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Nidoking Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Older Gens' started by WeatherEffectRain, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. Rhys29

    Rhys29 Encore

    This. Considering Heracross has roughly the same power as Nidoking and has the exact same Speed, and he's a bad choice for a Choice Scarf, I would advise against it. Not to mention there are far better special tanks and walls than physical, which means Nidoking has an even harder time running a Scarf.

    If you're going to use a Choice Scarf on Nidoking, you're using him for the wrong reasons. Roserade would make a better Choice Scarfer for the same reasons you listed. It's harder to predict, since most Roserade's in OU are TS or Spikes based, so running either of those moves on a Choice set can mess with foes late game. Also has Sleep Powder. It even doubles as a status absorber.

    I really, really wish Nidoking was better. It would need, at minimum, base 100 Speed if it were to function in OU. It is, however, a godsend for Poison-type mono teams when teamed up with Venomoth. That's about it.​
     
  2. Ah, but remember the base stat isn't what's being multiplied, it's the actual stat. When you multiply the actual SpA stat, you get a number closer to what a hypothetical Base 129 SpA Pokemon would have (yeah, I accidently counted it as a 1.3 boost instead of 1.33, so it's 129 instead of 127). Here, I'll show you a trick I use to calculate Base stats from boosts.

    Ok, so you start with this formula.

    (Stat*Variable) + (50*Increase)

    Ok, so we have Nidoking with a Base 85 SpA stat. The variable it's stat is being multiplied by is 1.33. However, the actually increase is just 33%, or .33. So our formula looks like this.

    (85*1.33) + (50*.33) = 113 + 16 = 129

    I know 50*.33 = 16.5, but you always want to round down. A way you can double check this is by multiplying the actual stat itself and comparing it with a Pokemon with a similar base stat. For example, Modest Nidoking gets a maximum of 295 SpA. Multiply that times 1.33 and you get 392.35, or just 392. Now we can compare this to Terrakion, who has a Base 129 Atk stat. What's its max with Adamant? 392. So since positive natured Nidoking with Sheer Force effectively has an identical stat to positive natured Terrakion, we can assume that the effective Base stat is the same: 129.

    So yeah, I use this trick when calculating equivalent Base stats for things like Evolite users, Sandstorm SpD boosts, etc.
     
  3. Pinsirius

    Pinsirius Sentimental Fool ;)

    Zapdos is UU now? Dear lawd.
     
  4. Zachmac

    Zachmac Well-Known Member

    Well, it's not like you can just happen to slap it on any random team, but my team loves it's choice scarf set. It will take some good prediction, but I'm personally fine with that.

    It's not OU material, but it will work on some teams. The team I use it in it wasn't even built around.

    About Heracross....Nidoking has better moves. Sure, Close Combat is good, and Megahorn is fine, but what else does Heracross have? Nidoking has enough moves to run it. Bolt beam, Flamethrower, STAB earth power. It works great for me.
     
  5. LinksOcarina

    LinksOcarina The true master

    STAB of those moves and a defensive typing helps Heracross a lot. The problem it has is it's predictable; almost all Heracross are the same.
     
  6. WeatherEffectRain

    WeatherEffectRain Arm Wrestle?

    Oh, I getcha. I just divided by 3 and added. Lol. *Edits in*

    Hey, doesn't that mean Nidoking has the same Base SAtk as Kerudio? Well cool then. And, then, assuming Grey has Elemental Punches, using your method it's... 138? Wow. That's awesome. Too bad he has to use a weaker EQ if that happens. *Formulates assumed set*
     
  7. Ilan

    Ilan Well-Known Member

    why don't just run timid? there are lots of pokemons who don't have more than 295 speed even in OU mostly neutral (in speed) nature pokemons I dodn't get the calculation

    295 speed means neutral nature base...? I think it is base 100 not sure...


    I think nidoking should be used as a wall breaker that clears all those slow and bulky things like dragonite,ferrothorn,conkeldurr,vaporeon, those stuff...

    I prefer life orb timid natured nidoking on the modest natured it let's you kill unscarfed heatrans!
     
  8. Ninja Dewott

    Ninja Dewott Ice Cold Fire

    I don't get why people find a scarf bad on Nidoking.

    Darmanitan has Sheer Force, and he's best with a scarf, as with a life orb, he'll just get outsped and he has enough power as it is. Same goes for Nidoking. With a scarf boosting his speed, high power from Sheer Force and a large movepool, he makes a good revenge killer.
     
  9. Yep, it does have the same effective SpA as Keldeo while using Sheer Force. It would have an effective Base 138 Atk as well, but the extra power of BoltBeamThrower makes a special set better than a physical one with the elemental punches.

    Oh, you'll want to run Timid. I was just using Modest as an example. After all, Timid Nidoking (neutral SpA) has the equivalent of 357.77 SpA with Sheer Force in mind, or 357 once you round down. Jolly Terrakion (neutral Atk) also has 357. So the equation still works with neutral natures.

    But yeah, run Timid.
     
  10. WeatherEffectRain

    WeatherEffectRain Arm Wrestle?

    ^Unless Scarfed, then the added speed is unnecissary. Unless I missed something.

    But yeah. All this talk combined with my bias means I'mma go make a Nidoking team now. Lol.
     
  11. With Timid, you outspeed things like positive Base 80s and neutral Base 95s. I guess the need for Timid on a Scarfed set would vary on from team to team, although I'm personally a fan of the LO set myself.
     
  12. Pichu47

    Pichu47 Fear Me, If You Dare

    I am also a fan of the life orb set because it breaks down walls and everything slower than it. I guess scarf would work well too though.
     
  13. WeatherEffectRain

    WeatherEffectRain Arm Wrestle?

    Well I'd only run Timid if I needed to - The drop in power I dislike.

    And Life Orb probably is used more though, Nidoking does have that Wallbreaker feel to it. Lol. I mean actual walls.

    Also, I just found out that as of October Nidoking's usage is No. 74 in OU, and in UU it's 35. Lol.
     
  14. sSerenity

    sSerenity Well-Known Member

    I love BP Quiver Dance to him ... Venomoth / Nidoking for the wiiiiin !
     
  15. Zachmac

    Zachmac Well-Known Member

    But most Nidoking aren't scarfed. I've caught many people off guard with that. I took out a starmie which thought it could KO it, but was outsped and KOed by t-bolt.

    Also, Boltbeam+flamethrower is amazing. If you're good at predicting, the combination of those moves can hit tons of swap ins. I had KOed a pokemon with t-bolt today, and they realized it was a scarf holder. Later, I ended up in a situation where I could of used T-bolt to KO, but I realized that Flamethrower should also be able to finish the job, and they'd probably expect T-bolt. They ended up swapping in Ferrothorn.
    I might try that.
     
  16. Eranu™

    Eranu™ Well-Known Member

    I always find it hard to scout it's set.
    If it switches in on one of my faster pokes it obvious but if they lead with it I never take chances.
    It's one of the best pokes in UU, but i think it's not as useful in OU since it's move set is predictable and lots of Scarf Terrakion/Landorus.
     
  17. Zachmac

    Zachmac Well-Known Member

    When you face Terrakion or Landorus, just swap in a pokemon that resist EQ, has levitate, air balloons, are is a flying type.
     

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