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Now that M8 is revealed, how powerful are these trainers?

JustAStatistic

JustAStatistic

Super Casual Trainer
Above E4: Tobias, Lysandre

Upper E4: JN Gary, DP Paul, Kukui, Gladion, Marnie, Piers, Bea, Allister, Opal

Lower E4: OS Gary, Drayden, Lusamine, Brock

Below E4: Giovanni, Rose
 
SerGoldenhandtheJust

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Lysandre is dead so

I'd say
1) Tobias
2) Paul/Kukui
3) Paul Kukui
4) Gladion
5) Gary
6) Bea
7) Brock
8) Marnie
9) Piers
10) Drayden
11) Giovanni
12) Lusamine
13) Rose
14) Opal
15) Allister
 
janejane6178

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Above E4: Tobias, Lysandre

Upper E4: JN Gary, DP Paul, Gladion, Marnie, Piers, Bea, Allister, Opal

Lower E4: OS Gary, Drayden, Lusamine, Brock, Giovanni, Rose

Below GYM leaders: Kuku man
 
DayQuil95

DayQuil95

Well-Known Member
Important Notes:
  1. The characters in the tiers aren't ordered, so just because Paul is ahead of Tobias, it doesn't mean I believe Paul is stronger than what a current Tobias would be shown to be.
  2. I'm assuming that older characters have leveled up to how strong they would be in the current show, having already had their fair share of training and experiences, similar to Ash.
  3. Some characters here are based on the portrayal of how the anime writers would showcase them in a match against Ash throughout Journeys based on how they did with other characters like Volkner and Bea were shown to be.

Champion:
  • Paul - Would only make sense given he's supposed to be Ash's equal constantly, and they're fighting in a seemingly equal battle in the special preview. I just can't picture someone with his growing level of strength, immense potential, and excellent strategies to lose to any Ultra Class opponent that Ash has fought. If he were to be in the Masters 8, I could see him about equal to either Alain or Iris, but still managing to give the upper champions a lot of trouble, and even beating some.
  • Tobias - Assuming he continued training at the same rate as Ash and Paul, he should be at least Champion level by now, since he already seemed Elite Four-level when we last saw him. If he were to be in the Masters 8, I could see him at about the same level as Steven and even Cynthia, assuming he has acquired Gimmicks and continued to train his already immensely powerful Latios and Darkrai.

Upper Elite Four:
  • Giovanni - Not only would it make sense thematically, given one of his Elite Grunts managed to beat Kukui's Braviary, and Giovanni was always seen as a trainer on the upper spectrum of strength in all of his appearances, namely Origins and Adventures. Plus if Ash is ever supposed to be done with Team Rocket once and for all in the show, which I assume he is, then Giovanni would have to be somewhat of a growing threat, even if just in a tactical way rather than strength-based.
  • Kukui - I don't think he's quite on the level of champions, but definitely is close enough to at least pull something like Flint did against Cynthia, with him beating a lot of members of a champion, but ultimately losing to the Ace. And it would also make sense in a progressive sense for Ash to have beaten someone on the upper scale of Elite Fours by Alola, since he's supposed to be fighting Champions now in Journeys, and had lost to Alain in XYZ.
  • Lysandre - Took Malva, Alain, and Ash to take him out, if this man's not Upper Elite Four, then he's at the very least Mid Elite Four, with his Mega Gyarados quite possibly being Champion Level or on a level of its own being in-between Elite Four and Champion. He's long been surpassed by Ash and Alain, but if he were to still live, he would for sure still be enough of a threat to rank himself in the upper spectrum of Ultra Class, only really losing to Masters 8 members.

Mid Elite Four:
  • Gary - Not only has he been a trainer for as long as Ash and Paul, but he has also continued strengthening his team even after retiring as a main battler, just because he's a researcher doesn't mean he's somewhat weak or has grown stagnant, remember that Kukui is also a researcher. Gary has also shown to still have sharp skills in the battle against Moltres, and even though he lost, legendaries were still shown to be on the Elite Four spectrum of strength quite a few times throughout the anime, even wild ones that aren't Box Legendaries like the Kanto trio.
  • Gladion - Not only is he really skilled as a trainer, but also shows a desire to constantly grow stronger, so while I personally believe Ash has always been ahead of him in terms of skill and power, only really being his relative when limiting himself by using a newly-evolved Melmetal with any experience, Pikachu who was still not at his peak, and Lycanroc who had to quickly catch-up to Gladion's when they first fought with it being a Rockruff, I still believe that Gladion could have a nicely fought battle against Gary, but would ultimately lose to the likes of Paul, Ash, and Alain if they ever were to go all-out.
  • Bea - She has been portrayed as such by the way Volkner was implied to be very close to Elite Four, and how much trouble her 3v3 gave to Ash's Pikachu and even Mega Lucario. I honestly believe that she's only Mid Elite Four with Gigantamax Machamp, while without it she only gets to Low Elite Four, which's still impressive, but not quite up there in relation to the others. I personally believe that Gary and Gladion are still ahead of her, but not by much.

Low Elite Four:
  • Marnie - I don't believe she was as strong as Bea from what we were shown, and ranking alone shouldn't be taken into consideration for how strong specific characters are, as Marnie could have simply gotten lucky with the matchups in the Ultra Class, or Bea and Volkner simply were still not that long in the Ultra Class to advance as much. Point is, I believe that she's somewhere between Low Elite Four and Mid Elite Four, but that Bea would ultimately beat her in a fight from not only having shown many superior levels of skill, but also superior raw strength from what we were shown.
  • Piers - Piers should be at least as strong as Marnie, if not stronger than her if he's supposed to be almost anything like his game version, who's champion level from his fight with Raihan, but given how drastic the differences between anime and games are, we shouldn't take that into consideration. Still, I think they would portray him as being relative to Marnie if he were to ever fight in the anime, but still not as strong as the Masters 8, even the lower spectrum of it like Raihan.
  • Drayden - Just from what we were led to believe from his appearances and figure, he should be in the low spectrum of the Elite Four tier, not being able to beat even some of the weakest Elite Four members, but still being capable of giving them some trouble in battle. I honestly think that his mentor role to Iris has more to do with his knowledge of dragons rather than sheer strength, given the ideal Dragon Master figure would be Lance from all things we were given to believe on what the title is.

Upper Gym Leader:
  • Brock - He should be at least this level, I could see him fighting Wulfric in a good fight, but still not quite coming up on top. He fought Kiawe in an excellent battle back in SM, but even then, Kiawe was still not on his top game, and Turtonator still had a lot to go through before getting to his peak of beating Gladion's Lycanroc. But yeah, Brock's still not on the spectrum of Elite Four, but at least strong enough to school trainers that are going through Gyms and aren't as experienced as Ash yet.
  • Opal - Her battle with Ash had her being quite skilled, and given she's shown as that typical old experienced anime character that looks frail but actually turns out to be quite the monster in combat if she were ever to face someone, I'd say she should be about equal to Brock in terms of strength, not quite up there with even Drayden, but still able to school some of the younger trainers and Gym Leaders out there.

Mid Gym Leader:
  • Rose - Managed to give trouble to Ash's Pikachu and Riolu, but once Riolu evolved into Lucario, his team got one shot by him. Him managing to match up to Pikachu is also nothing to make a big deal of, given Pikachu was fighting relative to Riolu, and that little mouse is easily the most inconsistent Pokémon in the franchise.
  • Lusamine - Without Nihilego boost, she should be decently strong, but not on the same level as the upper characters from superior tiers, maybe Rose, not sure about this. She seems to be kind of a wildcard in terms of where she could be ranked, but either Mid or Upper Gym Leader tier in the absolute best scenario where she's a very skilled trainer with powerful mons secretly.
  • Allister - Doesn't seem like he would be much of a battler in the anime, given he's very shy I could see him as a starter Gym Leader who has a lot of potentials to improve his skill and strength in battle but doesn't train as much. This is assuming he's even an active battler in the anime since we've never seen any of his Pokémon, let alone his battle, so this is the biggest assumption here, basing it off of how the other Galar Gym Leaders were portrayed.
 
B

BlueDragonfangirl

Well-Known Member
I’d put Tobias above the lot of them, which is another reason why I’m disappointed why he’s not in masters 8. Other than the fact that I want Ash to get his revenge.

I’d put Paul on equal terms with Ash, I bet he got better since the loss against Ash, he’s the same type who wants to get stronger too.

UGJ! I wish these two we’re in this thing.
 
JustAStatistic

JustAStatistic

Super Casual Trainer
Leonhart said:
I'm actually surprised that Takuto didn't make the Top 8 despite his achievements in the Shinou region [sweeping all eight Gyms with Darkrai and winning the regional League tournament]. I was sure he would be ranked above Alan and maybe even above Carnet.
Click to expand...
Meta, we all know Tobias was just a plot device, so the writers definitely don't want to bring him back.

In-universe, he's probably not participating in the PWC. I doubt he even bothered challenging the Sinnoh E4 tbh. He probably grabbed his trophy and went off to find more legendary/mythical Pokémon.
 
Trillion

Trillion

Well-Known Member
action replay
lysandre
paul
kukui
gladion
brock
gary
lusamine's pokemon
giovanni
bea
rose

i don't remember drayden's battle so i left it out
hard to gauge marnie since it was one vs one
i don't remember piers or allister ever battling at all?
don't remember lusamine battling either. but i ranked her based on what we saw of her pokemon, although they weren't under her command at the time from what i recall
opal's battle was a gag
 
Johtoo

Johtoo

Well-Known Member
It's my headcanon that Gary will always be relative to Ash even if he stops competing in official battles.
If Ash and Gary fought I see it going all the way to the very last pokemon for Ash to come out victorious.
 
Xuxuba

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
  • Gary (above gym leaders, bellow E4)
  • Paul (probably E4 level by now)
  • Prof. Kukui (above gym leaders, bellow E4)
  • Drayden (8th gym leader level obvs)
  • Tobias (E4 ~ Champion level)
  • Gladion (above gym leaders, bellow E4)
  • Marnie (above gym leaders, bellow E4)
  • Piers (gym leader level)
  • Bea (above gym leader, bellow E4, at least in the anime)
  • Allister (gym leader level)
  • Opal (gym leader level)
  • Lusamine (gym leader level)
  • Lysandre (E4 level)
  • Giovanni (E4 level)
  • Rose (above gym leaders, bellow E4)
  • Brock (above gym leaders, bellow E4)
 
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