Official EV's, IV's, and DV's Discussion

[Shining Mew]

Here you can ask/talk about anything regarding EVs, IVs, and DV. What they are, how they affect your Pokemon, are they worth it, etc.


For more information on them, take a look at the main site.
EVs
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-rs/ev.shtml

IVs
http://www.serebii.net/games/ivs.shtml

DVs
http://www.serebii.net/games/dvs.shtml

TRJessie579 says: I am currently working on an EVs/IVs FAQ and guide that should hopefully answer all of the questions that are constantly asked in this thread every day. As soon as it's finished I'll close this one and put up the new one. Watch this space!

 

[leafgreen386]

Read this before/after reading the guides. It'll stop you from looking stupid.

OK. I had something typed up about this before in the Site Discussion section how these guides were messed up. Unfortunently, no one noticed it. I figure I may as well get in a post now while I can detailing each of these mistakes, perhaps saving some people the trouble of learning it wrong.

EV guide mistakes:

So, what are the limits? Well for starters, you can only gain 510 Effort Values before they will stop being counted. 510 can be called our "Overall Maximum", if you want a technical term. So this brings the Effort Points you can gain to 64, once again as a maximum. But this is still a bit much to add to any one stat, and it would make any Mewtwo have an absurd amount of Special Attack still, or Blissey still having that huge potential to go over 700 Hit Points (not like you still can't get there.) So, to make it limited still, there can only be a maximum of 255 Effort Points per stat, giving a pokemon a potential 32 point increase in any stat.

So now, in terms of pokemon you have to battle, let's say you want that Linoone to get its maximum speed. You would have to battle 255 Zubats to get to the maximum speed value; EV training for any more Speed will become useless if you choose to continue after 255

- Honestly, I have no idea what the first one is supposed to be, as there is nothing related to EVs that caps at 64, and everything else seems to be covered in the rest of the paragraph.
- That is a typo where it says "32 point increase." If you can do basic math you'd know it should say 63.
- You only have to battle 252 Zubats to max out your Spd in this example. Since the game rounds down, those last 3 EVs aren't going to influence your stat, although it is true that there is a limit of 255 EVs to a stat.

The reason that those extra proteins that couldn't be used on your ultra-tough Blaziken wouldn't work could be one of two reasons: 1. The stat is already maxed out on EV points, or 2. You already used ten proteins on the Blaziken.

This entire quote is rather misleading. Once a pokemon has 100 EVs in a stat, you can not use the vitamin corresponding to that stat, regardless of whether you've given it any already or not.

Suddenly that 255 becomes 64 pokemon that you have to battle to fill the Effort points up. Of course, the Pokerus doesn't appear that easily, so good luck trying to get it.

Once again, you only need 252 EVs to get the most benefit, and that is all. And that would become 63, not 64.

One last thing on EVs - Rare Candys. The so-thought dreaded item that doesn't boost your stats as high as if you took the time to level up. They usually accumulate in someone's box or are sold. Rare Candies, in reality, do not take EVs into account when the stats increase. They're still there, they just haven't been applied to the pokemon's stats yet. It's safe to use them after the Effort Points are full.

WRONG! The game is based on formulas. The Rare Candy edits one value in the stat formula - Level. Whenever your pokemon's stats are recalculated, it takes all changed values into account. Your stats, of course, are recalculated when you level up, so it would be foolish to assume that Rare Candies ignore EVs. However, this is also very irrelevant, as by the time you would want to use a Rare Candy, your pokemon would probably be in the high 90s anyway, and would be fully EV trained.

IV guide mistakes:

Say we have the mega-defensive bug type, Shuckle, and it's EV trained in both defense and special defense and it's at level 100, and a neutral nature. If we look at the base stats for this pokemon's defense and special defense, they both say 230, so you'd figure there wouldn't be much of a difference, right? Well, in reality, there can be a pretty wide difference. At level 100, this Shuckle has a defense stat that is 466, and a Special Defense stat equaling 542. Quite a wide difference there, about 80 points separated. A person using this Shuckle had better watch out for attack based moves if they are relying on defense.

OK. This isn't really a mistake, but rather something that just bugs me. You ALWAYS want to max out HP on Shuckle first (252 EVs), THEN assign the rest of its EVs to the defenses. That way you'll take a lower % damage from attacks.

Forretress 1:
Hit Point IV = ((Stat – Level Value - 10) * 100 / Level Value ) - 2 * BaseStat – Math.Floor(EV / 4)
Hit Point IV = ((121 – 43 – 10) * 100 / 43) – 2 * 75 – Math.Floor(0 / 4)
Hit Point IV = ((78) * 100 / 43) – 150
Hit Point IV = (7800 / 43) – 150
Hit Point IV = ~181 – 150
Hit Point IV = ~31

Wait, wait! It's 31, so that mean's it's perfect, right? Well in this case… no. It's not. If you look at Forretress 2's HP, it's 130, which is 9 points higher than this Forretress. It's a perfect example of when these equations can be inaccurate. The best thing you could do at this point is level it up further to get a bigger difference in the stats.

The IV guide isn't as populated with mistakes as the EV guide was, but this is just plain stupid. This person commited a mathamatical error here. Because last time I checked, 121 - 53 was 68, not 78. Of course, if you were observant you might have noticed that mistake yourself. This Forretress's HP IV is really only 9 (since when finding an IV you have to round up, but when finding a stat you have to round down). These formulas are as accurate as you can get, as they are exact same formulas used to calculate your stats, backwards.

DV guide mistake:

Of course if you want to influence it though, you will just have to go through a major breeding spree as there is no way to influence what nature you get really

This isn't really a mistake. It's just outdated. Back when this was written this held true. Now that Emerald's out, you can use the Everstone when breeding to influence what nature you get (as I'm sure all of you know, but I figured I'd mention it anyway).

Since I mentioned in the IV section that those are the same formulas as used in the game to calcucate your stats, but backward, I may as well post simplified versions of the actual stat increase formulas for those of you who are interested.

5 main stats:
[(2B + IV + EV)Lv/100 + 5]N

HP:
(2B + IV + EV)Lv/100 + Lv + 10

Now, the variables:
B = Base stat
IV = your Individual Value (duh)
EV = your EVs divided by 4, rounded down
Lv = Level
N = Nature value (1.1, 1.0, or 9.0)

*Note: Round down to the nearest whole number after dividing by 100 in both formulas, and also round down to the nearest whole number after multiplying by the nature value in the first formula (so 329.9 becomes 329).

 

[Whompithian]

How to Calculate Stat Increase at Level-Up

I had a post in the old EV/IV/DV Discussion thread that I believe is still relevant, since it answers a question I have seen asked a lot. So, here is the original post on how to determine how many points will be added to your Pokemon's stats when it levels up, with some minor changes:

To calculate Hit Points:
Math.Floor((BaseStat x 2 + IV + Math.Floor(NewEV / 4) + (Math.Floor(NewEV / 4) – Math.Floor(OldEV / 4)) x Level) / 100 + 1)

To calculate everything else:
Math.Floor((BaseStat x 2 + IV + Math.Floor(NewEV / 4) + (Math.Floor(NewEV / 4) – Math.Floor(OldEV / 4)) x Level) x NatVal / 100)

Here's the breakdown:

Math.Floor() - Ignore any decimal in the final result (i.e. 1.1 = 1, 1.5 = 1, 1.9 = 1, 2.1 = 2, etc.)
BaseStat - Your Pokemon's Base Stat for the stat (constant value.)
IV - Your Pokemon's Individual Value for the stat (constant value.)
NewEV - The current Effort Value of the stat (variable value.)
OldEV - The Effort Value of the stat at the beginning of the current Level (variable value.)
Level - The Pokemon's current Level (this equation determines how many points the stat will increase upon reaching the next level.)
NatVal - Nature Value; the effect the Pokemon's Nature has on the stat (constant value; 0.9 for lower, 1.0 for neutral, 1.1 for upping.)

Here's the logic:

Use this equation during Effort Training to determine if the training is on course. One may compare the results of this equation to the actual stat increase at level-up to determine if Effort Training is working as well as it should. One may create a simplified version of this equation for each stat once One has figured out the three constant values for that stat. Also note that because you may already have a high enough decimal value in your current stat MathFloor() may cause your calculated stat increase to be one lower than your actual stat increase.

(BaseStat x 2 + IV + Math.Floor(NewEV / 4)) x NatVal / 100
Gives how many points a Pokemon will gain when it goes up one Level with its current Effort Value. Not dividing by 100 at the end will give the maximum value the stat can reach at Level 100 with its current Effort Value.

(Math.Floor(NewEV / 4) – Math.Floor(OldEV / 4)) x Level) x NatVal / 100
Gives how many points a Pokemon will gain from the Effort Points it has earned in its current Level. Multiplying the newly earned Effort Points by the current Level calculates the effect these Effort Points have on Levels that were gained before the Effort Points were earned, from Level 0 (theoretical) to the current Level.

 

[thktanuki]

Ummm... the equation is kinda spiffy... but, I have been trying to spped train my charmeleon in the cave of origin. He is level 19 now, and holding the macho brace, but when he leveled up(after killing about 17 zubats) he only got a +2 to speed when he leveled up... What's the deal with that? I know he hasn't maxed out his ev's yet.

 

[TRJessie579]

Stat gain from EVs is added gradually as your Pokemon grows, not all at once. You won't see a big increase in your Zubat's stats, but it will all be added in there eventually.

That's what Whompithian's second equation is for--to determine how much stat gain from EVs you'll have at a particular level.

 

[thktanuki]

Oh... that explains it... thank you, I was a bit confuzzled.

 

[Kveran]

Maybe I'm just not awake yet, but I completely do not understand the section about gender values in the DV section on the main site. To read that section, it seems that all you have to do to get to Mirage Island is to have either a male or female Pokemon. More description is needed to state what effect gender actually has on the Pokemon's probability of triggering Mirage Island.

 

[leafgreen386]

You see my list of mistakes up there? I wrote up something like that for each and every one of the sections, and it was completely ignored in Site Discussion. I and a few others spent about a month bumping it before giving up, and now it has gotten so far back it has been pruned.

Nothing is going to change.

 

[Shadow Link]

Can anyone post the elite 4 pokemon EV's? Like EV's for each pokemon in leaf green's and sapphire's elite 4. i need to find out about how much sepperate EV each gives and which is better for my team. i prefer to get defense early.

 

[leafgreen386]

Uh... what are you talking about?

IIrc, the pokemon outside of the BF/BT/TT do not have any EVs when you fight them, though I may be wrong.

If you want to know what pokemon gives what EVs, you can find that on the main site.

 

[gregjammer]

Can anyone post the elite 4 pokemon EV's? Like EV's for each pokemon in leaf green's and sapphire's elite 4. i need to find out about how much sepperate EV each gives and which is better for my team. i prefer to get defense early.

(Without Macho Brace/pokerus):

R/S:

Sidney
Cacturne: 1 Attack EV, 1 Special Attack EV
Rest of the trainer’s pokemon: 2 EVs in Attack

Phoebe
Dusclops (x2): 1 Attack EV, 2 Special Def. EVs
Bannette(x2): 2 Attack EVs
Sableye: 1 Attack EV, 1 Defense EV

Glacia:
Glaie (x2); Sealeo (x2): 2 HP EVs
Walrein: 3 HP EVs

Drake:
Shelgon: 2 Def. EVs
Flygon (x2): 1 Attack EV, 2 Speed EVs
Altaria: 2 Special Def. EVs
Salamence: 3 Attack EVs

Steven:
Skamory: 2 Defense EVs
Armaldo: 2 Attack EVs
Metagross: 3 Defense EVs
Aggron: 3 Defense EVs
Rest of trainer’s pokemon: 2 Special Def. EVs

Fr/Lg (2nd Wave E4; the 1st wave can only be fought 1 time per save file, yet it’s before you get the ND and the plates quest that involves Island One’s Network Machine (the one that needs to be fixed in order to trade w/ R/S/E), so no need to state the 1st wave’s EVs anyway):

Lorelei:
Dewgong: 2 Special Def. EVs
Cloyster: 2 Defense EVs
Piloswine: 1 HP EV, 1 Attack EV
Jynx: 2 Special Attack EVs
Lapras: 2 HP EVs

Bruno:
Steelix (x2): 2 Def. EVs
Hitmonlee: 2 Attack EVs
Hitmonchan: 2 Special Def. EVs
Machamp: 3 Attack EVs

Agatha:
Gengar(x2): 3 Special Atk. EVs
Crobat: 3 Speed EVs
Misdreavous: 1 Special Attack EV, 1 Special Defense EV
Arbok: 2 Attack EVs

Lance:
Gyarados: 2 Attack EVs
Dragonite (x2): 3 Attack EVs
Aerodactyl: 2 Speed EVs
Kingdra: 1 Attack EV, 1 Special Attack EV, 1 Special Def. EV,

Rival:
Alakazam: 3 Special Attack EVs
Tyranitar: 3 Attack EVs
Exeggutor: 2 Special Attack EVs
Blastoise: 3 Special Defense EVs
Rest of trainer's pokemon: 2 Attack EVs

(/Without Macho Brace/pokerus)

 

[Shadow Link]

thanks. i'll think i'll help post EV training. so here are the Lone EV points gainable for the elite 4 (both games without macho brace/pokerus).

Ruby/Sapphire VS Fire Red/Leafgreen

HP

11 EV > 2 EV

Attack

17 EV < 22 EV (if Charmander is NOT choosen. otherwise its 20 EV)

Defense

7 EV > 6 EV

Speed

0 EV < 5 EV

Special Attack

0 EV < 13 EV (if Squirtle is NOT Choosen as starter. otherwise its 11 EV)

Special Defense

6 EV <(>) 7 EV (if Charmander's choosen as starter. Otherwise its 4 EV)

This is to use if you just want to train one EV. for example if you want a milotic you just want defense and not attack. so sableye is useless to you.

So it looks like FR/LG marginally wins. but beware because gary can really ruin your EV training if just following this guide.

 

[LLL]

Can i use rare candies after my pokemon have maximized EVs?

Well, that's a noobish question, but can someone answer it?

 

[leafgreen386]

You can use a Rare Candy anytime - even before you're fully EV trained, and it won't have any effect on final stats. But it's generally more effective to just save your Rare Candies for checking IVs or for later levels (90+), as that's when they'll have their most effect.

 

[gregjammer]

You can use a Rare Candy anytime - even before you're fully EV trained, and it won't have any effect on final stats. But it's generally more effective to just save your Rare Candies for checking IVs or for later levels (90+), as that's when they'll have their most effect.

However, if your pokemon's at Level 99 in some way, and still not fully EV-trained, and you give it some EVs to strengthen one of its stats, but you don't give it the maximum EVs that you can possibly get in that particular stat, then use a Rare Candy, and because using Rare Candies don't take any EVs you may have gained in that particular level, then your Pokemon's Level 100, but w/ bad stats for competitive battling because all EVs have to be gained before Level 100, plus w/ the Box Trick programmed not to work at Level 100, no wonder you can't use rare candies to elevate a not-fully-EV-trained pokemon w/o making its stats bad for competitive battling, and that's the deal for Pokemon at Level 100...

Conclusion: This formula determines Stat gains from Rare Candies, courtesy of Whompithian:

Hit Points:
Math.Floor((BaseStat x 2 + IV + Math.Floor(OldEV / 4) + (Math.Floor(Old EV / 4) - Math.Floor(Old EV / 4)) x Level) / 100 + 1)


Everything Else:

Math.Floor((BaseStat x 2 + IV) Math.Floor(OldEV / 4) + (Math.Floor(Old EV / 4) - Math.Floor(Old EV / 4)) x Level) x NatVal / 100)

If you used the Box Trick beforehand, refer to Whompithian's post for the answer, ok?

Breakdown:

Math.Floor() - Ignore any decimal in the final result (i.e. 1.1 = 1, 1.5 = 1, 1.9 = 1, 2.1 = 2, etc.)
BaseStat - Your Pokemon's Base Stat for the stat (constant value.)
IV - Your Pokemon's Individual Value for the stat (constant value.)
OldEV - The Effort Value of the stat at the beginning of the current Level (variable value.) If you used the Box Trick before using the Rare Candy, well, Whompithian can answer that question, because he is the original holder of the formula. Just wanted to add what the Formula would've looked like if a Rare Candy was used before your Pokemon is ever slated to have gained a Level due to Exp. Points acquired from battling...
Level - The Pokemon's current Level (this equation determines how many points the stat will increase upon reaching the next level.)
NatVal - Nature Value; the effect the Pokemon's Nature has on the stat (constant value; 0.9 for lower, 1.0 for neutral, 1.1 for upping.)

 

[Guy]

This might be hard to explain to you guys but... well, i was EV training my Starmie in Sp.Atk and Speed. I did Sp.Atk first, fighting a ton of Magnetons until i calculated that the EV was 252. It was gaining like 5 a level. Then i started on Speed. I fought some Picknicker dude who was said to give 12 Speed EVs. But when growing levels during that, the Sp.Atk per level dropped. Why?

 

[Whompithian]

This might be hard to explain to you guys but... well, i was EV training my Starmie in Sp.Atk and Speed. I did Sp.Atk first, fighting a ton of Magnetons until i calculated that the EV was 252. It was gaining like 5 a level. Then i started on Speed. I fought some Picknicker dude who was said to give 12 Speed EVs. But when growing levels during that, the Sp.Atk per level dropped. Why?

This happens once a stat is no longer gaining Effort Points between levels. If you work out the equation in the third post it explains why this is. If you don't feel like doing the algebra, I'll try to explain. You must understand that 252/4 is the number of points your Sp. Atk EV will add to the stat at Level 100. But before you did the training, 0/4 was the number of points your Sp. Atk EV would have added to the stat at Level 100. That means that your Pokemon started gaining levels with an EV boost to Sp. Atk of 0/4/100=0 points (divide by 100 to get the boost per level). Once you completed EV training Sp. Atk you were earning a boost of 252/4/100=.63 points per level. But, the game needed to figure out how many points you had earned for levels before you had those Effort Points, so it gave you that .63 point boost for each level your Pokemon had risen without the Effort Points (this is a gross generalization, since it is almost certain that you didn't earn all 252 Effort Points in a single level). So, during your training, you got large boosts to the stat and then the stat boost settled to a number that was at most 1 higher than usual after your Effort Training was complete. If you beleive this explanation was long and complex, you are right. EVs, IVs and DVs are a complex, unavoidable aspect of Pokemon.

 

[Guy]

OK i get it. thanx.

 

[SlwaBluPhnx]

Well, my poke has pokerus and macho brace. Does it still gets 4 EV if I switch?

 

[Powerful_Blaziken88]

Say we have the mega-defensive bug type, Shuckle, and it's EV trained in both defense and special defense and it's at level 100, and a neutral nature. If
we look at the base stats for this pokemon's defense and special defense, they both say 230, so you'd figure there wouldn't be much of a difference, right? Well, in reality, there can be a pretty wide difference. At level 100, this Shuckle has a defense stat that is 466, and a Special Defense stat equaling
542. Quite a wide difference there, about 80 points separated. A person using this Shuckle had better watch out for attack based moves if they are relying on defense.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Back up.
For level 100, neutral nature and fully EV trained, the range for those 2 stats is 528 to 559, not 466 to 542. That one looks more like you gave defense no EVs as well as it having a bad IV.

And DragonAtreides, yes you will still gain 4× the usual amount of EVs if you switch.