Nintendo releasing the same thing over again. What?

[Excitable Boy]

i've never played any of those games but I can assure you that they're all the same

because if they weren't, why would they have the same name

 

[ForeverFlame]

This strategy began when the 3DS initially failed. They just kept pumping out unoriginal Mario games and N64 remakes until things got better, and it actually worked. So they tried it again with the Wii U (NSMB U and 3D World were great, but they're both unoriginal as hell) and... well... it didn't work as well as it did for the 3DS.

Nintendo always released Mario games, but until this generation and their "pump out games to get console sales" mentality they were all pretty original and distinctive. The same with Zelda games (OoT3D and ALBW were good, but you can't argue that a remake and a direct sequel are original). Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Super Smash Bros, and Kirby are also future victims of their "pump out unoriginal games" strategy.

Not to mention their mess of a virtual console system. I can't believe it's 2014 and SMB3 isn't even on the 3DS yet.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

This strategy began when the 3DS initially failed. They just kept pumping out unoriginal Mario games and N64 remakes until things got better, and it actually worked. So they tried it again with the Wii U (NSMB U and 3D World were great, but they're both unoriginal as hell) and... well... it didn't work as well as it did for the 3DS.

Nintendo always released Mario games, but until this generation and their "pump out games to get console sales" mentality they were all pretty original and distinctive. The same with Zelda games (OoT3D and ALBW were good, but you can't argue that a remake and a direct sequel are original). Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Super Smash Bros, and Kirby are also future victims of their "pump out unoriginal games" strategy.

That strategy dates all the way back to about 2009-2010 actually, with games like NSMB Wii, Super Mario Galaxy 2, and to a lesser degree Donkey Kong Country Returns.

 

[Monek_OP]

Wow, you're right, at least from a Mario aspect. However, Pokémon's been the same formula since GSC, and we all know it.

 

[TheFonz]

That strategy dates all the way back to about 2009-2010 actually, with games like NSMB Wii, Super Mario Galaxy 2, and to a lesser degree Donkey Kong Country Returns.

Those were actually ALL NEW things. There was nothing like NSMB Wii at all, the only other NSMB game was released for the DS in 2006(I believe it was 2006) and the gameplay of the two games were pretty different. Especially 4 people being able to play at once, the bubble thing, that little spin you can do to make jumps easier, way different power ups, etc. Were the Koopalings even in a game between SMW and NSMB Wii?

A sequel to a game isn't necessarily rehashed. There were a bunch of different things they did and it was well worth another title. A 3rd one however would be a bit "eh" to me until I played it.

Now PLEASE explain how reviving a series that had 3 games on the SNES(with remakes on the handhelds) over a decade later is rehashed?

 

[Avenger Angel]

I think the truth is... we need more new original franchises, new likable characters, new themes, and new worlds that can appeal to gamers of all ages. Sure, it's a risk and some of those will inevitably capsize, but there may be a few gems that really catch on well.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Those were actually ALL NEW things.

You could arguably say DKCR is, it basically brought back the DKC series which hadn't seen a new game in a while. NSMB Wii definitely wasn't, it was a vanilla sequel that didn't add anything interesting (more on that below). Galaxy 2 wasn't really new either, it didn't do much that Galaxy 1 wasn't.

There was nothing like NSMB Wii at all, the only other NSMB game was released for the DS in 2006(I believe it was 2006) and the gameplay of the two games were pretty different. Especially 4 people being able to play at once, the bubble thing, that little spin you can do to make jumps easier, way different power ups, etc. Were the Koopalings even in a game between SMW and NSMB Wii?

Most of these changes weren't really fun or interesting. The co-op thing was interesting, but it doesn't affect the single player experience. And the only power up in that game that was really different was the Propeller Mario, everything else was taken from other games or similar to other power ups.

A sequel to a game isn't necessarily rehashed. There were a bunch of different things they did and it was well worth another title. A 3rd one however would be a bit "eh" to me until I played it.

It's not the repetition that defines a rehash, although that's certainly a contributing factor. It's when the gameplay doesn't change much from one game to the next. NSMB, for example, plays pretty similarly each time, so it's not very fun to play more than once.

Now PLEASE explain how reviving a series that had 3 games on the SNES(with remakes on the handhelds) over a decade later is rehashed?

It's not, I was actually quite happy to see the first NSMB pop up because it hadn't been done in a while and did some things that other 2D games hadn't (they created the Mega Mushroom and brought over some 3D Mario moves like Ground Pound and Wall Kick). But future games didn't really expand on this gameplay style or do anything different, it was as if they copy/pasted the game into future NSMB titles, they all felt really uninspired.

 

[TheFonz]

NSMBU is the vanilla-ish sequel most definitely, but how is NSMB Wii a vanilla sequel? It played a lot differently from SMB1-3 and SMW and the controls are different. Sure it's B to run, A to jump, etc,(you can't just expect a Mario game to NOT be a Mario game) but it's still a much different feel and a much different style than the 2D games that came before it. Yes even the first NSMB, especially since it was released on the DS so much earlier.

NSMBU and NSLU are still fun, but they released them all a bit too much and even with NSMB2. It was just a bit too much in a shorter amount of time and unfortunately the NSMB series likes its games to be more similar than most people like.

The problem people have with Mario is mostly stemming from the NSMB series and the most recent games being more important about how fun it is to play and the overly happy happy joy joy stuff. The NSMB games are absolutely fun to play, they just needed a bit more difference between each other, and NSLU was a perfect example of that.

Quite a bunch of people haven't even given SM3DL and SM3DW a chance and yet they're just supposed to be fun games that have a bunch of throwbacks in them. Nothing is wrong with the SM3DL/W series but it seems being mixed with NSMB makes them feel a bit less special somehow? These two games still have amazing final bosses and aftergame stuff to do, but I can totally understand being tired of the NSMB series

 

[Bolt the Cat]

NSMBU is the vanilla-ish sequel most definitely, but how is NSMB Wii a vanilla sequel? It played a lot differently from SMB1-3 and SMW and the controls are different. Sure it's B to run, A to jump, etc,(you can't just expect a Mario game to NOT be a Mario game) but it's still a much different feel and a much different style than the 2D games that came before it. Yes even the first NSMB, especially since it was released on the DS so much earlier.

Mario has the same moves, the levels have the same feel as levels in past games, and most of the power ups don't really feel new. I should ask you how the feel and style are different. For that matter, how is the feel and style different in any Mario game in the last 7 years besides the Galaxy games, those are the only ones that really stand out to me.

Also, I'd have to say the most vanilla sequel would be NSMB2, with NSMB Wii and NSMBU not far behind.

NSMBU and NSLU are still fun, but they released them all a bit too much and even with NSMB2. It was just a bit too much in a shorter amount of time and unfortunately the NSMB series likes its games to be more similar than most people like.

The problem people have with Mario is mostly stemming from the NSMB series and the most recent games being more important about how fun it is to play and the overly happy happy joy joy stuff. The NSMB games are absolutely fun to play, they just needed a bit more difference between each other, and NSLU was a perfect example of that.

Quite a bunch of people haven't even given SM3DL and SM3DW a chance and yet they're just supposed to be fun games that have a bunch of throwbacks in them. Nothing is wrong with the SM3DL/W series but it seems being mixed with NSMB makes them feel a bit less special somehow? These two games still have amazing final bosses and aftergame stuff to do, but I can totally understand being tired of the NSMB series

Again, it's a combination of a large amount games released in a short period of time, and not enough differences in gameplay to distinguish them. What has Mario done differently in each game to warrant 8 games in the last 7 years?

 

[TheFonz]

Mario has the same moves, the levels have the same feel as levels in past games, and most of the power ups don't really feel new. I should ask you how the feel and style are different. For that matter, how is the feel and style different in any Mario game in the last 7 years besides the Galaxy games, those are the only ones that really stand out to me.

Also, I'd have to say the most vanilla sequel would be NSMB2, with NSMB Wii and NSMBU not far behind.

My point was that NSMB1 was a great new thing, NSMB Wii expanded upon it and offered enough so that it was pretty different from the first one. It introduced all 4 players able to play at the same time, the Toads being playable characters, the return of the Koopalings, the return of the NES style control. And something returning is a good thing as long as it's different from the previous games.

However, like you said they released a bit too much of a series that is supposed to be appealing to the nostalgia mostly and not being something new and out there like 64, SS, Galaxy, etc. It was NSMB2 and NSMBU being released that did it, nothing is wrong with a NSMB title on the DS and Wii, but the 3DS and Wii U ones came out a bit too quickly and didn't add enough. NSLU did it correctly though

You're also pairing NSMB and SM3DL/W together when they're two different series. SM3DL was a major throwback to many things from 2D and 3D Mario. That was the point of introducing a new style that is 3D, yet different than another 64/SS/Galaxy. SM3DW was in the same style, but with quite a few differences. Absolutely far from being a port like everyone said.

Again, it's a combination of a large amount games released in a short period of time, and not enough differences in gameplay to distinguish them. What has Mario done differently in each game to warrant 8 games in the last 7 years?

There's three series to consider. The 64/SS/Galaxy like series, the 3DL/W series, and the NSMB series. Each have different purposes
2006-NSMB: great game, great combo of new and old and a return to new 2D games. Totally worth a purchase

2007- SMG1: one of the greatest games around. Absolutely worth a purchase

2008-nothing

2009- continuation of the NSMB series. Why not bring one to the Wii? Wiimote is perfect for 2D play, intro to 4 players at the same time(which was heavily advertised), and the Koopalings were back. Played differently than NSMB1, faithful to SMB1-3 and SMW. A ton of NSMB merchandise came with it. Absolutely worth a purchase for any Mario fan who wants a fun game that can be challenging at times

2010-SMG2, they had some leftover ideas from the endless possibilities of space and were able to create a whole new game without being repetitive. Worth it again

2011-SM3DL: Woah, hey a reason to buy a 3DS with Mario Kart 7! A new twist. Not 2D, but not like previous 3D titles. Probably the most balanced throw back game. A bunch of stages, awesome final boss, return of Tanooki, very long aftergame. Definitely worth buying for that new fangled 3DS that didn't have any games

2012- Here's when things got tricky. They released 2 NSMB games in the same year, but for different systems. They weren't exactly too different from previous installments. Sure they added a lot of new minor stuff, but they made too many things similar

2013- NSLU-Luigi's own game, Mario nowhere to be seen. People are tired of NSMB series so it wasn't as big, but it was still a great twist and certainly a great purchase to make. A VERY tough game, so it was great to have more of a challenge back

SM3DW: People got sick of Mario from the past year because of everything added up together. This is the same style of SM3DL so it turned people off at E3. Once some other people gave it a chance and played, they saw that it's a great game and isn't as bad as it seems. Super fun multiplayer, great final boss, and great after game! Introduction to Stamps, and SMB2 style returning with Rosalina being playable

In conclusion, Nintendo over did it with NSMB and Mario hasn't recovered because people were expecting something to blow Galaxy away

 

[Void Ventus]

So, new stories, new settings, and new stages are considered unique things now? I thought that's what sequels were known for?? And a lot of sequels also add new gameplay mechanics/gimmicks.

Anyway, I think the main problem is that people just dismiss Nintendo consoles as "that Mario/Pokémon platform". A lot of people just ignore the "other games", but when there is a new Mario or Pokémon, they instantly buy that. And because those sell the most/are marketed the most/reviewed the best, there comes the false interpretation that Nintendo only has a few games. Nintendo has HUGE third-party support in Japan, but LITTLE TO ZERO third-party support in the west.

Fallout 3 and New Vegas, Morrowind and Skyrim, Tomb Raider, Bioshock series, Mass Effect trilogy, Assassin's Creed series, Batman Arkham series, Call of Duty series, Battlefield series, and the Grand Theft Auto series are just a SMALL selection of heavy hitting third-party support outside Japan that are on the PS360, but not on the Wii or Wii U... ME3 and ACIII/IV are though.

You NEED third-party support to help your console/handhelds live longer and maintain a steady flow of high-quality games. The NES/SNES/Gameboy line/DS line all had fantastic third-party support, and the 3DS is also having an excellent third-party support from JPN developers. The N64/VB/GC/Wii barely had support, and the Wii U is also barely getting support. What do the NES/SNES/GB/DS/3DS have in common? They were HUGE SUCCESSES! What do the N64/VB/GC/Wii/U have in common? All failures.

...I guess calling the Wii a failure is really stupid. But the fitness gimmick really did a huge help in getting that 100M hardware sales, but then again, it also probably did damage to Nintendo's identity.

So what does this all mean?
1) Nintendo has got to try to put an effort in getting third-parties to make games for the Wii U, now that they are trying to compete in the hardcore market again
2) Nintendo has to stop using the same freaking IPs all the time. Seriously, use a character other than Mario or Link. Bring back a character that hasn't had a new game in forever... Like Captain Falcon. Bringing back the Pikmin was a good step.
3) Nintendo does nothing. Their fans will just about buy any Mario games. Is there franchise fatigue? Maybe not, considering Mario still brings in all the money, and Nintendo fans aren't saying anything.

 

[TheFonz]

1. The ENTIRE REASON why 3rd parties and Nintendo are at odds is because of how terrible western developers are and Nintendo doesn't agree with their style. Also because Nintendo had some pretty harsh ways of treating them during the N64 era. Even then, it doesn't mean Nintendo should be a third copy of a console just because the "hardcore" gamers want Nintendo's games without the consoles apparently

Btw how were the N64, GCN, and Wii all failures? They made a PROFIT and still made GREAT games. I'd like your definition of failure besides 3rd parties not putting any effort into even trying games for the Wii

2. Don't spread lies. There's more than Mario and Link, don't insult everyone's intelligence. Oh so Pikmin was a nice step? Yeah I guess Nintendo will just keep pumping out older unused IPs considering Pikmin 3 still wasn't enough ALONG WITH A NEW IP, The Wonderful 101. We also got an underused character an entire year dedicated to himself. And look what happened! It still wasn't enough for the "hardcore" gamers

3. Did you even read the conversation between myself and Bolt The Cat? Both of us agree NSMB is tired out

 

[Void Ventus]

1. The ENTIRE REASON why 3rd parties and Nintendo are at odds is because of how terrible western developers are and Nintendo doesn't agree with their style. Also because Nintendo had some pretty harsh ways of treating them during the N64 era. Even then, it doesn't mean Nintendo should be a third copy of a console just because the "hardcore" gamers want Nintendo's games without the consoles apparently

Btw how were the N64, GCN, and Wii all failures? They made a PROFIT and still made GREAT games. I'd like your definition of failure besides 3rd parties not putting any effort into even trying games for the Wii

2. Don't spread lies. There's more than Mario and Link, don't insult everyone's intelligence. Oh so Pikmin was a nice step? Yeah I guess Nintendo will just keep pumping out older unused IPs considering Pikmin 3 still wasn't enough ALONG WITH A NEW IP, The Wonderful 101. We also got an underused character an entire year dedicated to himself. And look what happened! It still wasn't enough for the "hardcore" gamers

3. Did you even read the conversation between myself and Bolt The Cat? Both of us agree NSMB is tired out

1)Western developers are terrible? Are you one of those people who think all Japanese games are the best because they had the games from your childhood? That's severely limiting your options. Anyways, the N64 was when things really looked bad for Nintendo's home consoles. They lost huge support from very big Japanese developers. Games from the Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Megaman, and Castlevania series all went to the PS1. Those were huge franchises that have abandoned the N64 in favor of the newer and more aggressive PS1. Those are some big names that Nintendo lost, all because of what? Sticking to cartridges? Look at the Wii. Barely any support from big any big name developers. All because they chose to live in the past, and not have an HD console until 2012. By no means am I saying makes a PS4, Xbone, AND Wii U versions of the same game. No, no. That's stupid. The Wii U version would look the worst after all, and that'd be unfair. Maybe try to moneyhat Capcom to make a new main Megaman game exclusively, or even Monster Hunter 5 or SE for DQXI, all for the Wii U.

The N64 and GC were failures in the fact that they lost a HUGE market share. The PS1, the new kid in the block who's had zero experience in the gaming hardware business, went from ZERO market share to ONE-HUNDRED MILLION markets are in the same generation. Nintendo on the other hand already had a decade of experience, and was leader those whole 10 years. I guess I shouldn't really call the N64 or GC failures, but rather giant disappointments. 5th gen, PS1 had over 50% more sales than the N64 and lost a huge market share. 6th gen, GC once again lost to the new competition, the Xbox, and the difference between the PS2 and GC sales were even greater. The PS3 lost a huge market share to the Xbox 360, as they are now both neck-to-neck. Nintendo on the 7th gen finally managed to find a lucky gimmick that did wonders for them, but I think this family friendly image of the Wii is doing damage to the Wii U. Everyone thinks the Wii U is just an expensive Wii add-on. If no one buys a Wii U, why would third party devs make exclusive games for it, when the PS4 is breaking launch sales record, and both the PS4 and Xbone are looking healthier?

2) Before getting smart with your third comment, did YOU even read the my whole comment? It's in the second paragraph. I said it's a misconception, that the average consumer thinks Nintendo only makes Mario, Zelda and Pokémon games. And yes, Pikmin 3 was a nice step. Bring back older IPs, the older fans will get all nostalgic about a game that hasn't had a game in decades, and buy it. This, along with new IPs, might bring a better word of mouth about the Wii U. Pikmin 3 was niche, but it still sold well. We haven't had a StarFox game on a console since the GC. Now might be a good time to bring it back. Year of Luigi was good, but he's associated with the Mario IP. The Internet says if it's Mario, it's just another Mario game no matter what it is. And why are quoting hardcore? Stop being over pretentious. I'd rather play Pokémon any day than COD.

3) No, I did not read yours or Bolt's comment. I was talking about the average consumer. You know, the grandma that will probably buy you a UPlay pad instead of a Wii U because both have a tablet, and both have a U in their names? The average consumer that don't look up info on the Internet, or don't visit these gaming forums? Pretty sure you know or have heard of these people. Look at God of War Ascension and Gears of War Judgment. God of War is a big Playstation IP. GOW, II and III each have sold over 4M copies. GOWA on the other hand still sold quite a lot, but it's a noticeable at only 1.5M copies sold. Gears of War is a big IP that helped push the Xbox 360 into the popularity early in its life cycle. GEOW1 and 2 have sold over 6M each, and 3 was just around 50K shy of reaching 6M. Judgment however only has around 1.4M copies sold. Now, you could have different reason why they sold this low, but one of the reasons is franchise fatigue. You think GOWA and GeOWJ are cheap cash-ins before the next-gen comes? Well, vote with your wallet and show these developers you want something new, not just another sequel of these games.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

My point was that NSMB1 was a great new thing, NSMB Wii expanded upon it and offered enough so that it was pretty different from the first one. It introduced all 4 players able to play at the same time, the Toads being playable characters, the return of the Koopalings, the return of the NES style control. And something returning is a good thing as long as it's different from the previous games.

This is where you and I differ, IMO what NSMB Wii did wasn't enough to distinguish it from NSMB1.

You're also pairing NSMB and SM3DL/W together when they're two different series. SM3DL was a major throwback to many things from 2D and 3D Mario. That was the point of introducing a new style that is 3D, yet different than another 64/SS/Galaxy. SM3DW was in the same style, but with quite a few differences. Absolutely far from being a port like everyone said.

I'm pairing them together because the gameplay is the same, pretty much the only difference is that one's in 2D and one's in 3D. It's the same gameplay in both.

In conclusion, Nintendo over did it with NSMB and Mario hasn't recovered because people were expecting something to blow Galaxy away

Not quite something that blows Galaxy away, but they were at least expecting something unique and innovative that demonstrated the Wii U's potential in the same way that 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy did for their respective consoles. Releasing 3D Land 2 doesn't really do that, you need something more unique than that.

So, new stories, new settings, and new stages are considered unique things now? I thought that's what sequels were known for?? And a lot of sequels also add new gameplay mechanics/gimmicks.

That's just it, though, for the most part Nintendo isn't doing this with their sequels, so they end up feeling rehashy.