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Nintendo Switch: Nintendo's Next Hardware - SOURCE ALL NEWS/RUMORS

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
More characters/activity on screen at once. Larger environments. Less time necessary to load between environments. Shorter load times between modes.

More processing power is the difference between a smaller Hyrule Field broken up into segments where the game has to reload as you go from the plains to the mountains to the lake, or an absolutely massive Hyrule Field that is completely crystal clear, fluid and seamless from one end to the other.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Creating physically more complex games, better, smoother animations, larger worlds, more content, more dynamic content, etc.
More characters/activity on screen at once. Larger environments. Less time necessary to load between environments. Shorter load times between modes.
The bolded aren't innovations. I'm not even sure the rest of those are either.

More processing power is the difference between a smaller Hyrule Field broken up into segments where the game has to reload as you go from the plains to the mountains to the lake, or an absolutely massive Hyrule Field that is completely crystal clear, fluid and seamless from one end to the other.
Do you know the meaning of the word "innovation"?
 

Hydrohs

安らかに眠ります、岩田さん。
Staff member
Super Mod
The bolded aren't innovations. I'm not even sure the rest of those are either.



Do you know the meaning of the word "innovation"?
I never once mentioned innovations. You don't need to innovate to make something good. That's part of Nintendo's problem, that rather than just making some games they're trying to innovate, and just forcing yourself to innovate is not innovation.
 
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BCVM22

Well-Known Member
Do you know the meaning of the word "innovation"?
I sure do. I could define it for you if it were relevant to the discussion. You asked what benefits there are to more processing power and you got your answer and now you're saying "okay but none of those are innovations [to my subjective and often fickle satisfaction]" which isn't what anyone was discussing.
 

Excitable Boy

is a metaphor
Being able to produce more objects and interactions simultaneously and seamlessly is how we get games like Pikmin; having more RAM and being able to generate, analyze, and store larger quantities of data is what allows something like Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis System to exist.

Depending on how you're going to be trying to "innovate" the control interface, there's a decent chance that you're going to need more power under the hood for that, particularly if you want to emphasize accuracy and/or precision. Adding background functions, like a new feature to an OS, or something in-game (especially with any kind of external communication) is probably going to take some more processing power as well.

Visuals may very well receive diminishing returns (and if GPU power kept soaring exponentially, you'd need people to make all those assets in the first place), but there's always room to improve; after all, if there wasn't, you wouldn't buy a PS5 in 2020.
 
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Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I sure do. I could define it for you if it were relevant to the discussion. You asked what benefits there are to more processing power and you got your answer and now you're saying "okay but none of those are innovations [to my subjective and often fickle satisfaction]" which isn't what anyone was discussing.
Poor choice of wording on my part. It's not just that they're not innovations, but those things also fall into the "details/polish" pile. If you can make larger areas, less load time, and smoother animations, great. Those aren't really new, next gen things though, you're just doing the same thing but bigger and better.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
If you can make larger areas, less load time, and smoother animations, great. Those aren't really new, next gen things though, you're just doing the same thing but bigger and better.
Which is where the discussion began. Again, there's only so much further that graphics can improve in the current paradigm. And as explained above, "power" - processing ability - is the currency that enables every other brand of improvement. You couldn't have done the Wii U Gamepad as a simple add-on for the Wii, because the Wii U uses that increase in ability to handle the process of input and output from/to the Gamepad.

And as for "Those aren't really new, next gen things", it's all in how that power gets used. They could not have done Wind Waker's Great Sea as it was on the GameCube on the Nintendo 64, for example - it would have been a much more segmented, choppier and less open experience. If you're able to use that processing ability to do something you couldn't do on previous hardware, or to take something done on previous hardware and made it markedly better, who's to say that isn't "next gen" and instead label it derogatorily as "just doing the same thing but bigger and better". Isn't that how we got to the current point in just about long-running franchise?
 

Jb

Tsun in the streets
I wish Nintendo would stop the innovation in at least their main titles. Skyward Swords looks like great game but I'll never play it because of forced shitty motion controls. The tablet controller is also a usless gimmick that could probably bring the overall system price to to at least 250 if it wasn't included. Shame.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
See, that's you discarding otherwise worthwhile products because of preconceived notions on your part. That's fine, but "Nintendo should stop these things because I decided not to play them" - not even "I tried it and wasn't a fan", but "I didn't even try in the first place" - isn't worthwhile rationale for anything.

Calling the tablet controller "a useless gimmick" is especially senseless.
 

Jb

Tsun in the streets
Not exactly. The fact is, Wii Motion Plus isn't 100% accurate like a wired controller. Motion control being bad for gaming isn't a preconceived notion, it's an objective fact. Nintendo should stop making it harder for gamers to play their games in general. Things like low storage space, terrible account system, underpowered hardware are anti-gamer in today's market.

I can't help it mate, 99% of games only use it for the minimap. What am I supposed to think?
 

Zachmac

Well-Known Member
Not exactly. The fact is, Wii Motion Plus isn't 100% accurate like a wired controller. Motion control being bad for gaming isn't a preconceived notion, it's an objective fact. Nintendo should stop making it harder for gamers to play their games in general. Things like low storage space, terrible account system, underpowered hardware are anti-gamer in today's market.
Motion controls can be used well.

In Skyward Sword, Link could only swing in 8 directions. Whenever you swung the Wii Remote, it picked which one of those directions was closet, and used that. It took a bit of a learning curb, but I found, from personal experience, that the motion controls were generally both accurate and stable in that game and allowed for a type of gameplay you wouldn't see in any other game.

A gimmick isn't necessarily bad if it's a gimmick done well.
That said, the Gamepad could of done a little bit better, but I at least feel like the Wii was rather successful in its gimmick.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
Motion control being bad for gaming isn't a preconceived notion, it's an objective fact.
"Objective fact"? Not even remotely. You're joking.

Nintendo should stop making it harder for gamers to play their games in general.
If something like motion control as implemented in Skyward Sword made it "harder" for you to play the game, you were doing it wrong.

Things like low storage space, terrible account system, underpowered hardware are anti-gamer in today's market.
Conscious decisions that often lead to their hardware being underfeatured when compared to the competition? Sure. "Anti-gamer"? Don't take it that personally, because it isn't.

I can't help it mate, 99% of games only use it for the minimap. What am I supposed to think?
And even if that is the specific argument you were making - which isn't accurate, and which "the tablet controller is also a usless gimmick" does not convey - the tablet still has value to an entertainment center solely in its ability to stream multiple varieties of content from the system without an external display.
 

Excitable Boy

is a metaphor
the tablet still has value to an entertainment center solely in its ability to stream multiple varieties of content from the system without an external display.
And now to wait for Microsoft to blame the Wii U for the Xbone's failure to capture the living room.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Not exactly. The fact is, Wii Motion Plus isn't 100% accurate like a wired controller. Motion control being bad for gaming isn't a preconceived notion, it's an objective fact. Nintendo should stop making it harder for gamers to play their games in general. Things like low storage space, terrible account system, underpowered hardware are anti-gamer in today's market.

I can't help it mate, 99% of games only use it for the minimap. What am I supposed to think?
Just because motion controls weren't perfect in that game doesn't mean they never can be.
 

Jb

Tsun in the streets
it picked which one of those directions was closet, and used that.
The fact that you admit that, means you should know that motion control should never be the only option of control in a game like Zelda.
"Objective fact"? Not even remotely. You're joking.
Nope. Nothing less than 100% is ideal for gaming. It's why competitive gamers prefer to use wired controllers over wireless even though the lag is negligible. It's the same more motion control but motion control/Wii Motion Plus is nowhere near as accurate.

If something like motion control as implemented in Skyward Sword made it "harder" for you to play the game, you were doing it wrong.
The only thing wrong was that you had to buy a whole new Wiimote or accessory to play the damn game. That and it forced you to pretty much sit upright.


Conscious decisions that often lead to their hardware being underfeatured when compared to the competition? Sure. "Anti-gamer"? Don't take it that personally, because it isn't.
Hey though aren't the only things. Just because it wasn't their intention doesn't mean it isn't anti-gamer. Digital gaming is growing and shipping consoles with a 8gb HD is beyond laughable.


And even if that is the specific argument you were making - which isn't accurate, and which "the tablet controller is also a usless gimmick" does not convey - the tablet still has value to an entertainment center solely in its ability to stream multiple varieties of content from the system without an external display.
Just because it can do something doesn't mean it's useful. I can throw dead batteries at my enemies but they aren't exactly the best thing to use again my opponent. The fact is, the Tablet control has yet to be used to any degree of relevance for the most part. Sure, it can stream games but that's only necessary to the extreme minority that bought the Wii U but didn't have a TV.
 

Auraninja

Try to understand.
The fact that you admit that, means you should know that motion control should never be the only option of control in a game like Zelda.

Nope. Nothing less than 100% is ideal for gaming. It's why competitive gamers prefer to use wired controllers over wireless even though the lag is negligible. It's the same more motion control but motion control/Wii Motion Plus is nowhere near as accurate.
I will admit to Skyward Sword being persnickety, but that is about it. Skyward Sword had that one hurdle, and it's not that difficult to get up to otherwise enjoy a great game. Now, if one doesn't like Skyward Sword, than that's fine, no points taken off. It's just the insistence that the game is bad because of one flaw that didn't break the game.

The only thing wrong was that you had to buy a whole new Wiimote or accessory to play the damn game. That and it forced you to pretty much sit upright.
Or even worse, stand up.

Just because it can do something doesn't mean it's useful. I can throw dead batteries at my enemies but they aren't exactly the best thing to use again my opponent. The fact is, the Tablet control has yet to be used to any degree of relevance for the most part. Sure, it can stream games but that's only necessary to the extreme minority that bought the Wii U but didn't have a TV.
IDK, sitting on my bed to play Wind Waker while my mom is plugging at City Folk isn't a bad way to kill time.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
Nope. Nothing less than 100% is ideal for gaming. It's why competitive gamers prefer to use wired controllers over wireless even though the lag is negligible.
Oh, well, if it bothers the competitive gamers, I guess that's settled.

The only thing wrong was that you had to buy a whole new Wiimote or accessory to play the damn game.
The MotionPlus predated Skyward Sword by over two years. The Remote Plus predated Skyward Sword by one year. You had the option to buy one bundled with Skyward Sword. This is a poor excuse to place more blame on motion control, which isn't even at fault here as you're blaming the peripheral, not the controls.

That and it forced you to pretty much sit upright.
OH THE HUMANITY!!!

Are you serious?

Just because it wasn't their intention doesn't mean it isn't anti-gamer.
"Anti-gamer" is overly hyperbolic.

Digital gaming is growing and shipping consoles with a 8gb HD is beyond laughable.
It is fortunate, then, that another capacity also shipped at launch, and even more fortunate that for the cost of the 8 GB and a decent external you'd pay about what one of the higher-end consoles co

Just because it can do something doesn't mean it's useful.
No. The fact that it's useful means it's useful.

I can throw dead batteries at my enemies but they aren't exactly the best thing to use again my opponent.
This is not a comparison.

The fact is, the Tablet control has yet to be used to any degree of relevance for the most part.
No, that's a fact to you, the latest in a growing line of your opinions you've tried to pass off as, and I quote, "objective fact".
 

Jb

Tsun in the streets
The MotionPlus predated Skyward Sword by over two years. The Remote Plus predated Skyward Sword by one year. You had the option to buy one bundled with Skyward Sword. This is a poor excuse to place more blame on motion control, which isn't even at fault here as you're blaming the peripheral, not the controls.
They go hand in hand. Motion control sucks, and they needed to make a whole new device to make it suck less. Also that SS was the only relevant game that required it.

OH THE HUMANITY!!!

Are you serious?
Are you serious? Bro, video gaming is lazy hobby. Making me swing my arm in an upright postion is not what anyone wants to do. I mean, we could go outside for that.

It is fortunate, then, that another capacity also shipped at launch, and even more fortunate that for the cost of the 8 GB and a decent external you'd pay about what one of the higher-end consoles co
The 32gb is even worse. It implies that could actually have a decent amount of content on your system when in reality you can't.

No. The fact that it's useful means it's useful.
Are you purposely trying to dodge the fact that nearly every single gaming outlet points out the gamepad is extremely underutilized not useful in most practical situations.

No, that's a fact to you, the latest in a growing line of your opinions you've tried to pass off as, and I quote, "objective fact".
The notion that you think is useful is actually fact to you. You're in the minority mate.
 
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