October 28th: PM2019 130 - The Finals II: Toying

[Ragnarok4]

Can we get something like that scene in the opening, where Ash uses his entire team all at once.

i love the rewrite you did of the pokemon anime, it's almost perfect

 

[MetaMantis]

i love the rewrite you did of the pokemon anime, it's almost perfect

I tried to do the best I could reducing random junk and improving the leagues. (Imo the Sinnoh league was the only one that's any good).

What was your favourite change I made?

 

[Ragnarok4]

I tried to do the best I could reducing random junk and improving the leagues. (Imo the Sinnoh league was the only one that's any good).

What was your favourite change I made?

I liked

-Red appearing and humiliating Ash at the beginning of Hoenn - Late Johto and then being defeated by Ash, thus ending the debate between the two and Red seeing how much Ash has grown

-Ash defeating all his rivals in the world championship

-As an enthusiastic supporter of Amourshipping, of course I liked the ending

-Iris being a very strong trainer from the beginning and winning the Unova League, so her title of champion makes more sense

Regular

-In fact I'm fine with Dawn losing the final, in my opinion Zoey deserved to win, I would have shown her as Top Cordinator in her return during Journeys

-The same for May, it would have made her win the Johto Grand Festival, on her third try.

 

[Sham]

Wasn't what she mentioned a dub-only thing or something.

Yeah, she basically said she can’t wait until they enter the league like in the games which is fighting the Elite Four and then challenging the Champion for their title

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

"The champions league" exists in the JPN version too of DP

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

It exists but it’s not the PWC. It’s just competing to fight the current Champion. If anything the PWC took from the Champions Cup in BW2 where you fight Lance, Steven, Cynthia and Alder there

Yeah
The Champions league never sounded to be a champion where tournaments competed, rather simply a tournament with the Elite 4 and current champion to crown yourself the winner
Ash kind of did that when he beat Kukui as SM had no elite 4 and had Kukui as the defacto champion aka strongest trainer of the whole region
So they had to go even above the champions league, which is an adaptation of the PWT from the games, but grander

Plus the Elite 4 cup that is mentioned in JN during Lance vs Leon is probably that same Champions league only

 

[Sham]

Yeah
The Champions league never sounded to be a champion where tournaments competed, rather simply a tournament with the Elite 4 and current champion to crown yourself the winner
Ash kind of did that when he beat Kukui as SM had no elite 4 and had Kukui as the defacto champion aka strongest trainer of the whole region
So they had to go even above the champions league, which is an adaptation of the PWT from the games, but grander

Plus the Elite 4 cup that is mentioned in JN during Lance vs Leon is probably that same Champions league only

Edit: I might have accidentally deleted the post you replied to.

Dephender might have to fact check this because idk but apparently this is it


“After winning a Pokémon League Conference, a Trainer may enter the Champion League of the relevant region, where the Elite Four and the League Championawait. Like in the games, Trainers must defeat all members of the Elite Four for the right of challenging the Champion. Once the Elite Four is defeated, Champions are required to defend their title from challengers. If the battle against the challenger is won, Champions hold on to their current status. However, if the challenger succeeds, Champions must relinquish their title to the winning Trainer, who will then be deemed the new Pokémon Champion.”

So the current Champions, collected badges, entered the league, won and then competed in the Champions league only to take down the current Champion.

I would have considered Ash the Champion of Alola anyway because the Kukui battle was a just a reward for winning

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Edit: I might have accidentally deleted the post you replied to.

Dephender might have to fact check this because idk but apparently this is it


“After winning a Pokémon League Conference, a Trainer may enter the Champion League of the relevant region, where the Elite Four and the League Championawait. Like in the games, Trainers must defeat all members of the Elite Four for the right of challenging the Champion. Once the Elite Four is defeated, Champions are required to defend their title from challengers. If the battle against the challenger is won, Champions hold on to their current status. However, if the challenger succeeds, Champions must relinquish their title to the winning Trainer, who will then be deemed the new Pokémon Champion.”

So the current Champions, collected badges, entered the league, won and then competed in the Champions league only to take down the current Champion.

I would have considered Ash the Champion of Alola anyway because the Kukui battle was a just a reward for winning

It might have been a reward but it was also the battle that properly cemented him as THE champion. Kukui was the strongest shown in SM, to be the champion means to be the top trainer of a region, Ash had to prove he was one after winning the first Alola league. His main test, exemplified by Tapu Koko himself giving Ash his final grand trial

There is a reason Ash vs Kukui was flashbacked to during the whole Champion rant in JN instead of Ash vs Gladion

 

[Sham]

It might have been a reward but it was also the battle that properly cemented him as THE champion. Kukui was the strongest shown in SM, to be the champion means to be the top trainer of a region, Ash had to prove he was one after winning the first Alola league. His main test, exemplified by Tapu Koko himself giving Ash his final grand trial

There is a reason Ash vs Kukui was flashbacked to during the whole Champion rant in JN instead of Ash vs Gladion

I mean I don’t think the Kukui battle made much of a difference in terms of him having his status since he already had won the trophy anyway but I get your point.

Something that I’ve always wondered is, will the anime every bring up the topic of somebody actually having to challenge him for the title. In the games when the main character wins that happens but I doubt that’s ever going to.

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

I mean I don’t think the Kukui battle made much of a difference in terms of him having his status since he already had won the trophy anyway but I get your point.

Something that I’ve always wondered is, will the anime every bring up the topic of somebody actually having to challenge him for the title. In the games when the main character wins that happens but I doubt that’s ever going to.

I saw the Battle royale has sort of being like that, while not officially a league challenge it still was pretty much the top Alola trainers trying to beat the Champion and one up him
Having another title defense because someone won the league would be cool but also won't really hit the same way

 

[Sham]

I saw the Battle royale has sort of being like that, while not officially a league challenge it still was pretty much the top Alola trainers trying to beat the Champion and one up him
Having another title defense because someone won the league would be cool but also won't really hit the same way

That’s true. I guess that’s thinking too hard about if Ash ever has to defend his title in a hypothetical Alola League. Anyway while on this topic, do you think Ash is winning this?

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

That’s true. I guess that’s thinking too hard about if Ash ever has to defend his title in a hypothetical Alola League. Anyway while on this topic, do you think Ash is winning this?

Yepp
Simply because Leon's post loss development needs to be shown. It's a pivotal part of his character and brings his story full circle. Considering how Leon is the best Galar character in the anime in terms of treatment, and how they've included almost every other aspect of him, I think it's pretty much set in stone he will lose simply due to that

 

[Sham]

Yepp
Simply because Leon's post loss development needs to be shown. It's a pivotal part of his character and brings his story full circle. Considering how Leon is the best Galar character in the anime in terms of treatment, and how they've included almost every other aspect of him, I think it's pretty much set in stone he will lose simply due to that

Got it. I think based on showings of Leon quickly sweeping his opponents and Ash struggling (which I’m not complaining about or care about) makes the whole situation seem illogical. You could argue that Alain and Diantha are way easier opponents than Cynthia and Steven but still he beat Alain with base Charizard quickly and Rillaboom totaled Diantha’s team.

Assuming that Leon is way stronger than Cynthia then him struggling with her right before his big match isn’t looking good.

 

[Sham]

Well, given what she says at Pasio in Masters, Champions really do not have another venue to get together and fight each other.

I don’t play Masters, what did she say exactly? Champions sparring for fun would be nice (before this). Diantha and Steven I’ll let go because of the crisis going on but they literally dropped the ball in BW and didn’t have Cynthia fight Alder but instead Caitlin for… reasons I guess

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Well, given what she says at Pasio in Masters, Champions really do not have another venue to get together and fight each other.

That's Masters though, different from the anime
And doesn't even line up with the games when PWT exists

 

[Sham]

She says that Champions of all over coming together to Pasio is a golden opportunity for her to fight them all and reach the top. She doesn't mention this ever happening elsewhere.

Gotcha. Well I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere on off screen land they’ve challenged each other to test each others skills. Not that far fetched

 

[Eevee903]

I don't why, but I have hard time getting invested in this battle, even with all the narrative built-up. Maybe because Cynthia vs Ash already felt like the finals to me.

 

[dp045]

I don't why, but I have hard time getting invested in this battle, even with all the narrative built-up. Maybe because Cynthia vs Ash already felt like the finals to me.

Cynthia was established more than a decade ago, in the anime she was unofficially exposed as the strongest trainer of all those who were shown (at least the fandom perceived it that way) until Leon appeared, had interactions with Ash and that one day he wanted to face her, also in the games he had many appearances enhancing his image more. So yes, Ash vs. Cynthia could easily be the end of it and leave Leon vs. Ash as something else. Something like that, the final of the Master would have been Ash vs. Cynthia and then Leon was the champion of the previous tournament that came to defend his title.

 

[Eevee903]

Hot take: they should have set up Ash vs Leon like Ash vs Kukui. Ash beats Cynthia in the finals and gets the right the fight Leon.

 

[Locormus]

Is it weird for Ash to be so relaxed before fighting the strongest trainer in the PWC?

When you just beat number two there probably is some sense of accomplishment.. Also, he already beat three champions in this tournament. If he's not confident now he simply never will be.