Most consecutive games started to open a career by a quarterback: 208 (current)
Most consecutive games started, franchise history: 208 (current)
Most comeback wins in the 4th quarter (career): 35 (includes one playoff game)
Most comeback wins in the 4th quarter (season): 7 (2009)
Most game-winning drives in the 4th quarter/overtime (career): 46 (includes one playoff game)
Most game-winning drives in the 4th quarter/overtime (season): 7 (1999, 2008, 2009)
Broncos franchise records
Highest completion percentage (season): 68.6% (2012)
Highest completion percentage (career): 66.5%
Most completions (season): 450 (2013)
Most pass attempts (season): 679 (2013)
Most passing yards (season): 5,477 (2013)
Most 300+ passing yard games (season): 12 (2013)
Most 400+ passing yard games (season): 3 (2013)
Highest average passing yards per game (season): 342.3 (2013)
Highest average passing yards per game (career): 295.0
Most touchdown passes (game): 7 (September 5, 2013 vs. Baltimore Ravens)
Most touchdown passes (season): 55 (2013)
Highest passer rating (season): 115.1 (2013)
Highest passer rating (career): 101.7
Most seasons with 100+ passer rating: 3 (2012–2014)
Most touchdown passes without an interception (game): 7 (September 5, 2013 vs. Baltimore Ravens)
Most seasons with at least 4,000 passing yards : 3 (2012–2014)
Highest winning percentage as a starter (career): 78.9% (45-12-0)
A ton of the stuff you said is irrelevant. College and pro bowl stats mean nothing when talking about all time nfl greatness. Brady as just as many patriots records. He also has some nfl records. A few less regular season ones as of now. If he is healthy, he will absolutely pass manning in yards. He could come close in completions, and he is just a little lower in percentage. So when brady is is going to end up above manning in some stats and a little below in some, but having every playoff record and not having HoF receivers like reggie and marvin, there is no debate.
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
That's all I needed to know in that paragraph,some people will never learn.
Except it's the truth. College stats don't equate to nfl, and pro bowl stats mean nothing. Just look at what I said and you know it's the truth. Brady is right now just a little behind manning in a ton of stats.
Pikachu Fan Number Nine
Don't Mess wit Texas
Let's not forget Drew Brees.
I don't forget him. He is for sure one of the best ever, but unfortunately just never got the chance for a ton of playoff games to prove himself with that outside of winning the one SB. At least he got that though...marino never got one ring.