Official Metagame Updates and Discussion Thread

Because the 5th gen is still new, everyone is testing new stuff and stradegies, the metagame is shifting and changing really fast, and therefore, I decided to make this thread for us to update any new changes to the tiering system, from either Smogon or Pokemon Online, and we can discuss those changes.

So, here are the changes to the metagame done until this time:
Smogon:
~ Inconsistent was banned from standard play.
~ Darkrai, Deoxys-A, Deoxys-N, and Shaymin-S were banned.
~ Inconsistent was banned in LC.
~ Drizzle + Swift Swim is banned, but Drizzle alone can still be used.
~ Manaphy is banned from OU.

Pokemon Online: (As for PO, I only know the recent changes, because I wasn't there at the beginning of gen 5. Only started to join recently, since my computer was broken. So can you guys help me post the sooner changes, ok?)
~ Latios was banned from UU.
~ Inconsistent was banned from LC.
~ Drought Vulpix was banned from UU and LC.
~ Shadow Tag Shandera is test banned in one month time, from January 19th 2011 to February 19th 2011.
~ Mew, Deoxys, and Latias was banned from UU.

Pokemon Online usage stats can be found here: http://91.121.73.228/index.html

Also, can someone sticky this thread? I think this stuff is really important as tiering is the most important part to us competitive players. Thanks a lot.

And finally, and most importantly, DO NOT TURN THIS THREAD INTO A PLACE TO ARGUE WHEREVER PO TIERS OR SMOGON TIERS IS BETTER.

Thank you very much guys.

 

Very good idea. I'm going to go ahead and sticky this so people will see it. Just make sure to stay on topic when posting in here.

 

Inconsistent was almost just like Accupressure, which they banned because of the + Evasion. And with it being x2 instead of x1.5, and no need to set up, just kill it already.

Happy days. If Smogon bans Sleep, I suppose it would be possible for Darkrai to come down to OU. Useless ability, Useless Signature move. Deoxys, and Shaymin belong in Ubers. Deoxys formes fill many roles, and while Shaymin, mostly as a revenge killer, is frail, Seed Flare > Serene Grace just makes it broken.

I don't play LC often, this doesn't effect me. In fact, I completely forgot LC pokemon had Inconsistent.

First part, good. Second Part, bad. Drizzle + Swift Swim is broken, by far, but Drizzle alone makes Nattorei and Forretress only stronger and more difficult to beat. Scizor will continue to run rampart through the metagame.

Good. +3 SpA was broken enough. Hydration + Rest just cuts the line. Vaporeon shouldn't be banned, since Manaphy has greater stats in general, and a +3 boost. Vaporeon can't hit hard like that, and all it gets is walling oppurtunities.

First post before our (friendly?) neighborhood mod.

Comments in bold.

 

Thats what Smogon banned. Drizzle + Swift Swim on the same team. Drizzle is still ok, as is Swift Swim. Just not together.

That ban is why I prefer Smogon OU over PO.

 

Yeah I know. I'm saying Drizzle even without swift swim only makes certain threats more threatening.

I was trying to say Rain has to be banned entirely.

 

Just to note that the Pokemon Online decided to open a poll for people to vote for Shandera being stayed in Dream World OU or banned to Ubers. The poll will close on this Friday, 25 February, and as soon as I got the result, I'll update it immediately. See more details or vote yourself here: http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/sho...A-final-Decision-Regarding-Tier Shandera Vote .

 

Ok guys, the vote is over, and Shadow Tag Shandera was voted to STAY in Dream World OU. This is annoying, I wanted that thing gone so bad -.-

 

Yeah, I hate that guy. It's too irritating when your opponent has a Pokemon who is almost guaranteed to kill something of yours.

Also, I saw the PO had a tier called LU. Anyone know what that's about?

 

LU is the new tier that Pokemon Online created, refers to "Little Used". It's basically a tier between UU and NU or you can say a banlist for NU, but the NU tier hasn't been created yet, so this is NU atm. This tier is based on usage stats, and the cut-off between UU and LU is 3%. Borderline is also created after some suspect time. Here is the list of these tiers:

Spoiler: Borderline:

Deoxys
Deoxys-S
Kyurem
Latias
Mew
Vulpix

Spoiler: Dream World Underused:

Abomasnow
Ambipom
Arcanine
Azelf
Azumarill
Blastoise
Bronzong
Chansey
Cinccino
Claydol
Clefable
Cofagrius
Cresselia
Crobat
Deoxys-D
Donphan
Durant
Dusclops
Emboar
Feraligatr
Froslass
Gallade
Galvantula
Goruggo
Heracross
Hihidaruma
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Honchkrow
Kirikizan
Kobaruon
Kojondo
Ludicolo
Mamanbou
Mamoswine
Mandibuzz
Milotic
Mismagius
Nidoking
Quagsire
Raikou
Registeel
Rhyperior
Roserade
Rotom
Sceptile
Scolipede
Shaymin
Shubarugo
Sigilyph
Slowbro
Spiritomb
Suicune
Terrakion
Venomoth
Victini
Virizion
Walrein
Weavile
Whimsicott
Xatu
Yanmega

Spoiler: Wifi Underused:

Abomasnow
Alakazam
Altaria
Ambipom
Arcanine
Azelf
Azumarill
Bisharp
Blastoise
Bronzong
Chansey
Charizard
Claydol
Clefable
Cofagrius
Crobat
Darmanitan
Deoxys-D
Donphan
Drapion
Durant
Dusclops
Dusknoir
Empoleon
Espeon
Escavalier
Flygon
Froslass
Gallade
Golurk
Heracross
Hippopotas
Hitmontop
Houndoom
Krookodile
Ludicolo
Mamoswine
Mandibuzz
Mienshao
Milotic
Mismagius
Nidoking
Porygon2
Porygon-Z
Raikou
Registeel
Rhyperior
Roserade
Rotom-H
Sceptile
Sigilyph
Slowbro
Snorlax
Spiritomb
Staraptor
Steelix
Suicune
Swellow
Tangrowth
Terrakion
Toxicroak
Uxie
Venomoth
Venusaur
Virizion
Weavile
Weezing
Yanmega

And LU is everything that doesn't belong to Ubers, OU, BL and UU.

Oh, and I use English names.

 

you forgot to mention that LU is complete rubbish

 

No, it's not. It's a tier. And it's fun to play with, like every other tier.

 

Murkrow has been banned for a while on the PO LC Sever btw, their process is so rushed imo.

 

I agree with this, I also think that smogon's system of banning is a bit too strict, as they all seem a bit ban happy, and are always on a crusade to ban something, the process smogon uses is efficient, but it could be quicker.

 

Ok new Pokemon Online updates:
- Whimsicott and Ludicolo dropped to Dream World UU this month.
- Blissey, Lucario, Swampert, Togekiss and Venusaur became Dream World OU.
- Charizard, Espeon and Ludicolo dropped to Wifi UU.

And yeah, PO is REALLY rushing on their process on the tiering system, their tiers changes every month. But somehow I like the dynamic changes of PO, they makes the metagame always unstable and hard to predict. Anyway, I just play Uber so that I can never be affected by these complicated metagame stuff. lol

 

I couldn't give the slightest **** about what happens with UU/LU/NU since they will develop into their own metagames and are based off usage stats anyway.

What I'm more interested in is the ongoing Shandera debate (no, its not over just because of one vote). The way things are going Shandera will be voted on again in a ~month but this time with ladder voting requirements. I suggested 1400 since thats reasonably difficult to achieve for bad / average players but PO is community based (as in everyone gets a say in bans) so I'd expect something more like 1300 is more likely.

Either way I'm voting it Uber. I broke 1500 easy with 6 random sweepers in Wifi so assuming Dream World is similar I should get voting rights.

 

So -only- Shadow Tag Chandelure is banned? Is that correct?

You can still use Flash Fire in UU? (Cause that's what I was gonna do anyhow, lol.)

Sorry for the noob question, haha.

 

Shadow Tag Chandelure is currently NOT banned from Dream World OU, but a second-round vote is coming. And no one gives a damn about Flash Fire variant.

 

Update from PO: After some suspect time, Azelf is banned from UU, and Chansey is in a testing period.

 

Since this hasn't been updated I'll just post here saying that at Smogon Murkrow was banned in LC, Brightpowder/Lax Incense was banned, and Blaziken has been banned in OU.

Also note that Latios and Deoxys-S were both voted uber by simple majority so they will automatically be suspects next round.

 

Huh? Why's that?