• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

November 11th: Streaming Live! The Satoshi VS Dande Support Special

AJ97

Well-Known Member
I agree for the most part, but it has been implied throughout the series that Pikachu would be EVEN stronger as a Raichu, but as you said, that doesn't have to be the case necessarily since Ash probably has the best Pikachu that exists lol.
Thanks for this which is exactly what I was saying but that guy was ignoring in favor of some weird headcanon he insisted I had.

This point is only mentioned by those who think "Rationally" just like the previous poster. This concept simply doesn't apply in the anime.
One noteworthy person who tells Ash this is Paul; one of the most rational trainers in the series.

Yes, it is rational to assume that an evolved Pokemon will always be stronger than a Pre-evolution. It is also rational to assume that a Pikachu with 2 Electric attacks + Quick Attack + Iron Tail would have no chance against a Gastrodon. Same goes for several other scenarios of Ash's battles where he's always used a very irrational matchup and won.

The simple point is; the previous commenter keeps spewing some rational construct from the games and is applying it to the anime which makes no sense.
The anime simply has no rules. The writers can scale Pokemon to be however strong they want. Saying every Pokemon has a limit in terms of strength is completely false.

Lets say Ash's Pikachu evolves to Raichu. The writers could easily create some concept saying that as Pikachu, it is able to tap into 100% of it's innate power and be much stronger however as a Raichu; it can only tap into 70% of its power so it will never be stronger.
I mean yes, all this seems bs when you consider the games and look at it from a rational Lens. However, the anime has always pulled bs like this.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I'm not sure what in the actual episode will even make it feel believable. Can you think of any believable scenario that doesn't come off as Ash being given a cheap assist? I sure can't.

Ash leading at the start has no bearing on the current scenario. Pikachu was definitely worn out even before Charizard emerged, and was further being drained of stamina and endurance against the lizard. I'm not sure how you got that it's not damaged, one can be tuckered merely by over-exertion, not even counting damaged received.

Against Cynthia, you had that excuse the Garchomp had taken prior damage and the only thing Togekiss did was even the odds by wearing down a healthy Lucario. Definitely not the same scenario this time.
Entering a bit of a fanficky situation here:

I can see Leon switching Charizard out to gigantamax Cinderace after seeing his band has recharged, and Pikachu gigantamaxes too. The trick is to make sure Pikachu doesn't take any hits from Cinderace. It can launch a G-Max Pyro Ball that Ash nullifies with G Max Volt Crash. It could then try to pull of a Dai attack and Ash defend with a Max guard, before trying another H max Fireball that Ash reflects back to the Cinderace with G max Iron tail, damaging Cinderace as G max runs out. We then have Pikachu using its speed to avoid Cinderace, causing Hi-Jump-Kick damage and then I can see Ash managing to pull of a paralysis (hopefully with static) to take it down
Pikachu didn't take a single hit and has now gained more momentum
Charizard is brought out and Ash manages to land early hits through making optimal use of Pikachu's speed and dodging strats / Electro web to bring Charizard down, making it go blaze mode and fighting back and hurting Pikachu, leading to an all out on the edge final few clashes, that Pikachu wins.

This is a perfect reasonable victory for me. Ofc i don't see this exactly going down, I'm sure Cinderace will probably get some hits in and all, but remember this is Pikachu. If any mon deserves to be the strongest of Ash it's him, travelled throughout the world, trained and battled so much, is at PEAKachu power and demolished Mega Metagross and soundly handling Cynthia till it got destiny bonded. It's at his best, obviously some anime friendship moment and the taking damage but standing up moment stuff will happen, which is natural to build emotional stakes and have Pikachu pull through to win it for Ash and cement him as Ash's ultimate partner. I feel Pikachu has done enough to earn that without it feeling cheap or a DEM
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Entering a bit of a fanficky situation here:

I can see Leon switching Charizard out to gigantamax Cinderace after seeing his band has recharged, and Pikachu gigantamaxes too. The trick is to make sure Pikachu doesn't take any hits from Cinderace. It can launch a G-Max Pyro Ball that Ash nullifies with G Max Volt Crash. It could then try to pull of a Dai attack and Ash defend with a Max guard, before trying another H max Fireball that Ash reflects back to the Cinderace with G max Iron tail, damaging Cinderace as G max runs out. We then have Pikachu using its speed to avoid Cinderace, causing Hi-Jump-Kick damage and then I can see Ash managing to pull of a paralysis (hopefully with static) to take it down
Pikachu didn't take a single hit and has now gained more momentum
Charizard is brought out and Ash manages to land early hits through making optimal use of Pikachu's speed and dodging strats / Electro web to bring Charizard down, making it go blaze mode and fighting back and hurting Pikachu, leading to an all out on the edge final few clashes, that Pikachu wins.

This is a perfect reasonable victory for me. Ofc i don't see this exactly going down, I'm sure Cinderace will probably get some hits in and all, but remember this is Pikachu. If any mon deserves to be the strongest of Ash it's him, travelled throughout the world, trained and battled so much, is at PEAKachu power and demolished Mega Metagross and soundly handling Cynthia till it got destiny bonded. It's at his best, obviously some anime friendship moment and the taking damage but standing up moment stuff will happen, which is natural to build emotional stakes and have Pikachu pull through to win it for Ash and cement him as Ash's ultimate partner. I feel Pikachu has done enough to earn that without it feeling cheap or a DEM
May this post be prophetic.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
Entering a bit of a fanficky situation here:

I can see Leon switching Charizard out to gigantamax Cinderace after seeing his band has recharged, and Pikachu gigantamaxes too. The trick is to make sure Pikachu doesn't take any hits from Cinderace. It can launch a G-Max Pyro Ball that Ash nullifies with G Max Volt Crash. It could then try to pull of a Dai attack and Ash defend with a Max guard, before trying another H max Fireball that Ash reflects back to the Cinderace with G max Iron tail, damaging Cinderace as G max runs out. We then have Pikachu using its speed to avoid Cinderace, causing Hi-Jump-Kick damage and then I can see Ash managing to pull of a paralysis (hopefully with static) to take it down
Pikachu didn't take a single hit and has now gained more momentum
Charizard is brought out and Ash manages to land early hits through making optimal use of Pikachu's speed and dodging strats / Electro web to bring Charizard down, making it go blaze mode and fighting back and hurting Pikachu, leading to an all out on the edge final few clashes, that Pikachu wins.

This is a perfect reasonable victory for me. Ofc i don't see this exactly going down, I'm sure Cinderace will probably get some hits in and all, but remember this is Pikachu. If any mon deserves to be the strongest of Ash it's him, travelled throughout the world, trained and battled so much, is at PEAKachu power and demolished Mega Metagross and soundly handling Cynthia till it got destiny bonded. It's at his best, obviously some anime friendship moment and the taking damage but standing up moment stuff will happen, which is natural to build emotional stakes and have Pikachu pull through to win it for Ash and cement him as Ash's ultimate partner. I feel Pikachu has done enough to earn that without it feeling cheap or a DEM
Pikachu can't use Max Guard. You need a status move to use it and all of its attacks are offensive.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
Doesn't Electroweb work as a Max Guard? Damn my bad then, Ig I'll change it to Pikachu using Max Strike to counter back Cinderace's Dai attack, keep everything else the same
No you're good I still get mixed up on some of Dynamax's mechnaics myself despite it being around for 3 years lmao. Unfortunately not though. Pretty much any move that doesn't do direct damage turns into Max Guard with a few special cases. Electroweb would just be a weaker GMax Volt Crash. At the very least Max Strike has the same affect as it with lowering Speed.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
No you're good I still get mixed up on some of Dynamax's mechnaics myself despite it being around for 3 years lmao. Unfortunately not though. Pretty much any move that doesn't do direct damage turns into Max Guard with a few special cases. Electroweb would just be a weaker GMax Volt Crash. At the very least Max Strike has the same affect as it with lowering Speed.
Yeah Max Strike countering Cinderace's Max Knuckle in my above fanfic scenario as a replacement for Max guard defending against Max Knuckle still works coz then since Pikachu countered it he technically still didn't take damage and by lowering it's speed, him countering the fireball with a max Iron tail (forgot the steel max move lol) would make sense since the fireball would be a bit slower.
 

Ignition

We are so back Zygardebros
Yeah Max Strike countering Cinderace's Max Knuckle in my above fanfic scenario as a replacement for Max guard defending against Max Knuckle still works coz then since Pikachu countered it he technically still didn't take damage and by lowering it's speed, him countering the fireball with a max Iron tail (forgot the steel max move lol) would make sense since the fireball would be a bit slower.
Max Steelspike is an icon how dare you forget it

Joking aside that does sound like a likely outcome. Could see some parallel to Pikachu fighting Go's Cinderace as a Scorbunny in Wyndon when they first met.
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
Entering a bit of a fanficky situation here:

I can see Leon switching Charizard out to gigantamax Cinderace after seeing his band has recharged, and Pikachu gigantamaxes too. The trick is to make sure Pikachu doesn't take any hits from Cinderace. It can launch a G-Max Pyro Ball that Ash nullifies with G Max Volt Crash. It could then try to pull of a Dai attack and Ash defend with a Max guard, before trying another H max Fireball that Ash reflects back to the Cinderace with G max Iron tail, damaging Cinderace as G max runs out. We then have Pikachu using its speed to avoid Cinderace, causing Hi-Jump-Kick damage and then I can see Ash managing to pull of a paralysis (hopefully with static) to take it down
Pikachu didn't take a single hit and has now gained more momentum
Charizard is brought out and Ash manages to land early hits through making optimal use of Pikachu's speed and dodging strats / Electro web to bring Charizard down, making it go blaze mode and fighting back and hurting Pikachu, leading to an all out on the edge final few clashes, that Pikachu wins.

This is a perfect reasonable victory for me. Ofc i don't see this exactly going down, I'm sure Cinderace will probably get some hits in and all, but remember this is Pikachu. If any mon deserves to be the strongest of Ash it's him, travelled throughout the world, trained and battled so much, is at PEAKachu power and demolished Mega Metagross and soundly handling Cynthia till it got destiny bonded. It's at his best, obviously some anime friendship moment and the taking damage but standing up moment stuff will happen, which is natural to build emotional stakes and have Pikachu pull through to win it for Ash and cement him as Ash's ultimate partner. I feel Pikachu has done enough to earn that without it feeling cheap or a DEM
Considering there's so much emphasis on Libero Cinderace and Leon having the perfect counter against Pikachu; does it really make sense to see him G-Max Cinderace?

Also, since we now know that Goh's going to have a Project Mew Focus; there is a potential chance he might be the one who G-Maxes Cinderace in a raid battle?

Either way, I still think Charizard will be the one to G-Max again as we didn't see much of it in the last battle.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Max Steelspike is an icon how dare you forget it

Joking aside that does sound like a likely outcome. Could see some parallel to Pikachu fighting Go's Cinderace as a Scorbunny in Wyndon when they first met.
MAX STEELSPIKE! Honestly how did I forget it lol, my mind kept going to Corkscrew Crash and i was like nah buddy that's the Z move.
Also I definitely see Cinderace being some sort of Goh parallel, esp as the title is "partner" and all
Considering there's so much emphasis on Libero Cinderace and Leon having the perfect counter against Pikachu; does it really make sense to see him G-Max Cinderace?

Also, since we now know that Goh's going to have a Project Mew Focus; there is a potential chance he might be the one who G-Maxes Cinderace in a raid battle?

Either way, I still think Charizard will be the one to G-Max again as we didn't see much of it in the last battle.
That's why I still have base cinderace and Pikachu Duke it out after the g max gets over. I do agree though that Goh gigantamaxing Cinderace would have been better
Im not too sure about Charizard gigantamaxing tbh, not sure whether I would enjoy it or not
 
Top