Official 6th Generation Competitive Metagame Discussion

[Ragnarok]

Continued from here

Discuss changes to the previous metagame here.

Thread is bumpable.

 

[The Master Chief]

So infiltrator can now hit through substitute which is epic. Out of all pokemon with this ability Chandelure is most likely going to become the most used due to it's massive base 145 sp.atk stat. Crobat/Golbat are also pretty good pokes with this ability since they're pretty good in bulk. (slap an eviolite on golbat obviously) Noivern does have the same base hp/def/sp.def as Crobat but Crobat/Golbat is actually better than Noivern imo simply because they aren't weak to fairy nor do they have a x4 weakness to ice. Some may think Noivern is better but meh. I vote for Crobat/Golbat.

Grass types can't get spored or powdered anymore so another reason to carry a grass type would be for spore bait. Due to fairy being introduced i see usage of breloom going down unless there's some massive gen6 threat that it checks/counters that i forgot about.

Gengar is now officialy a pain in the *** to deal with imo.It now has a reason to use Sludge Bomb and it has a mega evo. On the bright side if it is holding a gengarite then it can't do that annoying trickscarf lead.

 

[jesusfreak94]

Mandibuzz is actually pretty good right now. Its natural bulk makes it a great answer to all sorts of stuff like Gengar and Alakazam, and it doesn't have to worry so much about Rain-boosted attacks flying around everywhere like it did in BW. I'm currently running a specially defensive set, and I've found that if you don't have a strong super-effective hit, you probably won't break through it with special attacks. Even some super effective ones don't scare it; the standard bulky offensive Rotom-W only does 32.62 - 38.77% with Volt Switch, for goodness sakes. Mandibuzz also got several neat little buffs during the generation shift that made it even better. Defog is one of the best new support moves for when you really need Stealth Rock gone, and although Mandibuzz doesn't enjoy its own Stealth Rock weakness, it certainly has the bulk to come in and remove hazards without too much difficulty. The most common weather I've seen on PO and PS!'s ladders is Sand, and Overcoat protects it from that and the occasional Hail as well. As of XY, it also protects Mandibuzz from powder moves, which is great for when you really need an emergency switch-in for Breloom or something. The fact that Steel no longer resists Dark makes Foul Play a much better weapon, especially against stupid Genesect and Scizor that think they can just switch in on Mandibuzz with ease. If not Foul Play, Mandibuzz also appreciates the buffed Knock Off. In case you were unaware, it's been boosted to 65 power and gets a 1.5 boost when it hits an opponent with an item (so pretty much just the first hit). While Mandibuzz may not be able to abuse the power boost that much, the fact that it now has a move that serves as a STAB move with low but usable power (after that first hit, anyway) and removes the opponent's item (which can completely dismantle certain sets) is really awesome.

 

[Caluminousdugtrio]

Hazards are now a lot easier to get rid of thanks to DEFOGS BUFF!

with it, all hazards AND screens are removed from the field allowing Lugia and Ho oh to do so much better in this Generation. And speaking of Ubers, Xerneas with Geomancy + Power Herb + Moon STAB absolutely wrecks the tier. With Moonblast and Thunderbolt as coverage, it can OHKO a majority of the tier bar Ferrothorn and Excadrill but that can be fixed up with Focus Blast. Subsitute is arguable a better choice over FBlast tho

 

[MythrilZenith]

While the terrain moves don't seem like too big of a deal, Misty Terrain being a universal safeguard + dragon resist for all grounded pokemon can be quite good. Same with Grassy Terrain giving leftovers healing to all grounded pokemon. So few pokemon can actually learn either of these moves, though, so it's give and take. Gogoat with its hidden ability seems to be the perfect pokemon for abusing grassy terrain, though. Possible doubles teammates?

Also, does anyone know how much damage Powder does? If it's a significant amount, and/or it prevents the fire move from going off, that might be something useful Vivillon can do.

As for typing, despite being defensively hurt, steel seems to be a great offensive type now, what with how many threatening pokemon have received the Fairy type now. It's the only thing that can really go toe-to-toe with Gardevoir and not boil down to a battle of who-hits-first. Steel+fairy is also a good typing, losing fairy's weaknesses and covering for steel's big fighting weakness. Mawile and Klefki are some of my new favorites thanks to this!

And is it just me, or has anyone else fallen in love with Power-up Punch? That move suddenly makes the seemingly underwhelming Mega Kangaskhan into one of my favorite megas (it's like a swords dance + double kick in one), though it's hard to argue with base 185 atk Skill Link heracross, or 105 Huge Power mawile.


*edit* sorry if this is off topic, but when will there be a gen 6 rate-my-team / pokemon build analysis thread? It's probably going to take awhile for a metagame to be established, and though I'm new to the competitive scene I'd like to try and get a leg-up on the competition, or at least see if the builds I've been messing around with could have any potential competitively.

 

[McDanger]

While the terrain moves don't seem like too big of a deal, Misty Terrain being a universal safeguard + dragon resist for all grounded pokemon can be quite good. Same with Grassy Terrain giving leftovers healing to all grounded pokemon. So few pokemon can actually learn either of these moves, though, so it's give and take. Gogoat with its hidden ability seems to be the perfect pokemon for abusing grassy terrain, though. Possible doubles teammates?

Also, does anyone know how much damage Powder does? If it's a significant amount, and/or it prevents the fire move from going off, that might be something useful Vivillon can do.

As for typing, despite being defensively hurt, steel seems to be a great offensive type now, what with how many threatening pokemon have received the Fairy type now. It's the only thing that can really go toe-to-toe with Gardevoir and not boil down to a battle of who-hits-first. Steel+fairy is also a good typing, losing fairy's weaknesses and covering for steel's big fighting weakness. Mawile and Klefki are some of my new favorites thanks to this!

And is it just me, or has anyone else fallen in love with Power-up Punch? That move suddenly makes the seemingly underwhelming Mega Kangaskhan into one of my favorite megas (it's like a swords dance + double kick in one), though it's hard to argue with base 185 atk Skill Link heracross, or 105 Huge Power mawile.


*edit* sorry if this is off topic, but when will there be a gen 6 rate-my-team / pokemon build analysis thread? It's probably going to take awhile for a metagame to be established, and though I'm new to the competitive scene I'd like to try and get a leg-up on the competition, or at least see if the builds I've been messing around with could have any potential competitively.

Ya that should go in the Q and A thread

TBH, i found mega heracross lackluster compared to other megas what are faster and can sweep easier. It also struggles to deal with common threats like talonflame and aegislash

Stall is far more usable and more enjoyable now from 5th gen, i think due to the increase in stall pokemon such as florges, as well as megas that can function with stall such as mega aggron and mega venusaur, while new threats like aegislash and talonflame helps limit the use of old threats like terrakion and keldeo, while the weather nerf makes weather offensive harder to do, limiting mindless offensive.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

I wasn't aware Chandelure got Infiltrator...
That's pretty cool now he's on par with Noivern in terms of Sub breakers. Though I question as to why Mega Gengar got Shadow Tag and Chandelure suddenly lost it, I mean Gengar is clearly the deadlier trapper but I don't know.

BTW guys how viable has Togekiss been this gen? I just though about breeding one. I know it's a good check to Garchomp because it gained the Fairy type making it immune to both of Garchomp's dual stab, but how is it fairing up in the OU metagame?

 

[LinksOcarina]

I wasn't aware Chandelure got Infiltrator...
That's pretty cool now he's on par with Noivern in terms of Sub breakers. Though I question as to why Mega Gengar got Shadow Tag and Chandelure suddenly lost it, I mean Gengar is clearly the deadlier trapper but I don't know.

BTW guys how viable has Togekiss been this gen? I just though about breeding one. I know it's a good check to Garchomp because it gained the Fairy type making it immune to both of Garchomp's dual stab, but how is it fairing up in the OU metagame?

I don't have one yet but from what I have heard and seen, its basically a Dragon counter that pretty much wipes the floor against dragon types. In terms of viability it seems like most of the chatter are favoring it for OU play, which I guess is not really surprising in the end. The biggest issue is that it now needs to deal with Steel Types by carrying fire blast more often than not against bullet punchers like Scizor and Metagross. Electric-types are also a problem still I believe.

So basically, wrecks Dragons, destroyed by Steels and Electric's and stealth rock issues still. Solid OU with support would be my guess in the end since it has enough bulk and move options to play around with its shortcomings.

 

[The Admiral]

Chandelure got Infiltrator? That's pretty cool, and probably better than either of its basic abilities. (not sure about Shadow Tag, but Chandelure is kind of slow and frail iirc so it could just be for naught if the opponent can one-shot it)

Steel's offensive buff is very much appreciated. I think that Technician Scizor/Mega Scizor will see a lot more play now, since Bullet Punch is super-effective against a decent amount more mons now.

Some of my friends have been speculating on Avalugg with Sturdy and Mirror Coat being a usable set (since it's been dug out that Bergmite can get Mirror Coat by breeding). Anyone have any opinion on it?

 

[Lion Demon]

I personally believe that Bisharp finally has the opportunity to shine in the higher tiers. Fairies are prevelant in the OU tier which Bisharp can slaughter no problem (except for Azumarill and MegaMawile), Steel is no longer resisited by Dark moves which makes Bisharp a successful counter to Aeigislash and Spider Web makes the most of Bisharps ability and speed doesn't really matter if the player uses Bisharps Sucker Punch the right way. Heck, it even scares MegaGengar!

 

[The Imposter]

I personally believe that Bisharp finally has the opportunity to shine in the higher tiers. Fairies are prevelant in the OU tier which Bisharp can slaughter no problem (except for Azumarill and MegaMawile), Steel is no longer resisited by Dark moves which makes Bisharp a successful counter to Aeigislash and Spider Web makes the most of Bisharps ability and speed doesn't really matter if the player uses Bisharps Sucker Punch the right way. Heck, it even scares MegaGengar!

Sucker Punch is extremely unreliable when stopping Mega Gengar. Namely because of Perish Song, Substitute, and Destiny Bond, all of which are moves that are commonly seen on Megagar now.

I do agree that Bisharp will likely be a good anti-meta Pokemon, but I want to explore another possibility: Drapion. It has great physical bulk, decent attack, good speed, and a variety of moves including TSpikes and Whirlwind. It fears Fighting types way less than Bisharp does, and with a Scarf set can checkmate Mega Gengar.

 

[The Admiral]

What is the fastest 'mon that is readily available can easily change an opponent's ability at the moment? Durant @Focus Sash + Entrainment seems to be okay for friendly games, but that seems really, really crappy for legit competitive.

I personally believe that Bisharp finally has the opportunity to shine in the higher tiers. Fairies are prevelant in the OU tier which Bisharp can slaughter no problem (except for Azumarill and MegaMawile), Steel is no longer resisited by Dark moves which makes Bisharp a successful counter to Aeigislash and Spider Web makes the most of Bisharps ability and speed doesn't really matter if the player uses Bisharps Sucker Punch the right way. Heck, it even scares MegaGengar!

A 4x weakness to Fighting still kinda makes me not think too highly of it. It's playable, yes, but Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave will probably one-shot it.

Drapion. It has great physical bulk, decent attack, good speed, and a variety of moves including TSpikes and Whirlwind. It fears Fighting types way less than Bisharp does, and with a Scarf set can checkmate Mega Gengar.

I have high hopes for Drapion. It's got a good variety of attacking types, Poison's been buffed, it has some great support moves, and it only has one weakness. Unfortunately, it's a pretty common one -- Ground. But It can deal with Mega Gengar, I'm sure.

 

[Lion Demon]

A 4x weakness to Fighting still kinda makes me not think too highly of it. It's playable, yes, but Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave will probably one-shot it.

Which is why you should have a Fairy Type or any other bulky Pokemon capable of taking a hit from those kind of moves. I mean, Volcarona was OU for Generation 5 and this is a Fire/Bug type in a tier that had Stealth Rock/Stone Edge + Earthquake/Rain Teams. Of course, you can argue that "Volcarona has Quiver Dance and Bisharp Swords Dance doesn't come close to that". But, this is a whole new tier: peoples "most probable" biggest concern is to be able to protect dragons and dark types like Garchomp/Tyranitar and especially Hydreigon from the recent Fairy types and Fairy attacks introduced and our good friend Bisharp is the solution to that (as a revenge killer at least).

Another interest competitive Pokemon is Malmar. I thought that it would be a complete monster with Superpower Contrary... until I seen that its stats are pretty fragile. It's a very gimmicky pokemon indeed. I mean, it could get boosts from Sticky Web and Intimidate but I highly doubt that will benefit it that much if it gets wiped out before it can strike.

 

[Puma Italia]

I wonder how Defog will impact the metagame. If it's popular enough, it could play a big role in how people build their teams.

 

[unresponsive]

Echoing talk about Drapion moving up. I used one in DPPt and it was amazing even then, now with Poison getting a boost I'm definitely getting one again.

What do you guys think about having one with Fell Stinger? It has decent speed that I think is often overlooked. Jolly with a base of 95 is not bad in my opinion. While it has Swords Dance I think picking off whatever the opponent has left is better suited.

 

[McDanger]

I have high hopes for Drapion. It's got a good variety of attacking types, Poison's been buffed, it has some great support moves, and it only has one weakness. Unfortunately, it's a pretty common one -- Ground. But It can deal with Mega Gengar, I'm sure.

Echoing talk about Drapion moving up. I used one in DPPt and it was amazing even then, now with Poison getting a boost I'm definitely getting one again.

Drapion wasn't good in DPP OU, i highly doute it`ll be OU this gen as it has to compete with better poisons like tentacruel and mega venusaur that provide similar team support, but also go further either with rapid spin, or actually being able to sponge attacks. Drapion is let down by its lack of recovery and will overall be subpar in OU, to much can do what it can better, mandibuzz is a better mega gengar/mega alakazam/ aegislash check, tentacruel and mega venusaur are better poisons. It may go up in tiers toward UU, but i doute much outside that.

I wonder how Defog will impact the metagame. If it's popular enough, it could play a big role in how people build their teams.

Defog is good with teams that need hazards removed such as sun teams, and i can say from experience, its a pain for stall. The biggest problem with defog is that it takes up a spot on pokemon that like what they have for sets such as skarmory and scizor.

I personally believe that Bisharp finally has the opportunity to shine in the higher tiers. Fairies are prevelant in the OU tier which Bisharp can slaughter no problem (except for Azumarill and MegaMawile), Steel is no longer resisited by Dark moves which makes Bisharp a successful counter to Aeigislash and Spider Web makes the most of Bisharps ability and speed doesn't really matter if the player uses Bisharps Sucker Punch the right way. Heck, it even scares MegaGengar!

Bisharp has always been good in higher tiers, tho its better now because breloom is now crap. This leaves special lucario its main check as far as priority goes, but thats the uncommon

 

[The Admiral]

Drapion wasn't good in DPP OU, i highly doute it`ll be OU this gen as it has to compete with better poisons like tentacruel and mega venusaur that provide similar team support, but also go further either with rapid spin, or actually being able to sponge attacks. Drapion is let down by its lack of recovery and will overall be subpar in OU, to much can do what it can better, mandibuzz is a better mega gengar/mega alakazam/ aegislash check, tentacruel and mega venusaur are better poisons. It may go up in tiers toward UU, but i doute much outside that.

Yeah, I guess that's reasonable. It could probably be powerful where it lands, though.

Another interest competitive Pokemon is Malmar. I thought that it would be a complete monster with Superpower Contrary... until I seen that its stats are pretty fragile. It's a very gimmicky pokemon indeed. I mean, it could get boosts from Sticky Web and Intimidate but I highly doubt that will benefit it that much if it gets wiped out before it can strike.

It's a cute gimmick, but none of its stats stand out to me. Also, its typing is mediocre imo. One immunity, one 2x weakness, one 4x weakness? That doesn't get me excited.

What do you guys think about having one with Fell Stinger? It has decent speed that I think is often overlooked. Jolly with a base of 95 is not bad in my opinion. While it has Swords Dance I think picking off whatever the opponent has left is better suited.

I don't think very highly of Fell Stinger at all, honestly. Unless you're going up against something with a 4x weakness.

 

[The Imposter]

Drapion wasn't good in DPP OU, i highly doute it`ll be OU this gen as it has to compete with better poisons like tentacruel and mega venusaur that provide similar team support, but also go further either with rapid spin, or actually being able to sponge attacks. Drapion is let down by its lack of recovery and will overall be subpar in OU, to much can do what it can better, mandibuzz is a better mega gengar/mega alakazam/ aegislash check, tentacruel and mega venusaur are better poisons. It may go up in tiers toward UU, but i doute much outside that.

I agree with the majority of these points, but to me Drapion in this metagame seems like more of an offensive pivot than anything. Sure, it doesn't get U-turn, but its ability to check a number of threats in this meta (Megas Gengar and Zam, practically every Fairy, and AEGISLASH) help it keep up momentum and keep the opponent on the defensive. Another thing to note as that none of the Poisons you mentioned can get past Megagar and Zam, while Mandibuzz can't muscle past Fairies. Drapion is one of the exclusive few who can perform both roles at once, making it an ideal anti-meta pivot.

Also, perfect coverage with its dual STAB and EQ.

 

[MythrilZenith]

One of my favorites right now is Azumarill, because the added Fairy typing gives it a better niche than just "wanna-be gyarados." Waterfall and Play Rough for STAB coverage, power-up punch for boosts and a steel counter, and either aqua ring for extra healing, or substitute for its powerful 101 subs. Maybe it's also because I randomly caught an Azurill with near-perfect IV's and it pretty much swept the game.

By the way, Mega Kangaskhan could be a great sub-breaker, thanks to double-hitting everything. Give it crunch to take down Gengar, earthquake for other steels like Mawile, return or dizzy punch, depending on if you want solid STAB damage or to abuse the double chance of confusion from 2 hits, and Power-up Punch makes the set. The only weakness it has is from pure fighting types that don't take super-effective damage from anything, and can outspeed its base 100, like Mienshao with HJK. Body slam works fantastic instead of return or dizzy punch, but can't be obtained in-game unless you transfer up all the way from Emerald or FR/LG.

 

[The Admiral]

One of my favorites right now is Azumarill, because the added Fairy typing gives it a better niche than just "wanna-be gyarados." Waterfall and Play Rough for STAB coverage, power-up punch for boosts and a steel counter, and either aqua ring for extra healing, or substitute for its powerful 101 subs. Maybe it's also because I randomly caught an Azurill with near-perfect IV's and it pretty much swept the game.

Azumarill has pretty decent defensive typing, if only because it has a decent number of resistances and its Water typing covers its Steel weakness -- and Steel is looking to be a major competitive attacking type.

By the way, Mega Kangaskhan could be a great sub-breaker, thanks to double-hitting everything. Give it crunch to take down Gengar, earthquake for other steels like Mawile, return or dizzy punch, depending on if you want solid STAB damage or to abuse the double chance of confusion from 2 hits, and Power-up Punch makes the set. The only weakness it has is from pure fighting types that don't take super-effective damage from anything, and can outspeed its base 100, like Mienshao with HJK. Body slam works fantastic instead of return or dizzy punch, but can't be obtained in-game unless you transfer up all the way from Emerald or FR/LG.

You can't even breed for Body Slam in fifth gen. Baww. I hope they changed that for XY, or intend to change it for Z/the "third version."