Official Favorite "Series" Thread 2.0

[PokemonNation2000]

Creepy, and certainly flaming, but that's what made him such an enjoyable character.

Agreed-- remember when he cross-dressed as May? I laughed so hard at that.

 

[HoundoomFan]

I agreed, those are some of reasons i really liked Original eries the best too.

I liked how there was more comedy,passion and originality pit in pokemon story treating itn like anbime which doesmnpt stagnae but further things forward. I enjoyed more in character interaction,anime sticked less with games having unpredictable anime exclusive plots not adding so many game elements like later sagas did.
Group of Ash,Misty and Brock played out very well having good dynamic and worth of gold(in my opinion) interaction.Battles were good though not to same level like they were later on (understandable considering animation and writing has changed) and i liked in this anime early days how there was more Japanese culture added into this anime with anime having that feeliong of pokemon(magic) it started losing later on.

About Misty i don't think she was selfcentered and selfish though. Maybe abrasive and rough in her exterior, but that was mostly because of negative experiences in her childhood. She and older siblings were abandoned by parents at very young age. Misty was constantly bellitled and degraded by others around her, especially her sisters like she is "useless runt which has no qualities". Someone who is "uglier, less skilled in battling, elegant and successful than they are". Being often understimated and questioned about her talent, skills in battling or resolving various dangerous situations by others.

This left negative infliuence on Misty character feeling need to build tough, robust exterior front to hide her scared, insecure side of character. Not wanting to show dependance on others or that she needs anyone help growing up fastl Because of having to learn how to take care of herself and be selfreliant.
But with time after growing attached to Ash and Brock gaining more faith in them, she started to gradually open sharing her fears and dreams with Ash and Brock. Became more compassionate and understanding for her friends often supporting Ash, helping him to get out of his depression streak and through criticism and questioning of his ego helped him to become stronger person and trainer. Which Ash started to appreciate. Helped Brock about his love problems, comforted him aboiut being rejected by other girls or leaving pokemon behind like Vulpix. Taking care of him when he was sick,when Ash and Tracey got poisoned.Etc.

Or understanding others like Sakura knowing hows to like to live in shadow of your older siblings.
Maturing and becoming more confident over time gaining faith in her qualities as person and becoming highly attached to her friends, Being very upset in having to leave them by end of Johto developing in more patient, responsible and independent person.

Yes she can be abrasive, hotheaded and sometime rude but thats part of her personality being strongwilled person which is tough and dont let others to put her down, outspoken not being afraid to act when its needed and competitive, selfsufficient encouraging others to do same dealing with problems rather than curling up in corner and selfpity themselves(which imo is positive side to her).But she is also very loyal, caring and imo unselfish as person being very good friend.

Well I think Misty's bossy & self centered side mostly showed when she isn't getting her way like when Ash didn't want to borrow her pokemon to fight Bock she got upset & left. Also in Princess Vs. Princess she kinda made Ash & Brock let her borrow their pokemon (they only gave them to her to calm her down & because they were fearful of her at the time) I admit it was nice that it was nice for Misty to try & help Ash during his Brock fight, but she should have understood where Ash was coming from instead of getting angry at him cause he's not doing things her way. Also the whole thing with pulling Brock's ear is kinda controlling, though Brock doesn't seem to mind it much (& was mostly used for comic relief).

I will admit that she did get to get some good character development later on, but that wasn't really shown until AG, which I did like to see that she did mature quite a bit. But for the most part I'm mostly talking about her in the original series (seasons 1-5, though less for the Johto seasons) where I find her really irritating. It irked me how she criticized Ash and just get angry. I think Gary was enough for Ash to grow & strive to get better from (and he got most of his drive and determination to get better came more from him than Misty imo), and Brock gave Ash criticism without sounding condescending or superior like with Gary & Misty (except for maybe at the beginning when Ash was trying to get his first badge for Brock). It was almost like she was belittling Ash when she did like that one time when she was saying Ash didn't catch most his pokemon (& I think she was also saying most his badges weren't earned as well along with other things). While true, the way she said it was what irked me. While I understand why the way she was, but it was irritating that for the most part she was shown as hot-headed, being a know-it-all (the whole hopeless romantic side really helped with this, like when she tried to get those kids together with the Nidoran & in the episode "The Heartbreak of Brock" she basically told him get with this girl or you will be forever alone), and pushy, with showing little to no good parts for most episodes during that time (mostly in seasons 1 & 2). Mostly, it's just characters like that that really make it hard to enjoy the show for me no matter their background.

But overall, I do appreciate & agree that she was able to get some good character development. Because along with Gary she probably did got the most character development in the show and they both became pretty neat characters. Not saying she was a bad or a badly written character, it was more of she was hard to stand for me, and since she was in every episode, I had to deal with it.

 

[CyberCubed]

I'm surprised by that too. I guess now that BW has ended people are focusing their hatred on that instead.

@CyberCubed: How could you take Harley seriously. He was a grown man in his twenties who dressed up as pokemon and also crossdressed as a 10 year old girl. He was also so petty, hating on a 10 year old because she didn't know much about his pokemon. He was too absurd to be believable. Ursula was a much better antagonist because she never tried nor wanted to be Dawn's friend. She wouldn't even admit Dawn was better. Harley did everything he could to ingratiate himself to May just like the coward he is.

Zoey did not often lose onscreen. She lost to both May and Fantina. But we know she also lost a bunch of contests off screen so she wasn't portrayed as being all powerful. And if you want to talk about godlike Mary Sues, what about Solidad? She came in knowing everybody, she was friends with everybody, and then went on to lay a beat down on May before claiming the championship. Can't get any more Mary Sue than that.

That's what made Harley interesting. Why would you not prefer a unique character over the same cookie-cutter rivals the writers rehash every series? Harley was the most memorable non-Ash rival of the series because of everything he did and how funny he was. He had amazing pokemon too that was a nice change of pace from all the cute or girly pokemon we usually see in Contests.

Zoey started off beating Ash/Dawn in the first Contest, and then goes into god mode for the rest of the saga. It got to the point where you couldn't get interested in where dawn/Zoey's rivalry would go because it didn't develop past their first interactions. The fact that the writers felt we didn't need to see Dawn beat Zoey before they left the show says enough. Zoey could have been a lot more interesting character wise.

As for Solidad the reason I'm not saying anything is because she is a league rival like the others so of course she wasn't as interesting. She had a nice design though.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

The Original Series is my favorite, and no, I don't think Johto is anywhere close to as awful as Sinnoh was or Kalos is right now, but I will admit it was the weak link of the Original Series. That said, it still had excellent episodes there amidst the pointless filler episodes, and the English dub of Pokemon generally peaked in quality during the Johto Era for me, which helped a lot to get through the filler episodes.

Second favorite is Advanced Generation, but I loved Hoenn, while Battle Frontier was the weak link in that Series to me, though even that was okay despite horrible episodes like "Strategy Tomorrow--Comedy Tonight!" being there as well.

I hated Diamond and Pearl with a passion: it made me gain a whole new appreciation for Johto I never had before. I ended up pretty much only watching this saga for Dawn and just to see if Ash was going to accomplish his goal, which he didn't. Brock became a truly horrible character this arc of the Anime, sadly, and Team Rocket pretty much became flanderized shells of their former selves.

I thought Black and White/Best Wishes! was okay: this pretty much sealed Ash's fate of being doomed to be an eternal loser for me, but it was nice to see him get enthusiastic again, if becoming too stupid for his own good at the same time for me. I did like Iris and Cilan a lot, actually, despite the former's annoying "such a kid/Kodomone" phrase and the latter's food centered speech, because they were pretty interesting to me with their goals, especially Iris. Team Rocket was godly this Saga after the crap they were in Diamond and Pearl, if a little lacking in distinct personalities aside from Meowth.

I hate XY with a passion as well, even more than I did Diamond and Pearl: Ash is alright but there's nothing new to see at all from him-- nothing truly distinct or unique from him at all, I like Clemont, but I detest Team Rocket, I find Bonnie very annoying and irritating, while finally I can't really stand how inactive Serena is in the group and she's just a little too keen on Ash for my tastes.

 

[AdrenalinDragon]

The Original Series is my favorite, and no, I don't think Johto is anywhere close to as awful as Sinnoh was or Kalos is right now, but I will admit it was the weak link of the Original Series.

Agreed. None of the seasons are perfect, but one thing that annoyed me in Johto was Misty's Togepi being completely wasted, like not making it evolve or something, as it pretty much did nothing for 150 episodes. I actually think it contributed more in Orange Islands than the whole of Johto.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

Agreed. None of the seasons are perfect, but one thing that annoyed me in Johto was Misty's Togepi being completely wasted, like not making it evolve or something, as it pretty much did nothing for 150 episodes. I actually think it contributed more in Orange Islands than the whole of Johto.

You're right there: I definitely can't deny that.

 

[chalkus]

So Dwail, you hate Sinnoh because of Brock and Team Rocket? Those characters had been redundant since AG, so I don't get why that is a fault against Sinnoh. There are plenty of things Sinnoh did better like pokemon and contest battles that more than made up for it.

That's what made Harley interesting. Why would you not prefer a unique character over the same cookie-cutter rivals the writers rehash every series? Harley was the most memorable non-Ash rival of the series because of everything he did and how funny he was. He had amazing pokemon too that was a nice change of pace from all the cute or girly pokemon we usually see in Contests.

Zoey started off beating Ash/Dawn in the first Contest, and then goes into god mode for the rest of the saga. It got to the point where you couldn't get interested in where dawn/Zoey's rivalry would go because it didn't develop past their first interactions. The fact that the writers felt we didn't need to see Dawn beat Zoey before they left the show says enough. Zoey could have been a lot more interesting character wise.

As for Solidad the reason I'm not saying anything is because she is a league rival like the others so of course she wasn't as interesting. She had a nice design though.

Yeah Harley was different but that is not a good reason to like him. He made no sense. Why was he so hot and bothered by a ten year old? Why did he dress up as a pokemon? Why did he dress up like a ten year old girl? Perhaps if he spent half as much time training as he did all that juvenile and petty nonsense he might have done better in the Grand Festival than he did. Just being different for the sake of being different doesn't make him interesting.

And wasn't Zoey older than Dawn. Plus she was trained by a gym leader (Miss Senior). And she had already taken part in 3 contests before Dawn did one. She seemed far more capable than Dawn was in the beginning so it makes sense she would also get the victory over her.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

So Dwail, you hate Sinnoh because of Brock and Team Rocket? Those characters had been redundant since AG, so I don't get why that is a fault against Sinnoh. There are plenty of things Sinnoh did better like pokemon and contest battles that more than made up for it.

Yeah, Brock and Team Rocket really killed DP for me, honestly-- just truly awful there, IMO. I mean, worse than ever before, though apparently XY TR has managed to out suck DP TR in my book at this point.

While I agree TR got redundant since around (?) mid-AG, there's still redeeming things to Team Rocket in AG that I never saw in DP, like "A Poached Ego," "Sweet Baby James," "The Ole Berate and Switch," "A Scare to Remember," "Time Warp Heals All Wounds," etc.

Brock...well, let's just say that in my eyes he had a lot more going for him in AG than he did in DP as well like "Sharpedo Attack," "From Cradle to Save," "A Mudkip Mission," "Pinch Healing," "What I Did for Love," etc.

Sinnoh did handle the Pokemon better, I'll give you that.

The Contest Battles...honestly, I felt they were too redundant as we'd already seen them in AG, though.

 

[Pokemaniac24]

Team Rocket were mostly becoming tired and stale by mid-Johto for me actually so I don't even take them into account when judging a saga because they were such non-entities for me. I mean, yeah, they sprinkled with good moments here and there, but there was no question they started becoming stale very early on. Diamond and Pearl did have a terrible incarnation of TRio, but that wasn't enough for me to knock DP down because it did several things better than most sagas: Team Galactic and Hunter J were two of the shows better villains, Dawn's Contest arc (up until the Wallace Cup particularly) was one of the most exciting arcs for any companion Ash had ever travelled with, the battles were at their best, the development of the Pokémon was very well done, Paul was one of the best rivals in the series. I mean, yes, there were some very uninteresting fillers, Brock and TRio weren't living up to their former glory days, and not all of the rivals were handled that well, but I still see it as one of the anime's better arcs for sure.

 

[OfCorsola]

For me it's Kanto>Hoenn+BF>Johto>Sinnoh>Kalos>Unova
I really liked Johto and all, but Hoenn was more interesting and had some cool plots.
I literally only like DP because of Dawn and the side characters like Paul,Conway, Zoey, Barry, etc.
Hoenn has my favorite ALL TIME rival and that's Drew..I really liked Harley he's funny, hoenn was just a great arc in general. Despite some if it's fillers

 

[Shiny-Psyduck]

It's a tie between Kanto and Hoenn for me. I just enjoyed the character interactions in Kanto and the addition of contests in Hoenn made the series more interesting even if May's houdini escapes in same of theme were poorly written imo.

 

[AquaMilotic]

For me, Kanto, Orange Islands and Johto is number one, without a doubt. I have my reasons for it, and those are not nostalgic. First of all, OS has way more emotion than newer sagas, in my opinion. The emotional way Butterfree got released in "Bye Bye Butterfree", or even smaller moments like Ash feeling guilty about coming up with excuses in "Challenge of the Samurai", or Charizard starting to respect Ash in "Charizard Chills"... I believe the newer sagas lack emotion. Watching those just gives me the feeling like I'm watching a long commercial, while OS truly feels like an actual story.

Another reason for loving OS is the humour. Ash joking about Cowterpie, that Kanghaskan kid asking Misty a naughty question about her breasts (in the original, not the dub), "Tom Ato", "Ann Chovy", "Ceasar Salad", Pikachu's obsession with ketchup and other jokes like that aren't there anymore in later sagas.

The storyline in newer sagas often follows the games very strictly. OS has more storylines that aren't game-like, think about the Whirl Cup and the Orange Islands season. I prefer originality over strictly following the games.

I also enjoy how Brock got a bit more focus than in AG and DP. I also feel like the OS main character group has more chemistry than the other sagas's main character groups. Brock was left out of the group dynamic in AG and DP. In AG, Max somewhat took his role over with his PokeNav and knowledge, while in DP, the writers just focused on Ash and Dawn while pretty much ignoring Brock most of the time.

As a Misty fan, I'm extremely biased, but her being there also made my enjoyment of OS even bigger. And along with Misty, there was PokeShipping, my OTP.

And the last point I'm going to bring up will sound strange to many people here: the battles. I don't think the battles in newer sagas are as good as most people think they are. Many DP battles have a pattern: Ash and the opponent battle until both have one Pokemon left, Dawn asks Brock about something Ash has trouble with (usually a game mechanic or ability), Ash finds a way to overcome it and wins. The OS battles might not always be the most logical, but at least they're spectacular and not formulaic. They just feel less game-like, something I value a lot.

 

[Soniman]

wow what is this for a forum that hates on gen IV a lot we finally get sinnoh winning at something it's nice to see that as I absolutely loved fourth generation and everything about it. I'm gonna assume it's because he was the closest to winning a league to this day.

Just chalk that up to Vocal Minority, just look at the poll results and see who's in first place.

 

[AdrenalinDragon]

Just chalk that up to Vocal Minority, just look at the poll results and see who's in first place.

This is the only place I've seen Diamond and Pearl getting any praise so far. On TV.com for example, Diamond and Pearl was getting bashed to bits and was considered the worst saga in most of the reviews, so I always assumed everyone hated it for a very long time.

 

[CyberCubed]

This is the only place I've seen Diamond and Pearl getting any praise so far. On TV.com for example, Diamond and Pearl was getting bashed to bits and was considered the worst saga in most of the reviews, so I always assumed everyone hated it for a very long time.

To be fair most of those people are probably basing it on the dub. Had 4kids continued to dub DP, or if you watched DP in Japanese, its much better. Granted Brock is still pointless in DP no matter which way you watch it in, but it has a number of highpoints.

 

[Pokemaniac24]

DP is great if you watch Ash's badge quest, the Ash/Paul rivalry, Dawn's contest quest (particularly the episodes where she loses the first appeal round to when she wins the Wallace Cup), and the TG/Hunter J stories. A lot of it is very skippable, though. Most of the fillers are very uninteresting IMO. Though, you do get the occasional "Malice in Wonderland" and Summer Academy Arc, which are good.

 

[AdrenalinDragon]

To be fair most of those people are probably basing it on the dub. Had 4kids continued to dub DP, or if you watched DP in Japanese, its much better. Granted Brock is still pointless in DP no matter which way you watch it in, but it has a number of highpoints.

In defence to Diamond and Pearl, the negative reviews were not too long after the dubbing happened, so alot of people probably couldn't get used to the drastic voice changes at the time. However, it seems the "Brock being pointless" problem still holds up though.

 

[CyberCubed]

In defence to Diamond and Pearl, the negative reviews were not too long after the dubbing happened, so alot of people probably couldn't get used to the drastic voice changes. However, it seems the "Brock being pointless" problem still holds up though.

The problem is DP is where Team Rocket and Brock's running gags finally became unbearable. They were still OK back in AG, even if it was a step down from the original series...but by the time DP started it was ridiculous.

It's kinda sad because Brock and Team Rocket used to be legitimately funny in the early seasons, so seeing them run into the ground was just painful for the characters. Brock really should have left when the Battle Frontier saga ended at the latest.

 

[PokemonNation2000]

In defence to Diamond and Pearl, the negative reviews were not too long after the dubbing happened, so alot of people probably couldn't get used to the drastic voice changes at the time. However, it seems the "Brock being pointless" problem still holds up though.

The voice changes were and are still extremely jarring to this day for me (granted I got used to them, but every time I watch an episode from Seasons 1-8 nowadays I just go "Wow, these voices actually do fit the characters' ages and them in general, these scripts don't suck and I can understand what Team Rocket is saying most of the time, these intros and endings are actually decent..." and I realize how good we used to have it). I think all the older staff was much better fit for their roles, really. The current English dub is a big reason why I can't stand Ash and Team Rocket these days in general: not going to lie. It also doesn't help with all the horrible lines of dialogue they give them in the TPCi dub, and let's not even get started on the intros/endings/dub BGM decline.

Then, we have the writing in TPC JPN that is horrendous for TR and pretty average for Ash, and that's the nail in the coffin.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

It's kinda sad because Brock and Team Rocket used to be legitimately funny in the early seasons, so seeing them run into the ground was just painful for the characters. Brock really should have left when the Battle Frontier saga ended at the latest.

How does replacing someone falling in obscurity benefit characters and people which like, care about them though?

It only generates frustration, disappointment over your favorite being forever gone, with any potential to explore more on past, his personality, background and dreams ending wasted and sweeped under the carpet.

Nevertheless im not sure if i understand why every time character is handled poorly only replacing is viewed as remedy?
Why not for a change keep him and try to fix mistakes. Retrieve appeal and charm he used to have, expand more on his own story, career and interest injecting substance into character. And introduce fresh new subplots, issues from past which werent resolved or brought up much, alongside new passions and traits helping to revitalize his presence and become worthwhile again. Thus being given fair chance to get fixed and back on right track in living up to his full potentia.

Its more rewarding both for fans and character rather than discarding him like trash. Because one saga of poor handling doesn't mean writers cannot do better job with character in future. Feeling myself how Brock was more active, got more development and expansion on his interests in Hoenn compared to Johto.

With Brock presence and interchangeable, unforced dynamic with rest of cast, many memorable moments, competitions he entered, cool pokemon he caught there and showing some growth in becoming better caretaker, breeder being one of reasons why i liked AG/Hoenn saga. Increasing continuity and connection to past generations feeling like pokemon anime is still treated as continuous story which uses past as groundwork on which new plots are built and developed going forward.