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October 9th: PM2019 040 - VS Thunder! Legendary Raid Battle!!

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Deitylight

Legendary Trainer
People really can't tell the difference, this argument has always bothered me.

Good people use Pokemon and Poke balls to catch Pokemon legitimately.

Team Rocket like poachers use everything else but their Pokemon and poke balls.

The joke that everyone else is a hypocrite is just old and just wrong.

Why do you think Jessie was allowed to keep Yanma/Yanmega from a narrative perspective in DP anime. Because even if she showed poor sportsmanship, she still caught it with a Poke ball.

She didn't use a net, a cage, a mecha, or anything else, she used a Poke ball.

If Team Rocket would use Poke balls and their Pokemon and didn't try to steal trainer Pokemon they'd be lime everyone else.
To this day, I will never understand how people get this really twisted about how Pokeball are evil enslaving tools when every single Pokemon media contradicts this head to hell and back and using N or team plasma for that matter is a fool's errand because they're both tools to the main villain! There is a point where head canon gets a little out of control.
Any who...this looks super exciting. Legendary Pokémon being fought against to be caught was 100% something I expected when they added an main character-level protagonist whose goal is to catch all Pokémon. This episode has been a long time coming and matches the opening. It’s honestly shocking (heh...) trainers don’t try to catch legendary Pokémon more often. I really appreciate the writers kind of “resetting” the Pokémon world and lore to be more accurate/close to the games’ lore this series, fitting to call it “Pokémon” (2019). Just like Satoshi’s Pikachu can seriously fight against a Champion’s ace and not get taken out in one-move, even hit it with multiple moves itself that cause real damage now legendary Pokémon can be caught.

Reminds me how “realistic” “I Choose You!” felt with a bunch of trainers rushing into the Pokémon Center reporting of Entei’s presence then Satoshi, Makoto and other trainers immediately rushing out to find and confront it and catch it. Legendary Pokémon are not portrayed to be untouchable. Just strong and rare. These aren’t gods and I never dug the hole they wrote themselves into to avoid ones like these being caught. I remember as a young lad watching the episode of the Chikorita trainer from Pokémon Chronicles confronting Fire with Bohmander, winning but not catching it despite supposedly chasing it much of his life.

He was simply happy for the experience... which was a cute lesson but kind of a cop out because ..I mean the franchise is about catching Pokémon and especially rare ones. Pokémon GO is super popular now for that reason and even regular Max Raid battles spawn an assortment of rare/thematic Pokémon in SwSh. Why not have the characters actually confront and catch these Pokémon especially when they’ve been confirmed to not be one-of-a-kind. Looks hella exciting and there’s actual stakes and hype for me to learn who these “helpers” are, if Rabbifoot will evolve, and ultimately if Gou will succeed and the writers will make a grand trend break.

No lie, I may not be the biggest fan of some of PM2019’s choices but hell if the writers aren’t at least trying to innovate, experiment and mess with the formula. It’s honestly shocking in itself a MC can catch so many Pokémon period but kind of “duh” kind of thing since catching em’ all and completing the Zukan has always been a side goal in the games itself and Gou represents a completionist.
I'm glad I'm not alone in this thought on how legendary and mythical Pokemon are treated in that regards. People often forget that at the end of the day, they're still Pokemon and are eligible to be caught like any other if presented with the opportunity which brings some interesting story theories on how they'll handle Crown tundra if it makes it into the anime.
 

Rohanator

Well-Known Member
In all honesty they don’t think it’s pointless to speculate on Ash getting another Electric type. I mean heck when you get down to it , you can come up with a practically a reason to say you doubt that Ash will capture “x” Pokémon but that doesn’t mean that speculating on it is pointless.

Sure everyone has their opinions but let’s be honest here regardless of how people feel about it there is really nothing that indicates that Ash will or will not get get a 2nd Electric type.

It is guaranteed that Ash will get a 2nd Electric? No, of course not but to try and say that it’s pointless to speculate on it just because you doubt it will happen is ridiculous.

I mean heck some people also doubted that Ash would get Dragonite in episode 10 or that his next capture after Riolu would be another Pure Fighting type or that Ash would get a Pokémon with Dark type moves that weren’t Bite or Crunch, and yet look what happened.

Now do all of those things mean that Ash will definitely get a 2nd Electric type? No, of course not but let’s not pretend that this whole Ash can’t get or is unlikely a 2nd Electric Pokémon argument is somehow superior to the other Ash can’t get “x” Pokémon arguments.

When it’s not, it’s just as breakable as the other arguments, although whether or not Ash gets a 2nd Electric type this season remains to be seen.
I would've thought speculating on him getting Dragonite was stupid as well. If it happens it happens, but I think shooting out ideas for the sake of it with no real basis other than "it's not impossible" is just a waste of my time, if you disagree you're free to do you of course.

Any who...this looks super exciting. Legendary Pokémon being fought against to be caught was 100% something I expected when they added an main character-level protagonist whose goal is to catch all Pokémon. This episode has been a long time coming and matches the opening. It’s honestly shocking (heh...) trainers don’t try to catch legendary Pokémon more often. I really appreciate the writers kind of “resetting” the Pokémon world and lore to be more accurate/close to the games’ lore this series, fitting to call it “Pokémon” (2019). Just like Satoshi’s Pikachu can seriously fight against a Champion’s ace and not get taken out in one-move, even hit it with multiple moves itself that cause real damage now legendary Pokémon can be caught.

Reminds me how “realistic” “I Choose You!” felt with a bunch of trainers rushing into the Pokémon Center reporting of Entei’s presence then Satoshi, Makoto and other trainers immediately rushing out to find and confront it and catch it. Legendary Pokémon are not portrayed to be untouchable. Just strong and rare. These aren’t gods and I never dug the hole they wrote themselves into to avoid ones like these being caught. I remember as a young lad watching the episode of the Chikorita trainer from Pokémon Chronicles confronting Fire with Bohmander, winning but not catching it despite supposedly chasing it much of his life.

He was simply happy for the experience... which was a cute lesson but kind of a cop out because ..I mean the franchise is about catching Pokémon and especially rare ones. Pokémon GO is super popular now for that reason and even regular Max Raid battles spawn an assortment of rare/thematic Pokémon in SwSh. Why not have the characters actually confront and catch these Pokémon especially when they’ve been confirmed to not be one-of-a-kind. Looks hella exciting and there’s actual stakes and hype for me to learn who these “helpers” are, if Rabbifoot will evolve, and ultimately if Gou will succeed and the writers will make a grand trend break.

No lie, I may not be the biggest fan of some of PM2019’s choices but hell if the writers aren’t at least trying to innovate, experiment and mess with the formula. It’s honestly shocking in itself a MC can catch so many Pokémon period but kind of “duh” kind of thing since catching em’ all and completing the Zukan has always been a side goal in the games itself and Gou represents a completionist.
BIG amen. If you're big on lore consistency and stuff I get why you won't like this episode but as far as I'm concerned throw it out the window if it means the show becomes more fun to watch, which this definitely would make it for me. The title getting reset to just Pocket Monsters symbolizing how the rules are in some way reset as well is a great point.
 
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Master Pikachu 11

Well-Known Member
The only reason that I am against the idea of Goh getting Zapdos is that it is going to stay in the lab and he is not going to use it often, if at all. I would have no problem if he uses the Pokémon that he catches often. He has only used Raboot and Sobble for the most part so instead of trying to catch a wild Fearow for example, which I’m glad that didn’t get. I would like for him to use Spearow and evolve it into one instead. Plus he is a rookie and I would like if he waited to a later part of the series, but if he catches it then he catches it. Also if he catches it then I hope Ash gets its Galarian counterpart.
 

Sham

The Guardian of War
Don’t you find it funny that people are outwardly defending Goh catching a legendary but were going on parades for months about how a certain character didn’t deserve a Pokémon and deserved to be hated on because they didn’t earn it?

Anyway if Goh actually catches Zapdos, I’ll probably not take this series seriously until further notice and it’s not because I don’t think he “deserves” one (whatever that even means) but because it just proves his goal is flawed even further. Goh is literally catching anything he wants without having to battle it (going against established rules for the past 20 years) and now his “luck” (Pokémon Go pandering) is allowing him to catch a legendary bird. I realize this time around it’s a raid battle but it just seems like salt on the wound quite frankly. Where are my stakes? Why isn’t Goh having a difficult time with his goal? I’m withholding my full judgment until this episode airs but at this point it’s not looking good.
 

Lacuna

Goodnight
I remember as a young lad watching the episode of the Chikorita trainer from Pokémon Chronicles confronting Fire with Bohmander, winning but not catching it despite supposedly chasing it much of his life.
He was simply happy for the experience... which was a cute lesson but kind of a cop out because ..I mean the franchise is about catching Pokémon and especially rare ones.
I was thinking of that episode of Chronicles too! I honestly thought that maybe they'd do something similar with this episode.
As for the rest of your post, I totally agree. It's refreshing that things are being changed up in this series, even if slightly, from how they've always been. Though it used to bother me (and honestly it still does sometimes), it's good that it really does feel like a "new" adventure rather than the same one with a fresh coat of paint. You gotta see it that way to really appreciate it.
 

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
Legendary's and Mythicals should be caught, but by Trainers at a level like a Red, Champions, Elite 4s, Gym Leaders, etc and certainly in 1v1 battles.
But why do you feel that way? I still remember as a kid turning on my copy of FireRed and going and catching Thunder myself around badge 3-5. Why do you feel like a trainer has to be super strong and accomplished to a Red-tier level to catch legendaries? The games certainly don’t portray it that way, roaming legendary encounters happen.

Gou’s clearly meant to be portrayed as a skilled trainer specializing in catching more than anything and demonstrated that by usage of PoGo ball throws and training/working with his partner Pokémon to suit that need. He’s also a braniac and we know was an exceptionally smart child (hence his knowledge despite only becoming a trainer at the start of the series.) Catching parallels battling as a polar opposite in theme this series both Satoshi/Gou represent and excel at so why would a catcher not seek out more challenges and succeed? What reason do you have for having an ill feeling about this other than it not being something you’re used to when comparing it to past series?

The Entei battle in the movie was a series of 1v1 battles. The Zapdos raid will most likely be a bunch of trainers ganging up on it. If they're testing their skills, where's the honor in ganging up like a bunch of pussies? If they want to catch it, how is the catcher decided among so many people? Will Zapdos magically split into a bunch of Zapdos so everyone gets a chance to catch one? If Team Rocket did the same thing and ganged up on Zapdos to try and catch it, suddenly they're the bad guys and would get blasted off again by the MC.
The Entei battle was pretty much a makeshift raid battle, Makoto, Souji and Satoshi were just attacking it and couldn’t keep up. I just feel like all your questions and more will be answered in the episode and I don’t think anyone has any reservations against TRio catching Pokémon fair and square but I’m sure you and I both know it’s stealing others Pokémon for evil intentions through usage of cages...not Monster Balls.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
There's a pretty good reason he never got an Electric type, look at the pre-gen 5 ones. They're all pretty much pure Electric!
It wasn't until BW that they started slapping other typings onto a lot of Electric types

Naganadel felt like an experiment, similar to Ash having Garchomp as a Pokeride Pokemon. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a Electric type this saga, but not Zapdos. Toxtricity is still on my speculation list, along with Surge showcasing the alternate form either before or after Ash gets his own

I actually want neither of them to get Zapdos, it's still fairly early on for this short of thing. Take for instance Grookey, it's bad enough that they took this long to debut him. Think how underwhelming it'd be to give a character a legendary then a Grookey after

I'm pretty freaking sure this 'unexpected help' is Team Rocket but it'd be swell if it was Surge, hyping up the inevitable rematch with Ash(Since Ash presumably beats Bea in the previous episode, time to start hyping up the next opponent!) and giving a reason for Dragonite to come into the match.

They're giving Goh a team so he has no need for a legendary if it's literally going to rot at the lab, since the 6th slot would be jokes like Kaijukarp if not Grookey. There's legendary Pokemon that haven't been seen in years outside of the Hoopa movie, it'd be downright disgraceful to see the beasts finally show up again only to get caught and treated like ordinary Pokemon.

If this was further on, okay I guess? But Ash isn't done yet and giving characters multiple legendaries is dangerously falling into fanfic territory and not the good kind. This is the Animeverse, not Origins lol

If Ash gets any legendaries outside of the wolf, I seriously hope they stay out of the top 8 matches. I'd rather see Charizard, Sceptile, Greninja, Lycanroc/Incineroar, Snorlax, Heracross.... Pokemon that Ash raised to be OP fighting there instead of say, Mewtwo showing up and using Psychic to knock Cynthia's Garchomp out!
 

darkpoet

Well-Known Member
Lol, people are really pathetic. This reminds me of episode 20 where some people actually thought Ash was going to catch Lugia. Lol, Goh catching Zapdos will most likely be a 0.01%. Probably just another click bait episode. Besides, Goh barely have enough skill to even capture one. You guys can calm down now.

Yeah, he doesn't have the skills to defeat it but since its a raid battle, he doesn't need to be the one to defeat it. He just needs to take advantage of the situation and throw his MONSTER BALL AKA MASTERBALL and he gets the legendary
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
My dude why are you trying to belittle people so much? It's a show mostly made for kids, how about you let people have their own thoughts and respond without the snarky attitude?

Besides earlier today I called you out on your wrong opinion regarding "Goh possibly being more incompetent than kanto ash", where I also gave objectively fair reasoning as to why Goh is improving so much faster, yet you don't respond... if you only respond to call people out but can't admit to your own flaws, why bother being in a public thread?

Nothing personal though, I just felt like you were jabbing at people in unnecessary ways


1. Stating something that is objectively right and objectively wrong is belittling someone? GTFO here.

2. Not my fault your comment was buried in obscurity and I happened to miss it. I only managed to see it now.

You say it is nothing personal, yet you accuse me of belittling people when you do that to me. If you had something wrong with something I objectively stated and wanted to challenge that view, you could 've simply pointed that out without the other nonsensical rubbish you added to your message.

So, based off Goh's battle against a "Wild Pokemon", he becomes more competent than Ash who has had much more official battles in Kanto, trained more pokemon from Scratch and also took part in a regional league, fighting gym leaders?

Your approach to judging whether a trainer is competent or not is unfortunately skewed and biased towards Goh. Let me explain why.

Judging Goh based off 1 battle like this would be unfair as the story/plot was written in such a manner to skew this particular moment in favor of Goh. What I mean by that is, in the flygon capture, Ash seemed inferior to Goh and Pikachu seemed inferior to Goh's Rabifoot. However, in theory, would you use that as an example to conclude Goh > Ash and Rabifoot > Pikachu? No. If someone were to just watch that episode, that would be the case. However, that clearly isn't.

Secondly, Pokemon Battles have evolved over the years from the OG series right up to Journeys. The way pokemon battles have been choreographed has also substantially been changed. Naturally certain animations that are possible now wouldn't have been possible then and also, battles weren't as dynamic as they are now during the OG series. The same goes for execution and choreography of certain strategies etc during battle.
So using that to argue in Goh's favor is again, is just simply unfair to Ash. We've seen elite four members use less strategy than Goh in some of their past battles against ash like Prima(Loreleii) did against him during the Orange Islands arc for example. Does that imply Goh is > Lorelei simply because he displayed > Strategy in that one battle?

I think at the end of the day,
Kanto Ash has had more battle experience than Goh.
Kanto Ash did defeat some Gym Leaders and win badges out of merit.
Kanto Ash trained an entire team of Pokemon.
Kanto Ash did participate in the regional Pokemon League and got to the top 16 and would've possibly at least gotten to the top 8 if he didn't have to forfeit against Ritchie.

Goh so far, took part in 1 tournament where he was absolutely clobbered in the first round. Other than that, he's thrown Pokeballs on several wild Pokemon and the only other victory of his I can think of is against the Karate Master ( who you could say at max, is the equivalent of 1 Kanto Gym Leader at) and this wild Pokemon capture which in your eyes automatically makes Goh superior to Kanto ash

Naturally, Goh has the other advantage of being in the company of veteran trainer Ash, unlike Kanto Ash who was in the company of Brock and Misty who weren't really better battlers than him at the time. While Goh is obviously improving, claiming he is superior to Kanto Ash because of a battle against a wild pokemon is just absurd.

The only fair way to judge who is the better trainer is to simply look at all their accomplishments so far and decide. If Goh managed to give Kiawe some trouble, I would've automatically stated Goh is >>>>> Kanto Ash. However, Goh so far hasn't displayed enough feats to put him above Kanto Ash as a trainer.
Unfortunately, we can't use Pokemon captures anymore to gauge how strong Goh is simply because of how trivial and easy the capture system has been changed to this particular season. Ash had more trouble capturing a fletchling and tailow than Goh has had capturing fully evolved pokemon (By simply chucking a Pokeball at them). To add to that, if you go back to OG kanto, Ash ended up capturing a questionable "Donut" when he tried chucking a Pokeball on Mankey and think back as to how difficult that particular capture was.

So until we see Goh perform in actual trainer battles, we can't really conclude how he stacks up to Kanto Ash.

I apologize I missed your comment and didn't respond to it. However, the only person who is belittling people here is you. You are insulting me and accusing me of belittling someone when all I did is objectively point out something wrong with that argument.

If I'm wrong, do tell me how.
The person was claiming that more than 1 Pokemon vs a single Pokemon was Barbaric. I simply stated that this is not necessarily true and gave a very good example why.

So are you telling me, using 4 rattatas against a Charizard is more barbaric than using 3 Rayquazas against it simply because 4>3?
or Using 2 ratatas against a spearow is more barbaric than say, Leon using his Charizard against it?

If you have a problem with something I said factually, then please feel free to take it up with me. If not, I suggest you keep your irrelevant belittling nonsensical comments to yourself.
 
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Are you sure you're not Zoruagible's alt?
I think one doesn't need to be a Goh hatter to agree with that assesment.
(I am surprised I have not seen @Zoruagible in this thread)

Saying Dragonite do most of the work against Golurk is not the same as Goh stealing from Ash. Ash do not even try to get a pokeball.
The Entei battle was pretty much a makeshift raid battle, Makoto, Souji and Satoshi were just attacking it and couldn’t keep up.
I am fine if the raid battle is against evil pokemon or pokemon that cause harm if not stopped. Maybe Zapdos create havoc in power plant?

Honestly, I think Goh will catch pseudo before actual legendary.

The only legendary I want for Ash is Ho-oh.
 
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dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Don’t you find it funny that people are outwardly defending Goh catching a legendary but were going on parades for months about how a certain character didn’t deserve a Pokémon and deserved to be hated on because they didn’t earn it?

There's a massive difference between wanting a character to share screentime while hogging most of the focus and really cool Pokemon and then becoming jaded to the whole thing.

To getting riled up over 1st generation Pokemon like Aerodactyl or Zapdos when Ash caught 2.5 already and I'm being generous.

This would be entirely different if 1st generation would stop being shoved down our throats, but even then what the hell would be the point? They're going to make this about Go anyway. Besides Ash got his episode with the rematch, its Go's turn to get 5 episodes,
 

Satopokebato

Well-Known Member
This season pokemon seems to be baiting a lot. First sobble and farfetched hype , then raichu and flygon and now this zapdos. Internet sites are also churning views by making articles on these topics like raichu one. Go won't catch zapdos. This is just hilarious for a trainer who started journey now to catch a legendary pokemon. Even pokemon go players had to wait 1 year for the,!!!
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
I think one doesn't need to be a Goh hatter to agree with that assesment.
(I am surprised I have not seen @Zoruagible in this thread)

Saying Dragonite do most of the work against Golurk is not the same as Goh stealing from Ash. Ash do not even try to get a pokeball.

I am fine if the raid battle is against evil pokemon or pokemon that cause harm if not stopped. Maybe Zapdos create havoc in power plant?

Honestly, I think Goh will catch pseudo before actual legendary.

The only legendary I want for Ash is Ho-oh.

Or people don't live through Goh like most of this forum seems to. :rolleyes:
He clearly likes Red, I hate Red albeit not as much as I despise Goh. Major difference

Also they've still got a lot of work to do with Ho-oh, I just want a proper meeting between Ash and Ho-oh. Like the art promo for the Ho-oh episode implied, then the summary came out and killed all hopes... then the episode further pushed our hopes and dreams down a hole by letting a mere COTD see Ho-oh, Ash didn't. Now if both saw it, that'd be somewhat acceptable but that was Ho-oh's first appearance and mention in the main series in over a decade and it was incredibly underwhelming. They could have done so much better!

But if a Ho-oh plot with Ash is why Darkest Day is getting thrown out early and since this is probably the only time they'll actually be able to do this, that'd be fine I guess. I just hope it's worth a rushed version of Darkest Day and that the greater Team Rocket organization gets brought into play again

I'm indifferent on Ho-oh getting caught by Ash, it should only be him due to the buildup. But mostly I just want to see Ash fight Ho-oh, like in M20 but actually shown off. I'm sick of the Pikachu fights but I'd make an exception in that scenario as much like Ash is the only one that should catch Ho-oh? Pikachu should be the one fighting it

What is 2.5?

He means Mimey's retcon
 
Dont tell me whether this franchise is right for me or not, that's MINE to decide. You are a bit rude
I agree with you, the raid battles are somewhat more realistic and it is typical of cowards

I would agree if the legendary Pokémon enters the battle to test the strength of that team of trainers, but catching it with the help of others trainers.....no
 
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