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Obama Vs. Romney: 2012 US Election

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Floette, Sep 5, 2012.


Do you support Barack Obama or Mitt Romney?

  1. Mitt Romney

    86 vote(s)
  2. Barack Obama

    230 vote(s)
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  1. Silver Soul

    Silver Soul Well-Known Member

    Pardon me, but isn't the filibuster supposed to be used for an extended debate instead of just threatening for a filibuster? There will be ways in reforming the filibuster without getting into the nuclear option. But you can't deny that the filibuster has been abused by Senate Republicans for the last 4 years.

    Well as of now, you ought to be worrying about what's going on in the Republican Party concerning the in-fighting due to the results of this election.
  2. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    And I seem to remember the filibuster abused by the Senate Democrats before that but lets look at what Harry Reid called the Filibuster in 2005 when Republicans were wrongly looking to change it.

    "Jefferson asked Washington what is the purpose of the Senate?
    Washington responded with a question of his own, “Why did you pour that coffee into your saucer?” “To cool it,” Jefferson replied. To which Washington said; “Even so, we pour legislation into the senatorial saucer to cool it.”

    And this is exactly what the filibuster does. It encourages moderation and consensus. It gives voice to the minority, so that cooler heads may prevail.

    It also separates us from the House of Representatives – where the majority rules. And it is very much in keeping with the spirit of the government established by the Framers of our Constitution: Limited Government...Separation of Powers...Checks and Balances.

    Mr. President, the filibuster is a critical tool in keeping the majority in check. This central fact has been acknowledged and even praised by Senators from both parties.


    Mr. President, the right to extended debate is never more important than when one party controls Congress and the White House. In these cases, the filibuster serves as a check on power and preserves our limited government.

    Right now, the only check on President Bush is the Democrats ability to voice their concern in the Senate. If Republicans rollback our rights in this Chamber, there will be no check on their power. The radical, right wing will be free to pursue any agenda they want. And not just on judges. Their power will be unchecked on Supreme Court nominees…the President’s nominees in general…and legislation like Social Security privatization."


    Harry Reid and the Democrats control the White House, and in times past controlled all of Congress. As he himself has said, the filibuster gives rights to the minority to keep the majority from ramming through legislation. Democrats wishing to change it are merely engaging in their own party's suicide.

    Yes.. because infighting in the Democratic party after 2004 prevented them from making major gains in 2006, just as infighting in the Republican party in 2008 prevented them from making major gains in 2010... oh wait.
  3. ebilly99

    ebilly99 Americanreigon champ

    In 2006/2007 there were more than 60 filibusters. In 2008/2009 for that number doubled to 140 a year. It sure looks like the Republicans are playing fair ;) but then again lets not force the GOP to use logic (Which we all know has a liberal Bias). That would be unfair
  4. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    I could go and point out how radical the Democrats were when they got full power in 2008/2009 but then again like you said, using logic isn't playing fair is it? Either way I still have to point out that no matter how much or little it is used, it does not take away from the facts and spirit of the argument. Oh wait! There is that ole logic again!
  5. ebilly99

    ebilly99 Americanreigon champ

    Oh Radical, I mean a health care plan is so bad. I mean we are like the last meaningful nation without it means nothing. Or the fact that we expect everyone to pay their fair taxes. 1 percent of the nation uses 80 percent of the tax code. How about the fact that Obama gunna take away our Guns. Oh that didn't happen either. Oh they want Gay marriage, You know for equality. And yeah more people are on disability and medicaid. Maybe that is cause the Baby Boomers are retiring??? What exactly have the Radical dem's been doing for four years. Oh that's right that south of the border gun problem.... That no one cares about. Or perhapes the Libian emabasy attack, where a few people got killed. (Unlike the thousands of soldiers that died for Bush's war.)What exactly are we talking about.
  6. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    Do you want to go down some of the problems faced by those other nations that have it? Or the fact that so much was rammed through so fast practically no one, including Congress ( Who had to pass subsequent bills just to keep their own health care )? Oh wait there is that logic!

    "There's two different issues. Should you raise taxes on anybody right today -- rich or poor or middle class? No, because there's no growth in the economy."

    Bill Clinton 2011

    "First of all, he’s right. Normally, you don’t raise taxes in a recession, which is why we haven’t and why we’ve instead cut taxes. So I guess what I’d say to Scott is – his economics are right. You don’t raise taxes in a recession."

    Obama 2009

    Neither of those were presented before Congress, so why do they deserve mentioning when it comes to the Filibuster? Oh wait! There is that logic thing again!

    Again what does that have to do with what we are talking about?

    We can go through the failed Stimulus that did not produce the growth that equaled the cost, we can go through the pathetic health care bill which has caused all sorts of problems. Or lets talk about the many radical left wing bills that were passed by the House but stopped in the Senate how about Cap and Trade for example?
  7. ebilly99

    ebilly99 Americanreigon champ

    I love this "the problems of other nations " Thing. I do believe Canada's Dollar is strong right now. And if you ask any canadian of the middle class if they like there health care.
    So do you want jobs or a balanced budget. Here is some news, you can't have both. If you raise taxes one cent millions of jobs will be lost. If you cut the safty net then millions of people die.
    There needs to be filibuster reform, there is a difference between a balance and taking advantage.
    The stimulse was Bush's plan, A republican, who Obama agreed to. A health care plan that was skinned alive by the tea party. Or cap and trade so bad that it want's to invest in new technology, Tech that China will gladly beat us to. Yeah so Radical.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  8. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    What does the strength of the Canadian dollar have to do with their medical system or are you engaging another red herring? As for if they like their health care system, if you ask a middle class family in the U.S. the same thing I am sure they would give the same answer, the revolt in 2010 should have proven that. People like what they know and are scared of change.

    Actually you can, you can roll back on spending and engage in reforms that increase jobs, the increased income coming in from those jobs and from the less spending will balance the budget.

    And if we do not reform the safety net it will cease to exist in a few decades.

    One person's balance is another's taking advantage. I do wonder if you would be so gung ho about it, if it were the Republicans poised to reform the filibuster in the Senate, giving the majority greater control to enact their view. Because you have to remember the reform that happens now, will be allowed when the Republicans retake power. But then again I am merely using that dastardly Liberal logic.

    Show me where Bush suggested the exact plan that was passed by Congress? Exact quote and date.


    You do realize Cap and Trade punishes the middle and lower class the most right? Some estimates putting it at a extra tax of upward of 3,000 dollars on families. Should such a thing REALLY be done during a recession? Oh wait there is that logic again!
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  9. ebilly99

    ebilly99 Americanreigon champ

    The strength of their dollar shows that they still have a strong economy in this economic downturn. While there debt may be high, there unemployment is low. How is it a bad thing
    Government can not create jobs. They can make jobs more desired (Better roads, schools,) or cheaper (Lower taxes)
    Exactly reform not slash it to nothing. How about we add to the age of ssi (Like make it 74 before you get it) and lower medical cost by having everyone have insurance.
    Yes Filibuster is being taken advantage of. As for real Republicans, I would love to have a real Gop'er in the house instead of these wacky tea-party rejects. However the Right went wrong and now are so far up bull crap mountain it isn't even funny. Some of my favorite Presidents were Republicans. I loved Teddy, and how about Reagan (Who would be turning in his grave right now) Let's not forget Lincoln was a Grand Old Partier.
  10. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    Because Economic Strength =/= having a flawless health care system, again another red herring on your part.

    They can also prevent jobs through burdensome regulations like what Obama has been putting up.

    Neither of those fix the fundamental problems with it.

    Yes Reagan would be turning in his grave right now at seeing how radical of a President we have right now. Lets not forget what Reagan's views on socialized medicine and Liberalism was.

  11. ebilly99

    ebilly99 Americanreigon champ

    What problem exactly does Canadian health care have?
    And yet no regulation allowed the BP oil mess we are still cleaning up and paying for.
    Please explain the problem. By raising the age to that beyond the average age limit you elimintate a lot of users.
    And what did Reagan do that Obama hasn't.
    Here is what Obama has done. -Gave Amnesty to Illegal Immigrants
    -Negotiated with Terrorists
    -Raised Taxes on a Large Scale Four Times
    -Negotiated with the "Evil Empire" without Pre-conditions
    -Made a Decision to "Cut and Run"
  12. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    I would suggest watching this part of 20/20 to understand it.


    or this documentary by Steven Crowder


    Really? Are you saying there is NO regulation in oil drilling?

    Except people continue to grow older and older, you are merely kicking the can down the road especially as we have a rising number of elderly, and a smaller birth rate.

    Of which he was promised by the Democrats that we would close down the border to prevent more illegal immigration, how did that work out?

    Are you saying that Obama has NEVER negotiated with terrorists? That should surprise the Taliban

    And also massively lowered it even through a Democratic Congress.

    And? Soviet Union =/= Iran in status or power.

    And? Seriously this seems to be ANOTHER of your red herrings in terms of avoiding a true debate.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  13. ebilly99

    ebilly99 Americanreigon champ

    I am saying they were not good enough.
    You do realize that people die, don't you. If you make it so that it is rare to reach retirement age you end the problem.
    Pretty good, more mexicians are heading home than entering during obamas 4 years.
    Yeah I am sure it would, got a link?
    Kind of like how Obama allowed a massive tax loss for 4 years and now wants to raise it.
    Point, is evil evil or not.
    Why do you call them red Herrings? I have added things true, but I have not detered from the filibuster. A flawed system that has outlived it's purpose.
  14. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    How about the mere fact of human error?

    Are we going to hold off medicine to contribute to such death? If not you still have the problem that people are living longer and will continue to do so as we event new medicine. And again you have not answer the fact that with a lower birth rate you are growing into a Europe style problem of more takers than makers.

    And when the economy turns around they will come back.


    Not so, Reagan's raising in taxes was largely based on negotiations with a Democratic Congress to cut the budget, the same cannot be said here.

    Point is that one is a equal in strength and power and thus one does not lower itself to negotiate with another, same cannot be said about Iran.

    You are largely avoiding the subject, invoking health care in Canada and Reagan to avoid losing the argument. But again you have not addressed one thing I continue to say, are you willing to have the system taken away when Republicans have power in the Senate again? When they can pass through what ever Right Wing bill they want merely by their simple majority?
  15. ccangelopearl1362

    ccangelopearl1362 Well-Known Member

    Fox News Channel: US Egyptian Christians Fear for Faith under Morsi’s Islamist Agenda
    New York Times: Morsi’s Opponents Describe Abuse by President’s Allies

    Huh. I thought that this could happen as the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafis overran Egypt, and now, it appears to be happening. Coptic Christians have applied for asylum in greater numbers in the wake of the Islamic implosions throughout North Africa and the Middle East. The Coptic Orthodox Church is considered one of the oldest of its kind on Earth, dating back to… the early 450s, evidently. Supreme Guide Mohammed Badie, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, and Qatari Emir Hamad bin Khalifa Al-Thani could call for as much Sharia as they could find, and its totality would freeze those regions in its grip, consigning Tunisian President Moncef Marzouki, United Arab Emirates President Khalifa bin Zayed Al-Nahyan, and the like to oblivion, for all practical purposes. At least American President Barack Obama himself might have a few new maneuvers in pursuit of a path that thinks ahead of those aforementioned Islamists.:

    Foreign Policy: Aaron Zelin: Rally ‘Round the Jihadist

    The Al-Nusra Front is now a designated terror group, but the Syrian themselves remain focused on Bashar Assad’s military units as the true terrorizing force. The Muslim Brotherhood’s Syria branch has naturally condemned this designation, and the Al-Nusra Front itself is reportedly providing social services, which could very well persuade other Muslims across Syria to start backing it more actively. By this point in time, Assad has settled on causing as much destruction as he can, leaving any jihadists still there without much on which they could build a Sharia state. A different case study in failed statehood could already be happening to the west.:

    Reuters: Mali PM forced to quit as army strengthens grip

    Leave it to yours truly to acknowledge that Cheick Modibo Diarra was a complete unknown to me… until Captain Amadou Sanogo and the other soldiers behind that coup earlier this year forced him out of his job just yesterday. The prevalent perception is that a military junta has taken control of Mali, and France, the United Nations, and other entities could attempt to head off whatever Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb is planning. The North African Caliphate, the Islamic Federation of North Africa, or whatever title the Islamic terrorists use for their supposed fiefdom might not mean much else at this point, and they might not be the only area of the world shaping up to become an ungovernable morass.:

    Jamestown Foundation: Pavel Baev: Russia Steps and Slips into Foreign Policy Limbo

    Apparently, Russian President Vladimir Putin was considering that visit to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan as early as September, but when Putin criticized that Patriot missile battery deployment against Syria earlier this month, Erdogan gave him a brush-off. Putin didn’t fare any better later in his trip, where his Turkmen counterpart reportedly spent some of his country’s energy revenues on some opulent VIP palaces. In Eastern Europe, Ukraine is now at a similar level to Syria in perceptions of corruption, and Prime Minister Mykola Azarov tried to get a contract to build a liquefied natural gas terminal… only to discover that the entire deal was a fraud, resulting in the dissolution of the government, including the resignation of Azarov himself. For Russia’s part, it’s at a similar level to Iran and Honduras in corruption perception, which leaves Putin as “the focal point of mutually reinforcing” discontentment among the many factions now clamoring for control of Russia. Either he could crush these factions completely and end as the only figure of any import up there, or any of those factions could overrun him without being able to exert any influence over the others. The Obama administration’s notion of “resetting” the relationship between these two countries would become impractical, and any efforts to slow down the technological transition would end up just as deadlocked, which could even be why union operatives are mobilizing across America to make as much noise as possible leading up to Inauguration Day 2013.:

    Daily Caller: Neil Munro: White House declines to condemn union violence in Michigan
    National Review: Robert Costa: Inside the Boehner-Ryan Alliance

    The fact that these unions even consider the violence, such as an attack against one Steven Crowder, necessary could likely mean a loss of faith beforehand, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they found any sympathizers among socialists in, say, Egypt. It’ll be all that the Obama administration can do to prevent a meltdown, and Congressmen John Boehner and Paul Ryan could need to hunker down as time rolls on. Whereas Boehner’s been pressing Obama for various cuts, presumably related to health entitlements, Ryan has avoided any visibility on news networks. Their staffers regularly communicate with each other, so if Boehner’s planning anything about this fiscal cliff, then Ryan should know something about it. As for the rest of the country, well, depending on the level of resentment against those trends I’ve tracked, Boehner and Ryan could be out of time already.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  16. Silver Soul

    Silver Soul Well-Known Member

  17. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    So how do they explain this: GDP grew at an annual rate of just 1.7 percent in the six quarters before the 2003 tax cuts. In the six quarters following the tax cuts, the growth rate was 4.1 percent.


    The economy lost 267,000 jobs in the six quarters before the 2003 tax cuts. In the next six quarters, it added 307,000 jobs, followed by 5 million jobs in the next seven quarters.

  18. Byzantine

    Byzantine Well-Known Member

    .dotcom bubble, popping, BigLutz. Then recovering before the cuts.
  19. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    So the recovery started at the EXACT same time as the tax cuts what a freaking coincidence you would think one may have caused another!
  20. Silver Soul

    Silver Soul Well-Known Member

    Ah, Heritage Foundation. Didn't Jim DeMint resigned as Senator to become head of the conservative organization? On top of that, you choose to use a conservative source over a nonpartisan source.

    I'm trying to say that times are changing. There are even some Congressional Republicans I mentioned that are willing to take the option in raising taxes on the wealthy.
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