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October 22nd: PM2019 084 - The Lucarionite! Adventure on Mega Island!!

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RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
People don't seem to like greninja, although him was something unique and special at the time.

people should thank that at least a starter of Kalos obtained something similar to a mega
People like Greninja's arc, what is awful is the conclusion and the fact that not only Ash lost the opportunity to have an actual mega, but is super-unfair with the already poorly treated Delphox and especially Chesnaught
 

Dragalge

"Orange" Magical Girl
Did Chesnaught ever got important focus? in term of starters I don't think even Typhlosion was this shafted.
Anime wise, Chesnaught had a focus episode albeit filler.

Typhlosion's first appearance was in Hoenn under the command of some random trainer.
 

PsychoLogical

Black and White, Yin and Yang, Light and Dark.
Did Chesnaught ever got important focus? in term of starters I don't think even Typhlosion was this shafted.
Typhlosion’s debut was in Hoenn and never appeared since it’s only two appearances in Hoenn. Chesnaught had one ep but was properly debuted and had proper focus.
 
People like Greninja's arc, what is awful is the conclusion and the fact that not only Ash lost the opportunity to have an actual mega, but is super-unfair with the already poorly treated Delphox and especially Chesnaught
that is not something propper of Kalos, in johto, unova, alola and even hoenn (swampert) the starters have received a bad treatment

Also, Ash having a mega would have stolen all the focus from his main starter, so Yajima invented Ash Greninja that is similar to a Mega
 
People like Greninja's arc, what is awful is the conclusion and the fact that not only Ash lost the opportunity to have an actual mega, but is super-unfair with the already poorly treated Delphox and especially Chesnaught
Greninja’s arc is the definition of a great concept and execution that all came crashing down when Ash lost and then he released it.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Ash not having Chespin is the one thing I'll always hold against XY.

And personally, I doubt Chesnaught will ever get some relevance. He ain't as popular as the frog and furry baitthe fox
 

STICKTOPIA

Well-Known Member
I understand how episodes are rushed nowadays, but it still seems too fast for Ash to meet korrina AND go to the mega island to find a lucarionite in one episode. And also it’s about time because I knew this happening one day that they’d mega evolve his lucario.
 
Greninja’s arc is the definition of a great concept and execution that all came crashing down when Ash lost and then he released it.
I can see why one would think that the execution was flawed in one aspect in regards to the league loss, but I don't see anything wrong with Ash releasing it. That was an incredibly coherent and well-executed end to his character. I much prefer that to AG being stuck back on the ranch. Now that would just be boring and wouldn't have the kind of depth that Ash leaving AG to be the protector of Kalos with Squishy for a while had.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
I can see why one would think that the execution was flawed in one aspect in regards to the league loss, but I don't see anything wrong with Ash releasing it. That was an incredibly coherent and well-executed end to his character. I much prefer that to AG being stuck back on the ranch. Now that would just be boring and wouldn't have the kind of depth that Ash leaving AG to be the protector of Kalos with Squishy for a while had.
Because it shows that Greninja was the special one, not Ash-Greninja aka his bond with Ash. Even at the end of the next episode we can see it fighting against the plants without even needing its transformation.

And protecting Kalos as a garden is not different to being stuck at Oak's ranch if both things are never mentioned.
 
Because it shows that Greninja was the special one, not Ash-Greninja aka his bond with Ash. Even at the end of the next episode we can see it fighting against the plants without even needing its transformation.
Fighting the plants wasn't why Zygarde needed him, it was the ability to sense them, which was unique to him because of the bond, as the show made clear in the episode itself. Ash went on a diatribe on how their bond and power was built for that moment.
And protecting Kalos as a garden is not different to being stuck at Oak's ranch if both things are never mentioned.
This is incredibly incoherent, but that's par for course. What do you even mean? Does Journeys Ash have to say that Greninja is protecting Kalos? It's literally mentioned in the episode itself.

Being sent to ranch is a boring and narratively horrible end for AG, him being released was great.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Fighting the plants wasn't why Zygarde needed him, it was the ability to sense them, which was unique to him because of the bond, as the show made clear in the episode itself. Ash went on a diatribe on how their bond and power was built for that moment.

This is incredibly incoherent, but that's par for course. What do you even mean? Does Journeys Ash have to say that Greninja is protecting Kalos? It's literally mentioned in the episode itself.

Being sent to ranch is a boring and narratively horrible end for AG, him being released was great.
This "protecting Kalos" plot doesn't add anything to either Ash or Greninja's characters. With other Pokémon departures like Charizard or Gliscor, or even human characters departures like May, the anime eventually addressed those events and eventually showed how much stronger they become, which is why those departures have a narratively purpose. Without this, AG ending is as bad as being sent to Oak/Kukui's ranch.
 

Megapixel

Well-Known Member
Fighting the plants wasn't why Zygarde needed him, it was the ability to sense them, which was unique to him because of the bond, as the show made clear in the episode itself. Ash went on a diatribe on how their bond and power was built for that moment.

This is incredibly incoherent, but that's par for course. What do you even mean? Does Journeys Ash have to say that Greninja is protecting Kalos? It's literally mentioned in the episode itself.

Being sent to ranch is a boring and narratively horrible end for AG, him being released was great.
even though greninja is not released, ash still has his pokeball
 
This "protecting Kalos" plot doesn't add anything to either Ash or Greninja's characters. With other Pokémon departures like Charizard or Gliscor, or even human characters departures like May, the anime eventually addressed those events and eventually showed how much stronger they become, which is why those departures have a narratively purpose. Without this, AG ending is as bad as being sent to Oak/Kukui's ranch.
Yes it does? Greninja leaving Ash to help Kalos is a fitting end for a Pokemon who once only fought and trained for himself. It shows the growth of Greninja and his bond with Ash with both being two intertwining characters whose development hinged on each other as their bond is now made use for a higher purpose, which was once again narratively built up before and executed flawlessly in the episode itself.

AG not being mentioned again doesn't change any of that. What a stupidly pedantic and arbitrary threshold. Definitely not something I put any stock in or care about.
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
And protecting Kalos as a garden is not different to being stuck at Oak's ranch if both things are never mentioned.
tbh I prefer it since at least it's a narrative reason why Ash isn't taking the pokemon that literally synchronizes with him to future regions.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Not particularly eager for Satoshi to get his hands on that Mega Stone. While Mega Lucario is clearly popular, I would much rather see Satoshi use a less exposed Mega Evolution, like Mega Heracross. This is the one saga where Satoshi using his reserves from Okido-hakase's lab for Mega Evolution purposes would actually make sense and be doable, but alas.
 

Dragonsoldier77

Bittersweet Satisfaction
This "protecting Kalos" plot doesn't add anything to either Ash or Greninja's characters. With other Pokémon departures like Charizard or Gliscor, or even human characters departures like May, the anime eventually addressed those events and eventually showed how much stronger they become, which is why those departures have a narratively purpose. Without this, AG ending is as bad as being sent to Oak/Kukui's ranch.
So your logic is it hasn't returned so it's bad? What kind line of thinking is that? So basically you're saying the likes his alola and unova mons are also bad because they haven't shown any growth at all, and they've actually appeared so they must be even worse.

Being released with a purpose is much better than just rotting in the labs. At least there's a narrative reason why ash hasn't tried to get it, unlike all his lab mons who are being ignored for no reason while he's aiming for the top.
 
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