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Obesity, a growing problem?

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Avenger Angel

Warrior of Heaven
There are other issues besides exercise and diet that rarely get brought up in debates like these.

We live in a culture that associates food with love. If grandma bakes a batch of chocolate chip cookies and you turn it down in the act of trying to stay healthy, you look like you're rejecting the time, effort, and love that went into making them, and you're practically insulting her gift to you by insinuating it's not healthy for you. Same thing goes if you turn down a slice of wedding cake, or the cupcakes a coworker brought in one day, or you sit out of having ice cream with a bunch of friends. Turn these things down in the name of dieting and exercise, and you'll look like the bad guy.

The hardest thing about a diet? It's not self commitment. It's everyone else around you. It's the people that are having big burgers and steaks while you're trying to cope with a not-so-fulfilling salad. If you're by yourself, you can make your own habits much more easily than if you're trying to fight with those around you. You'll also have plenty of people who will say you don't have a problem, or you're not as fat as you think you are.

This article is actually extremely good at pointing some of these things about (the last one is kind of a joke)
http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-8-people-who-will-ruin-your-attempt-to-lose-weight/

I'm sure we all know somebody who matches at least a few of those numbers. My own mother, for instance, is a definite #6 and #4, and she often makes desserts for no reason or no special occasion whatsoever. And just yesterday, my family went out to eat for breakfast, lunch, AND dinner just so my dad could get free meals for Veteran's Day from all three places. I highly doubt that did my weight any favors.

It's these kinds of things that nail us when we're trying to diet. Family, friends, and the perception of food, dieting, and exercise. It's not because we're lazy.
 

Kaiserin

please wake up...
In which in modern day, alot of people share the same opinion on beauty. Especially the media.

I'm not saying that no one else can find it attractive, I'm saying that not alot of people that I know of would because then the media shows pictures of thin people, then people are going to think that it's beautiful.

Which is frankly a gigantic problem in and of itself, that the media portrays an impossibly idealistic standard for people to adhere to -- women in particular, since the message often seems to be that if a woman doesn't have her looks, she's worthless and undesirable... but I digress.

True, chubby chasers exist, but society encourages people to both be thin and to pursue thin people as partners, as it stands. Morbid obesity is an issue, but so is fat phobia and being deemed unacceptable if you are a certain level of overweight, regardless of gender. It's a personal problem, a societal problem, a nutritional problem, a lifestyle problem, and a self-esteem problem all in one. People tend not to consider larger people beautiful or attractive both because they are encouraged not to, and because... well, I've found the dissatisfaction of a lot of people who feel they have weight issues reflects on them and locks them into a cycle of depression and obsession over their weight and appearance, but I can't speak for everyone.

One thing that gets under my skin about this is:
There is a thing as too thin also.
People take it to extremes to be thin but they have just as many health risks as those who are overweight.
Technically I am WAY underweight, and it can lead to problems, you cant always say “this is better”

Metabolism and the functions of your body are a part of it, but you know where a lot of underweightness comes from when not related to chemical processes? Eating disorders. Which are not helped by the "perfect," unattainable media ideal I mentioned above. I've found in my personal experience that unrealistic expectations like those cause susceptible individuals to veer way towards one end of the scale or the other; it just usually happens to be the overweight end, because for many, it's easier to gain than to lose when you get depressed.

We live in a culture that associates food with love. If grandma bakes a batch of chocolate chip cookies and you turn it down in the act of trying to stay healthy, you look like you're rejecting the time, effort, and love that went into making them, and you're practically insulting her gift to you by insinuating it's not healthy for you. Same thing goes if you turn down a slice of wedding cake, or the cupcakes a coworker brought in one day, or you sit out of having ice cream with a bunch of friends. Turn these things down in the name of dieting and exercise, and you'll look like the bad guy.

It's funny you should mention this, because if you look back at, say, Renaissance paintings or works of art from a few centuries ago, you'll see a lot of very chubby women depicted in them -- because that was what was considered attractive at the time, as it turns out! Plump meant she was well fed, well taken care of, and probably had a lot of money and other material assets to bring to any marriages. It's interesting what changes in a couple hundred years, huh?

I learned in class not too long ago about a study done in Fiji, which is a culture that still values roundness and weight in both men and women to this day. American television was introduced to Fiji in the 1990s, and... well, see for yourself what happened.
 

Steampunk

One Truth Prevails
Which is frankly a gigantic problem in and of itself, that the media portrays an impossibly idealistic standard for people to adhere to -- women in particular, since the message often seems to be that if a woman doesn't have her looks, she's worthless and undesirable... but I digress.

True, chubby chasers exist, but society encourages people to both be thin and to pursue thin people as partners, as it stands. Morbid obesity is an issue, but so is fat phobia and being deemed unacceptable if you are a certain level of overweight, regardless of gender. It's a personal problem, a societal problem, a nutritional problem, a lifestyle problem, and a self-esteem problem all in one. People tend not to consider larger people beautiful or attractive both because they are encouraged not to, and because... well, I've found the dissatisfaction of a lot of people who feel they have weight issues reflects on them and locks them into a cycle of depression and obsession over their weight and appearance, but I can't speak for everyone.



Metabolism and the functions of your body are a part of it, but you know where a lot of underweightness comes from when not related to chemical processes? Eating disorders. Which are not helped by the "perfect," unattainable media ideal I mentioned above. I've found in my personal experience that unrealistic expectations like those cause susceptible individuals to veer way towards one end of the scale or the other; it just usually happens to be the overweight end, because for many, it's easier to gain than to lose when you get depressed.



It's funny you should mention this, because if you look back at, say, Renaissance paintings or works of art from a few centuries ago, you'll see a lot of very chubby women depicted in them -- because that was what was considered attractive at the time, as it turns out! Plump meant she was well fed, well taken care of, and probably had a lot of money and other material assets to bring to any marriages. It's interesting what changes in a couple hundred years, huh?

I learned in class not too long ago about a study done in Fiji, which is a culture that still values roundness and weight in both men and women to this day. American television was introduced to Fiji in the 1990s, and... well, see for yourself what happened.
True but it gets annoying that they portray “thin is better”…no both ends are bad, its just easier to get over and more desireable to be under.
 

Kaiserin

please wake up...
True but it gets annoying that they portray “thin is better”…no both ends are bad, its just easier to get over and more desireable to be under.

Socially desirable, maybe, but being underweight can do some pretty severe things to your health just the same as being overweight can, only in different ways. (Plus, it's even less attractive when clothes come off and your ribcage is showing, or you're sagging and fatigued all the time because your body isn't getting enough energy... stuff like that.)

It's just unreasonable to ask people (girls, mainly) to be that thin, especially when 1) it's pretty bad for you, and 2) most of the women in media that look like this are either photoshopped or have some kind of illusion working to make them look much more skinny and flawless than they actually are. Girdles, makeup, whatever.
 

Manafi's Dream

フェアリータイプタイム
I think it's sad, but understandable. As soon as the west world gets too fat to do anything China will take over and become the worlds centre. If kids were just taught how important it is to exercise and that you force them to do some exercise every week, and also stop using cars all the time (walk or ride a bike instead, how hard could it be?)

Try walking 3 miles to school everyday at 7 in the morning, or try riding a bike through some of the worst traffic you'll ever see in your life, and then tell me how reasonable that sounds.
 
muscles weighs more than fat,

Urban myth.

Lastly, this is just an observation, but has anyone noticed the make-you-fat-make-you-lose-fat culture? Food corporations want as much of their products consumed as possible. They spend ridiculous amounts of money to convince people to eat. But those people live within a culture that shames fat. So you have beauty and health companies who swear they'll help eliminate that fat, because to them, far =/= beautiful. It's much more profitable for such companies to make you feel awful about yourself so you'll buy their products, and who is it easy to make feel awful about themselves? Fat people.

Yeah it's all the companies fault. I mean god forbid you consume something in moderation.

As for being in a culture that shames fat, are we really? Walk out your front door and see all the fatties you see. Obesity should not normalised.


I'm certainly not saying that people are never at fault for their obesity. I'm simply saying there are a lot of factors that come into play and it's rather ignorant to assume that every overweight person is the way they are because they're lazy and don't care. Also, many of these studies are done under controlled conditions with laboratory animals so participator bias doesn't come into play. If someone eats well and exercises regularly but still has trouble losing weight and keeping it off, there has to be more coming into play than simply "he/she is lazy." There's not one set answer for every overweight person's situation.

The vast majority (of adults) are though. It really is pretty simple. If you are obese you are most likely at fault, unless you're a child, in which case your parents should be stripped of the right to take care of you.

.... to be extremely honest, it isn't beautiful. I don't see many overweight people being called beautiful or pretty these days unless they have this great personality.

I disagree. I really worry that we're almost approaching the stage whereby we're normalising being fat, and it's very worrying. In the past three days alone I've read or seen several articles on how women are embracing "plus-sized" (whatever that means) role-models and seeing it as perfectly ok to be overweight (or "curvy" as it seems to be these days). Fat is not and never will be beautiful.

Try walking 3 miles to school everyday at 7 in the morning, or try riding a bike through some of the worst traffic you'll ever see in your life, and then tell me how reasonable that sounds.

3 miles isn't very far, or if that doesn't appeal, what's wrong with walking part of the way there or back? Or walking/exercising of your own accord.

In short, obesity is a problem, but I don't think it's going to get much better because there are simply put, too many fat apologists.
 

Pesky Persian

Caffeine Queen
Muscle doesn't technically "weigh more" (a pound is a pound, after all) but it is more dense. If you have two samples of the same volume, one muscle and one fat, the muscle is going to have greater weight because it takes more of it to take up the same amount of space compared to fat. So while you're correct that it doesn't weigh more, the overall concept of the statement remains: if you have two people with the same body size (same volume), the one with more muscle will weigh more. But I will agree that saying one weighs more than the other perpetuates a lot of false ideas and should be done away with.

As for it being adults' faults, I think it's true for some but not all. That's why I think lots of different factors should be evaluated before giving the default "just exercise more, fatty" treatment plan. Everyone, no matter the body size, can benefit from exercise. I also think a distinction should be made- where is the line between "overweight" and "obese" and how should it be determined?
 
Some adults definitely do have some other health issues that are playing a role adding to their obesity. A lot of people work, diet, do everything to lose weight, and they cannot lose a pound, they actually gain more. So I wouldn't say it is everyone's fault.

The people who do nothing to stay healthy or live their life going to fast food restaurants every single day, and sit on their ass though, really need to, put it simply, get off their ass. I'm sure weighing that much is quite a disappointment to them and they really don't think they can do it, but some of the stories I hear of people losing weight are very encouraging. I would definitely recommend these people watching other people go through the same issue as them and staying strong and doing everything they can.. because it does work, and they can lose the weight if they're really serious about it.
 

Psychic

Really and truly
I'll give you the first point, and Pesky Persian covered what needed to be said there.


Yeah it's all the companies fault. I mean god forbid you consume something in moderation.
Please point out where I said that this was the only factor that contributes to the obesity problem, despite the fact that it comes after a paragraph where I gave a decent list of of other contributing factors.

My point still stands that food companies make a profit off of selling you food and beauty/health companies make a profit off of promising to make you beautiful after eating all that food.


As for being in a culture that shames fat, are we really? Walk out your front door and see all the fatties you see. Obesity should not normalised.
I don't think you understand the difference between something being common VS something being accepted (and thus not shamed). Just because there are a lot of overweight people doesn't somehow prove that those people aren't shamed over their weight. I would suggest actually learning what fat shaming is, because while you claim it's not that common, it's happened in this very thread.

I don't think anybody here is talking about normalizing obesity per say. Saying that it's possible to be healthy without being a stick is important to keep in mind. but fat shaming in itself is counterproductive because it makes the victim feel awful without actually contributing to improving their health.

Also I lived in Canada and currently live in Israel, and a much smaller percentage of people are overweight in both places compared to the US. :)


Fat is not and never will be beautiful.
Correction: fat used to be quite beautiful. There's a reason that older paintings of beautiful women didn't feature skinny models. Beauty is completely dependent on the ideals of a particular society, which change over time and differ between cultures. Women in some countries are obsessed with tanning and women in other countries walk around with umbrellas on sunny days and so on. We just happen to value being skinny right now, because in this day and age people have a harder time being slim (in a healthy way) because of our access to food.

That is not some excuse for obesity, only a fact. That said, being obese and being a little overweight aren't the same thing and shouldn't be treated as such.


~Psychic
 
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Please point out where I said that this was the only factor that contributes to the obesity problem, despite the fact that it comes after a paragraph where I gave a decent list of of other contributing factors.

Your fat-sympathising tone was the giveaway. Any "corpurashunnz!!!" gets me worried because it's bound to be inherently biased.

My point still stands that food companies make a profit off of selling you food and beauty/health companies make a profit off of promising to make you beautiful after eating all that food.

Yes, that is the free market and capitalism for you. Again though, a bit of common sense and moderation go a long way.

I don't think you understand the difference between something being common VS something being accepted (and thus not shamed). Just because there are a lot of overweight people doesn't somehow prove that those people aren't shamed over their weight. I would suggest actually learning what fat shaming is, because while you claim it's not that common, it's happened in this very thread.

Well good. It's nowhere near common enough. Excuse the pun, but we should not be suger-coating these people's indulgences. As I say, I'm seeing a worrying number of articles which are starting to talk about "real women" and "curves" and normalising their excessive weight.

Also I lived in Canada and currently live in Israel, and a much smaller percentage of people are overweight in both places compared to the US. :)

Two of the greatest nations on earth, that's no surprise. Colour me envious.

Correction: fat used to be quite beautiful.

"Is and never will be". I'll grant you though that I may be wrong, we may once again learn to embrace poor health.
 

Psychic

Really and truly
Your fat-sympathising tone was the giveaway. Any "corpurashunnz!!!" gets me worried because it's bound to be inherently biased.
Why are you sidestepping my reiteration that I never said "corporations are the only factor"? Calling me a "sympathizer" because I listed a long set of causes for obesity the way one would list causes for poor eyesight is not a strong argument.

Also, please explain what fat sympathy is, and why not making people feel terrible is A Bad Thing. We all very well know that obesity is a vital issue, but fat-shaming isn't how we fix it. Likewise, you do not fix eating disorders like anorexia by making patients feel worse than they already do. You're failing to realize that while yes, obesity can often come from overeating, but overeating also has its sources, such as being a coping mechanism. When you make someone feel awful, they're going to resort to those same mechanisms. So no, fat shaming isn't actually going to do anything but make you feel all high and mighty while someone else feels terrible.

If you have research that proves that fat-shaming somehow works as a great motivation tool, now is the time to present it.


Yes, that is the free market and capitalism for you. Again though, a bit of common sense and moderation go a long way.
Agreed. Unfortunately, that's something we as a society lack at times, and obviously not just on this topic.


Well good. It's nowhere near common enough. Excuse the pun, but we should not be suger-coating these people's indulgences.
I'm not sure if you are trying to say that there is not enough fat-shaming. If such is the case, do you actually know anything about fat-shaming? Have you ever been on the receiving end of it? You clearly have little idea of how often it happens or how damaging it is if you think it's a Good Thing, or that it is The Solution to eliminating obesity.

If that wasn't your meaning, I apologize. Alternatively, if you do, you're going to need solid evidence of it.


As I say, I'm seeing a worrying number of articles which are starting to talk about "real women" and "curves" and normalising their excessive weight.
Are we talking about excessive weight here, however? I still haven't really seen you acknowledge that there is a line between morbid obesity (which is obviously not good) VS having an extra 20 pounds on you. If you have articles, now is the time to show them.

Also, what on earth does the term "real woman" even mean? Does that mean that there are fake women out there? What are the requirements for being a "real" anything? This seriously baffles me.


"Is and never will be". I'll grant you though that I may be wrong, we may once again learn to embrace poor health.
We haven't already done that? Supermodels of today are horrendously underweight and tend to have plenty of health problems, yet they are seen as the ideal. And when we're not trying to become sticks, we're tanning like crazy, doing loads of damage to our skin. The expression "it hurts to be beautiful" already fits the bill quite perfectly, but I haven't seen anyone make a fuss over any of that yet. Is fat truly the only indicator of poor health to some people?


~Psychic
 
Also, what on earth does the term "real woman" even mean? Does that mean that there are fake women out there? What are the requirements for being a "real" anything? This seriously baffles me.

I think "real women" translates into = ugly women or plain women. That how it seems to be in the media. Case in point, Dove commercials. They say that they use "real" women, but most of them are preeettty ugly and some were big to. Basically, if you aren't famous or have ideal attributes, then you are "real" in the media's eyes.
 

Steampunk

One Truth Prevails
Socially desirable, maybe, but being underweight can do some pretty severe things to your health just the same as being overweight can, only in different ways. (Plus, it's even less attractive when clothes come off and your ribcage is showing, or you're sagging and fatigued all the time because your body isn't getting enough energy... stuff like that.)

It's just unreasonable to ask people (girls, mainly) to be that thin, especially when 1) it's pretty bad for you, and 2) most of the women in media that look like this are either photoshopped or have some kind of illusion working to make them look much more skinny and flawless than they actually are. Girdles, makeup, whatever.
U make it sound like we're dissagreeing but that is exactly my point.
 

MissDigitalis

love at first sting
It wouldn't surprise me if this entire thread was about how fat Americans are compared to citizens of other countries and how that makes the US evil.

I think the biggest cause for the obesity problem in the world has to do with unhealthy food being cheap. I mean, if you're extremely poor and you have the choice of buying a tomato at $3 or a ton of Top Ramen noodles at 20 cents per pack which are you going to buy? The noodles obviously.

I don't think that weight is all about diet and exercise though. I lost a considerable amount of weight over the course of a year by starving myself and biking 24 miles a day 5 days a week. But on the flip side I've lost 40 pounds just since last summer with NO changes to my diet (which hasn't been the greatest) and little exercise at all because I had a change in my medications.
 

briguin

Dr. Geek
My opinion: People worry too much about it.
People say that America is the fattest nation ( this is true), but the percentage of obese civilians in the U.s is less than 30%. And yes, the number go up every year, but 1) it only goes up one or two percent, and 2) The amount in which the percentage goes up decreases each year. So obesity isn't as big of a problem people say it is, at least when it comes down to numbers.

Also, people, please stop constantly saying "Diet and Exercise, or else, Get more active, eat healthy," etc. For 1) Not everyone has the time in their day to exercise. And 2) In this tough economy, some people simply don't have the money to diet ( I'm talking about those diet programs of "Lose 10 pounds in a month, we deliver").

And also, I swear the "get active" people do one armed push-ups daily.
 

lanmanna

Well-Known Member
My opinion: People worry too much about it.
People say that America is the fattest nation ( this is true), but the percentage of obese civilians in the U.s is less than 30%. And yes, the number go up every year, but 1) it only goes up one or two percent, and 2) The amount in which the percentage goes up decreases each year. So obesity isn't as big of a problem people say it is, at least when it comes down to numbers.

Also, people, please stop constantly saying "Diet and Exercise, or else, Get more active, eat healthy," etc. For 1) Not everyone has the time in their day to exercise. And 2) In this tough economy, some people simply don't have the money to diet ( I'm talking about those diet programs of "Lose 10 pounds in a month, we deliver").

And also, I swear the "get active" people do one armed push-ups daily.
It's more like 35 percent. Not worrying about it is exactly what got us to the percentage.

And LOL, diet programs; you don't need those to lose weight. Eating smaller portions goes a long way; it will also help people save money buying food in this "tough" economy.

Also, if someone has time to watch TV, read, play video games, hangout with friends, etc, they have enough time to exercise 30 minutes a day.
 

aaron345

Member
**** you ****ing healthists who’ve been pushing this fat panic ******** ever since the lowering of BMI thresholds. **** you in the government for getting rich off panic-mongering and appropriating funds for giant new bureaucracies whose stated goal is to experiment on an entire generation of children. **** you employers for your ‘employee wellness programs’ that cause financial hardship to fat people who are penalized for having the wrong BMI. **** you insurance companies for profiting off the panic by charging fat people more for their policies. **** you stupid ****ing economists who do assumption-laced back-of-the-envelope calculations that suggest fat people are responsible for global warming. **** you private and public foundations for issuing giant grants to anyone who does a study that finds in the negative for ‘the obese,’ and **** you researchers who take that money.

The ‘obesity epidemic’ isn’t real, folks. It isn’t real. It isn’t ****ing real. Welcome to the Theatre of Panic, Hate, and Other Shameful Social Tendencies. They say life is a stage. Well, I want ****ing OFF of this one.

Im not even fat if you see my picture im skinny but I'm sick of this!!!?
 

briguin

Dr. Geek
**** you ****ing healthists who’ve been pushing this fat panic ******** ever since the lowering of BMI thresholds. **** you in the government for getting rich off panic-mongering and appropriating funds for giant new bureaucracies whose stated goal is to experiment on an entire generation of children. **** you employers for your ‘employee wellness programs’ that cause financial hardship to fat people who are penalized for having the wrong BMI. **** you insurance companies for profiting off the panic by charging fat people more for their policies. **** you stupid ****ing economists who do assumption-laced back-of-the-envelope calculations that suggest fat people are responsible for global warming. **** you private and public foundations for issuing giant grants to anyone who does a study that finds in the negative for ‘the obese,’ and **** you researchers who take that money.

The ‘obesity epidemic’ isn’t real, folks. It isn’t real. It isn’t ****ing real. Welcome to the Theatre of Panic, Hate, and Other Shameful Social Tendencies. They say life is a stage. Well, I want ****ing OFF of this one.

Im not even fat if you see my picture im skinny but I'm sick of this!!!?

This is the most B.S. I've ever heard.
 

Kaiserin

please wake up...
My opinion: People worry too much about it.
People say that America is the fattest nation ( this is true), but the percentage of obese civilians in the U.s is less than 30%. And yes, the number go up every year, but 1) it only goes up one or two percent, and 2) The amount in which the percentage goes up decreases each year. So obesity isn't as big of a problem people say it is, at least when it comes down to numbers.

According to the OECD, the percentage is actually closer to 33% circa 2009. (That is a PDF file, by the way; fair warning.) Increases are still increases, though, even if they increase less each year. Perhaps it does mean we're starting to curb the trend, but it's still a pretty interesting figure when you look at countries that have better diets (i.e. Japan) and have mind-bogglingly low obesity rates.

Also, obesity and overweightness are defined differently in statistics like these. Obesity only accounts for the ones who are on the very high end of being overweight, so that's still not including all the people who, while maybe not big enough to be an active danger to their health, are still above the target weight range.

Also, people, please stop constantly saying "Diet and Exercise, or else, Get more active, eat healthy," etc. For 1) Not everyone has the time in their day to exercise. And 2) In this tough economy, some people simply don't have the money to diet ( I'm talking about those diet programs of "Lose 10 pounds in a month, we deliver").

I don't think this is all there is to it. About the financial costs, though, you don't have to go out of your way to change everything you eat to organic things, or buy new foods you wouldn't normally bother with. You might instead find that abstaining on buying junk foods, for example, will help both your body and your wallet. It doesn't have to be a bank-breaking practice by necessity.
 
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