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November 11th: PM2019 132 - The Finals IV: Partner

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DuquÊ?

Too lazy to pick a pic
People talk about how Ash needs hax to win this, but I think Leon needed it to keep things fairly even. Without Lucario getting paralyzed, it would have killed half of Leon's team tbh. Leon would have been forced to drag Charizard out earlier to deal with it.
Leon's main tactic was mainly wear Ash's team off. I don't believe lucario surviving to dragapult would make difference.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
Excuse me while I laugh at one corner, the only way the entire anime ends is when the Pokémon company announced that they wont be producing anymore game ( not gonna happen when it a literal cash cow) and announce that it will be the last Pokémon anime to be produce and aired or for some reason the company go under and the whole franchise ends. IT NOT GOING TO END before the game.
There is a counter argument to that, though. Actually, there are a few.

The main counter argument is that they don't need to air a weekly anime anymore. They can still create animated content, but they can deliver it directly to audiences now without having to worry about TV Networks. Pokemon has been been doing a lot more of this with Twilight Wings, Hisuian Snow, and PokeToons.

And one of the benefits of this is that they can release these videos in English and Japanese at the same time to reach a larger audience. This also ties in better with the ways the games are released now. One drawback of the current anime is that it no longer fits how Pokemon games are released. The delay for Western audiences worked when games were released in Japan first, but that changed with Gen 6.

As I said before, prove me wrong JN132.
The series isn't ending JN132.
 

DayQuil95

Well-Known Member
One thing I can assure you is, there's no way Pikachu vs Charizard is the only battle happening in this episode.
Would be weird as hell to have Leon be left with a fully-healthy Cinderace without Ash having ever managed to overcome Libero.
 

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
Would be weird as hell to have Leon be left with a fully-healthy Cinderace without Ash having ever managed to overcome Libero.

Fair point actually. Weird to just dangle Libero like that, force a return inside 90 seconds and then essentially shelve it.
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
They could just have someone be stronger than Satoshi. Have Satoshi lose in the first episode of a new region to be reminded that there is always someone stronger and being the best means constant dedication to improving. That then gives Satoshi the quest to ask himself WHY he wants to be the best or if he just wants to improve, win, lose or draw.
This is just terrible writing. Leon is not your average run-of-the-mill final boss. He's the guy stronger than literally every powerful trainer in the franchise who was previously shown to be leagues ahead of Ash.

Once Ash overcomes that level; immediately have him lose to someone else is just absurd writing. I mean, the PWC is a tournament on the World Scale.

Leon has years of experience compared to Ash. If he wins, that's just not a clean win in my opinion, because how was Ash ever supposed to catch up in terms of battling experience to someone who was 5-10 years older?

People are just desperately trying any way they can think to discredit Ash's victory if he does win here.
The age argument doesn't make sense. Cynthia, Steven & Lance definitely seem older than Leon but the latter is still stronger than all of them. With age comes experience but there's no reason why young talent can't surpass someone with more experience.
From a real-world perspective; take Magnus Carlsen's previous achievements for example.
 

Yuugis Black Magician

Namaikina Imouto
This is just terrible writing. Leon is not your average run-of-the-mill final boss. He's the guy stronger than literally every powerful trainer in the franchise who was previously shown to be leagues ahead of Ash.

Once Ash overcomes that level; immediately have him lose to someone else is just absurd writing. I mean, the PWC is a tournament on the World Scale.


The age argument doesn't make sense. Cynthia, Steven & Lance definitely seem older than Leon but the latter is still stronger than all of them. With age comes experience but there's no reason why young talent can't surpass someone with more experience.
From a real-world perspective; take Magnus Carlsen's previous achievements for example.

They could give Satoshi a few title defenses that he wins but ultimately you can't keep that going forever because having Satoshi being completely unmatched and dominant in his battles as the best in the world is not good entertainment.
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
They could give Satoshi a few title defenses that he wins but ultimately you can't keep that going forever because having Satoshi being completely unmatched and dominant in his battles as the best in the world is not good entertainment.
Why not. Why should Ash keep pursuing strength from scratch over and over?
Ash is literally potentially beating the undefeated Champion and your argument is Ash should be defeated again after a few matches lol?


They could have him focus on multiple other things while retaining his strongest title. They could introduce another protagonist who satisfies the progression in Strength criteria which Ash has been doing for the last 20 years.
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
Actually even if both Ash and Leon didn’t get a 2nd Dynamax Charge so that can Gigantamax for a 2nd time Ash and Pikachu could still beat both Leon’s Charizard and his Cinderace as it doesn’t look Pikachu is in that bad of shape and the remaining part of its battle with Charizard will probably just ge in their base stage.


Now as to how Pikachu can beat Cinderace that can change its type it’s actually not that hard considering Ash and Pikachu now know what they are up against.


For instance Pikachu can use its speed to dodge Scorching Sand and hit Cinderace with a Iron Tail and/or Quick Attack and then when Cinderace eventually hits Pikachu with Iron Head it could trigger Pikachu’s ability static Paralyzing it.

After this as the battle goes on Cinderace could try to use High Jump Kick on Pikachu but Pikachu dodges which causes Cinderace to take damage and then Pikachu follows up with a Thunderbolt.

Cinderce tries to counter this by using Scorching Sands to switch to a Ground type but it’s paralysis stop it from being able to do so causing it to be hit by Thunderbolt and take damage.


I mean heck when you really look at it Cinderace is very likely a glass cannon in that although it is extremely strong and fast it doesn’t have good defense.

As for Leon’s Charizard since it’s pretty much stuck in its base form and as Pikachu likely has gotten a lot stronger since the last time they fought, although Charizard will likely be able to put up a fight Pikachu could be able to beat it.


Really the only reason why Pikachu is going to Gigantamax here is to counter G-Max Cinderace.
I was thinking Iron tail could be used to send Scorching Sand right back to Cinderance, and since it is taking on both a fire and electric typing, it would be 4x super effective. They could easily have it OHKO since Iron Tail could send it back twice as fast.
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
I was thinking Iron tail could be used to send Scorching Sand right back to Cinderance, and since it is taking on both a fire and electric typing, it would be 4x super effective. They could easily have it OHKO since Iron Tail could send it back twice as fast.
I was thinking something like this, or possibly even a well timed HJK dodge into a Thunderbolt. It would be nice to see Ash use Libero against Cinderace in some way, but none of its types are weak to Pikachu.
 

Ignition

World's biggest Incineroar stan
I'm assuming Pikachu will slow down Ciderace with some combination of Max Strike (lowers Speed), GMax Volt Crash (always paralyzes), Static, & Electroweb. Maybe Max Steelspike for increased Defense against Charizard as well.
 

BlueDragonfangirl

Well-Known Member
Pikachu will get back up and will get more flashbacks only this time of Ash and Pikachu, only better than those fake Pikachu good bye episodes.
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
I was thinking something like this, or possibly even a well timed HJK dodge into a Thunderbolt. It would be nice to see Ash use Libero against Cinderace in some way, but none of its types are weak to Pikachu.
Then both would be clutch! Have Cinderace miss a critical HJK and damage itself
 

Yuugis Black Magician

Namaikina Imouto
Why not. Why should Ash keep pursuing strength from scratch over and over?
Ash is literally potentially beating the undefeated Champion and your argument is Ash should be defeated again after a few matches lol?


They could have him focus on multiple other things while retaining his strongest title. They could introduce another protagonist who satisfies the progression in Strength criteria which Ash has been doing for the last 20 years.

It's hardly scratch to have someone defeat you in a battle, especially after you defeat someone who has never been defeated before. If Dande can lose, Satoshi can lose. Even Federer needed his Nadal and Murray, after all.
 
Almost just like Ash at the end of DP and beginning of BW, which I think will happen again lol
Difference is Goku didn't stupidly replace his experience for a new one.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
They could have his first loss in the next series against Geeta. The same way he finally lost to Leon after a particularly long win streak in Alola
Goku spent 6 story arcs and 195 chapters to become the strongest in the world, only to get oneshot in the stomach two chapters later.
And by his long lost big brother no less.
 
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