Official New and Improved General Shiny Thread

[Bolt the Cat]

...

I am in complete shock here.

So I'm going through X trying to find Pokemon to transfer to OmegaRuby to complete my National Dex, and I go to Rt. 3 looking for a Dunsparce. After about 15-20 minutes of searching, I get a Shiny Litleo. All right, I have the Shiny Charm and I've had a ton of shinies in X thanks to the Friend Safari, so that's a nice bonus. Not 5 minutes later I find the Dunsparce and move on to Rt. 8 looking for Qwilfish and boom, Shiny Clauncher. Did I have a stroke or something? I mean I've had a lot of success with shinies in X because of the Friend Safari and again, I do have the Shiny Charm. But 2 shinies in 5 minutes by random encounter? Even with the Shiny Charm the odds of that happening are astronomical.

 

[Genos]

Back at it again with two new shines from max raids.

Spoiler

So far my shiny luck in Sw/Sh has been in max raids. I never had this much encountering in any other Pokemon games.

 

[Everlasting]

I just phased on my current Y hunt with a shiny Scraggy popping out of a horde.

I'm very displeased with how often I run into hordes. I had a feeling this would happen! Ah well, what can I do. It came after only 343 REs (I don't tally horde encounters, so add about 30 of 'em) which is scary quick. Well, hopefully next phase something native to the Kalos region will shine. I won't count any shiny towards my Y BQ if it isn't from the 6th generation. I will say, Scraggy's shiny in 3D is beautiful! Love the saturation of the colors.

Onto phase 2!

 

[willprogresivo]

Can someone confirm for me if it's true that in Gen VII, eggs are predetermined when the parents are deposited? I decided to let off some steam the other day, kept on going and bow I've hatched nearly 4000 Ralts eggs and no shiny. To me, if the game predetermines a chain of eggs and the egg number n will be shiny, that literally means all eggs before it have a 0% chance of being shiny, not 1/512 (or 1/683 in my non-charm case) for each egg. If each egg had a 1/683 chance at generation (when the girl is holding an egg), it'd be extremely bad luck not to have a shiny in 4000 eggs. Not asking for 8, or 6 or even 2. Just 1. Most people online claim to have a shiny in less than 500 eggs. Really?

If the game does pick a predetermined number, that number could easily be 190903 and I'm jusy wasting my time.

If I remove both parents from the daycare, and redeposit them, would the chain be determined again? I think I should have done that earlier.

 

[Kansas_Rocks!]

Yes, Gen 7 eggs are predetermined. Smogon has a good article on it. You can actually find out where you are in your egg seed by doing a few specific things. The shininess is determined by your trainer shiny value and the eggs shiny value. They can't be determined without third party software. I know there is a reddit community that can get you your trainer shiny value. There are just some times where your shiny frames, even while Masuda methoding and with a shiny charm are far away, and each egg advances the seed in a slightly different value, so you may skip your shiny seed without even knowing.

This Smogon article explains it. This method of egg hatching uses a simple RNG reporter, but does not require a hacked game to see all egg stats.
https://www.smogon.com/ingame/rng/sm_egg_rng_part1#:~:text=Additional%20resources-,Introduction,is%20relatively%20quick%20and%20forgiving.

 

[Drake Pokétrainer]

Can someone confirm for me if it's true that in Gen VII, eggs are predetermined when the parents are deposited? I decided to let off some steam the other day, kept on going and bow I've hatched nearly 4000 Ralts eggs and no shiny. To me, if the game predetermines a chain of eggs and the egg number n will be shiny, that literally means all eggs before it have a 0% chance of being shiny, not 1/512 (or 1/683 in my non-charm case) for each egg. If each egg had a 1/683 chance at generation (when the girl is holding an egg), it'd be extremely bad luck not to have a shiny in 4000 eggs. Not asking for 8, or 6 or even 2. Just 1. Most people online claim to have a shiny in less than 500 eggs. Really?

If the game does pick a predetermined number, that number could easily be 190903 and I'm jusy wasting my time.

If I remove both parents from the daycare, and redeposit them, would the chain be determined again? I think I should have done that earlier.

The eggs themselves aren't predetermined. What the user above me is saying that every save file has its shiny value and every egg has its shiny value, if they match up you hatch a shiny. So if you can determine the value of an egg and trade it to someone who has the same value, your egg will hatch shiny on that person's file while it won't on yours.

That said, the game does store the shiny values after a reset. Let's say you save your game, hatch 30 more eggs and reset. Your next 30 eggs will have the same shiny value, regardless of the fact that you might switch out the pokemon in the daycare. The gender also stays the same if the gender ratios match up.

That means, if you hatch for an instance, a lot of Magikarp eggs (takes the least amount of steps to hatch) and you hatch a shiny 40 eggs after your last save, reset your game and put a Ralts in the daycare instead, you'll be guaranteed to hatch a shiny Ralts after 40 eggs, with the same gender as the Magikarp.

In the rare instance that the egg the day care lady is actually holding at the moment of your save is a shiny, you can refuse the egg and its values will transfer to the next generated egg, so you can't actually miss out on a shiny by refusing the egg.

I used this method a ton during gen 7, especially to hunt pokemon that require a lot of time to hatch, it saves a ton of time.

Also, hatched a shiny Clauncher after 878 eggs, next hunt's Hawlutcha.

 

[Kansas_Rocks!]

The eggs themselves aren't predetermined. What the user above me is saying that every save file has its shiny value and every egg has its shiny value, if they match up you hatch a shiny. So if you can determine the value of an egg and trade it to someone who has the same value, your egg will hatch shiny on that person's file while it won't on yours.

That said, the game does store the shiny values after a reset. Let's say you save your game, hatch 30 more eggs and reset. Your next 30 eggs will have the same shiny value, regardless of the fact that you might switch out the pokemon in the daycare. The gender also stays the same if the gender ratios match up.

That means, if you hatch for an instance, a lot of Magikarp eggs (takes the least amount of steps to hatch) and you hatch a shiny 40 eggs after your last save, reset your game and put a Ralts in the daycare instead, you'll be guaranteed to hatch a shiny Ralts after 40 eggs, with the same gender as the Magikarp.

In the rare instance that the egg the day care lady is actually holding at the moment of your save is a shiny, you can refuse the egg and its values will transfer to the next generated egg, so you can't actually miss out on a shiny by refusing the egg.

I used this method a ton during gen 7, especially to hunt pokemon that require a lot of time to hatch, it saves a ton of time.

Also, hatched a shiny Clauncher after 878 eggs, next hunt's Hawlutcha.

No, the eggs are in essence pre determined. You have some change, but the egg seed that you generate after your first egg pickup determines the shiny value, the nature, the inherited IVs, the game determined IVs, and the ability of every egg frame afterward is already determined.. If the parent has a hidden ability some of the egg frames after are force changed, but everything else is the exact same. If a parent has a destiny knot, the three extra inherited stats will always be the same, no matter the parent. So everything that the game calculates is predictable enough to be considered predetermined.

I used the RNG reporter used on the article I attached earlier to help me guarantee a flawless shiny speed boost Torchic, a shiny Hidden Power Fire Treecko, and a shiny flawless Mudkip. By you saying that the shiny value is predetermined, every other thing that the game calculates for is predetermined.

 

[Drake Pokétrainer]

No, the eggs are in essence pre determined. You have some change, but the egg seed that you generate after your first egg pickup determines the shiny value, the nature, the inherited IVs, the game determined IVs, and the ability of every egg frame afterward is already determined.. If the parent has a hidden ability some of the egg frames after are force changed, but everything else is the exact same. If a parent has a destiny knot, the three extra inherited stats will always be the same, no matter the parent. So everything that the game calculates is predictable enough to be considered predetermined.

I used the RNG reporter used on the article I attached earlier to help me guarantee a flawless shiny speed boost Torchic, a shiny Hidden Power Fire Treecko, and a shiny flawless Mudkip. By you saying that the shiny value is predetermined, every other thing that the game calculates for is predetermined.

Oh huh, I was told that after several resets they don't stay shiny anymore. Not that I've tried testing that, the only time I resetted more than once was when I tried getting a shiny female Nidoran (it's gender determination seems to be different than those of other species), so I never tried testing if there was a limit.

 

[Kansas_Rocks!]

Plus, if you want to just continue with the Magikarp route, the game generally gives the player a cluster of shiny frames right around each other. You can't get two eggs in the same shiny frames cluster, but you can refuse an egg you know will be shiny to advance the frame by 1 and nearly always guarantee the next egg you pick up will be shiny. That way if the first one has some IVs you don't like or is the wrong gender for your liking, you can see if the next egg has better stats or the other gender.

Ex: egg 25 is a shiny, but is a male and has a bad Atk IV and you want a special attacker.
Reset. Accept 24 eggs. Reject egg 25. Accept egg 26.

26 is almost definitely shiny but everything else should be slightly different because it was on a different egg frame.

 

[willprogresivo]

So the whole masuda method and shiny odds are false in gen 7. If the egg what will be shiny is say 137, that literally means there is 0% chance any of the 136 eggs before are shiny. That's just not how it's supposed to be. If I save the game with 2 parents in daycare before the girl is holding an egg, I should get a different egg, each with a 1/683 chance of shiny, every time after SR. That's not true.

I did waste my time then. As far as I know, my shiny could be tens of thousands away still. What a dumb decision.

 

[Kansas_Rocks!]

So the whole masuda method and shiny odds are false in gen 7. If the egg what will be shiny is say 137, that literally means there is 0% chance any of the 136 eggs before are shiny. That's just not how it's supposed to be. If I save the game with 2 parents in daycare before the girl is holding an egg, I should get a different egg, each with a 1/683 chance of shiny, every time after SR. That's not true.

I did waste my time then. As far as I know, my shiny could be tens of thousands away still. What a dumb decision.

No, its not useless. The Masuda Method will recalculate each shiny chance again. In general, it makes it to where the cluster of shiny frames is larger, so its easier to hit.

Think of it this way. Each thing that can be determined by the egg has been prerolled, you just have to put all the things together. Each egg frame has been rolled by the game already as both Masuda Method and non Masuda Method, and so whichever form of breeding you use to try to get the shiny will still change your odds.

In my experience, Masuda method will sometimes change random egg frames to your shiny value, but in general will make the shiny frame clusters larger so they are easier to hit.

 

[willprogresivo]

I'm not following you. Are the eggs predetermined or not? If they are, then there is 0% chance of eggs being shiny before the egg that has actually been predetermined to be shiny. That's just how it works. It's my understanding that this wasn't the way it worked in Gen 6.

 

[Kansas_Rocks!]

I'm not following you. Are the eggs predetermined or not? If they are, then there is 0% chance of eggs being shiny before the egg that has actually been predetermined to be shiny. That's just how it works. It's my understanding that this wasn't the way it worked in Gen 6.

It's a little more confusing than predetermined, I guess. With the terminology that the creator of the RNG tool I linked above, each egg frame is predetermined for every different way the egg could be bred once you collect the first egg on the save file. Each egg you receive advances the egg frame by a seemingly random value of 20 to 40, and refusing an egg advances it by one. I say seemingly random because it can be predicted. Because of this seemingly random frame increase, you can potentially accidentally skip over a shiny egg frame, as even with the best odds, the clusters of shiny frames are around 8 large.

The first sentence of that statement is what is important to your question. The easiest way to see it is that there are four full predetermined sets of egg values that will be pulled from depending on what you are doing. They are:

Non MM, non Shiny Charm
MM, non shiny charm
Non MM, shiny charm
MM, shiny charm

I hope this explains it a little better.

 

[willprogresivo]

I don't understand a single things you just said, but then again, and not thru any fault of your own, I don't care. Thank you anyway for trying to explain it.

All I know is that I either failed a 1/683 chance 3870 times in a row, or I skipped over "the shiny frame" so many times I missed the shiny egg over and over again.

However it actually works: it sucks. People have bred 20 shinies in the time I bred 0. I hatched all these eggs while binging Mythbusters, now I can fully pay attention to the show I guess.

 

[Kansas_Rocks!]

I don't understand a single things you just said, but then again, and not thru any fault of your own, I don't care. Thank you anyway for trying to explain it.

All I know is that I either failed a 1/683 chance 3870 times in a row, or I skipped over "the shiny frame" so many times I missed the shiny egg over and over again.

However it actually works: it sucks. People have bred 20 shinies in the time I bred 0. I hatched all these eggs while binging Mythbusters, now I can fully pay attention to the show I guess.

If I were you, I would go through the steps listed in the Smogon article that I listed to see where you are in your egg seed and go from there. I went from not hatching one shiny to hatching nearly a box of shinies in a week with the help of my other three gen 7 games and the one i was breeding on. It allowed me to get the torchic I had been looking for for nearly 15 years.

 

[willprogresivo]

Thanks man, but I'll pass. Using third party software to analyze the hidden code is, as far as I'm concerned, cheating. Might as well just Pkhex the shiny.

I fully believe this is a combination of my really bad luck and an absolutely terrible system that should't be. Shiny odds worked fine in Gen VI as I'm lead to believe, and sounds like Gen VIII works as well. This just a dud in the game development imo and it's not really my fault, so I quit.

I'm starting a fun Platinum run, I'm done with USUM.

 

[WishIhadaManafi5]

Well I just checked what I got in a Wonder Trade on Pokemon Home, and I got two shiny Pokemon. One being a Suicune and the other a Flygon. I'm pretty sure they are hacked. I thought Nintendo was trying to get rid of stuff like this? I guess it's harder to detect and justify what's legit and hacked.

Did you post their stats and info on the hack check thread? It couldn't hurt, just to double check on them.

 

[WishIhadaManafi5]

There's a thread for that? Can you by chance tell me where I can find it?

Yep. Here you go.

https://forums.serebii.net/threads/...e-hack-checking.497187/page-615#post-19040700

 

[Drake Pokétrainer]

Well I just checked what I got in a Wonder Trade on Pokemon Home, and I got two shiny Pokemon. One being a Suicune and the other a Flygon. I'm pretty sure they are hacked. I thought Nintendo was trying to get rid of stuff like this? I guess it's harder to detect and justify what's legit and hacked.

Thing is, if their stats, location of origin, ability and movepool is legit, there's no way to tell if they're hacked or not. Unless it's something like a mythical that can't be shiny/an otherwise shiny locked legendary where the OT and ID don't match the shiny events.

 

[Drake Pokétrainer]

Hawlucha shone after only 96 eggs so that was a super fast hunt. Next one's Klefki and after that Bunnelby, then I'll have all gen 6 final evolutions shiny that can be hunted in gen 8 so far, at least until the Crowned Tundra releases.

Also, I'm gonna try to do an effort to complete Ultra Moon. I still need to hunt the version exclusive legends in there and it bugs me to have several legendary sets not completely shiny. I still need Latias, Kyogre, Palkia, Regigigas, Thundurus, Zekrom and Yveltal shiny and they kinda are a thorn in my eye when I watch my shiny checklist cause I have the others of their set shiny but not them.