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~ Official Pokémon News Discussion Thread ~ [POST POKEMON NEWS HERE]

  • Thread starter Deleted member 11515
  • Start date

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
As I remember, it happened to gen 5 (600+) where people complain "there are too many of them now", but somehow people keep coming back for more. I don't mind getting more mons, but expanding too fast is not good. It might create a barrier of entry for new fans or people just don't want to play it anymore because it's getting boring; no player regeneration + older players dropping the game = dying franchise.

50-100 + megas every 4-5 years seems reasonable.
150-200 + megas every 2-3 years sounds desperate

My point is not mainly about the number, but how long until we reach the number itself.

They started slowing down the number of new Pokemon, so that's not a problem. It'll probably be several generations before we reach 1000 at this point. The number of Megas might slow down eventually as well if they find they're burning through them too quickly.
 

OptimusZygarde

Butterfly fanatic
Zygarde is obviously the 3rd version foil to Xerneas and Yveltal for several reasons, other than the fact their names all start with the "X, Y, Z" alphabetical pattern.

- Xerneas controls life, Yveltal controls death, and life/death is all part of the ecosystem cycle, which is what Zygarde is supposed to be fixing once it goes awry.

- He has gotten the same exact treatment in X/Y that Rayquaza, Giratina, and Kyurem had before they got their own games that revolved the plot around their respective Trio's.

- Zygarde's ability Aura Break is obviously meant to counter X's and Y's Aura abilities much like how Rayquaza's Air Lock ability cancels out Groudon and Kyogre's.

- Zygarde also has 2 unreleased moves that are clearly meant to go against Xerneas and Yveltal(Thousand Waves for Xerneas, Thousand Arrows for Yveltal), along with a low BST of 600 compared to Xerneas and Yveltal's 680. Please, explain to me how the so-called "ecosystem protector of Kalos" is supposed to handle a couple of Legendaries who's current BST's outmatch Zygarde's? That's right, he can't. He needs a power boost through a form change. Cue the CoroCoro silhouette we've seen... reports of green pulsating hexagons on its body from movie viewers is almost one of the final nails in the coffin for that one.

For Gen 6's completion as a whole, we still have several loose ends that can very well be addressed(Anistar Sundial? Hoenn VS Kalos Mega-orgins? Infinite Energy? The existence of alternate realities, and Zinnia's backstory? Anything else I'm missing?), and we still have Volcanion that needs to be officially revealed and then released to the public.
 

Chaos Rush

Well-Known Member
People have been complaining about the amount for a while, just as they've been complaining that GameFreak has run out of ideas or other such things. There will always be people that complain, but as long as there are sales, the complaints don't matter.
Problem is, sales are declining, so it's not like the validity of the complaints should be entirely dismissed.

Pokémon Red/Green/Blue: 31.38
Pokémon Yellow: 14.64
Pokémon Gold/Silver: 23.10
Pokémon Crystal: 6.39
Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire: 16.22
Pokémon FireRed/LeafGreen: 12.00
Pokémon Emerald: 6.32
Pokémon Diamond/Pearl: 17.63
Pokémon Platinum: 7.60
Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver: 12.72
Pokémon Black/White: 15.60
Pokémon Black 2/White 2: 8.52
Pokémon X/Y: 13.85
Pokémon Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire: 9.94 (as of March 2015)

Pokémon Red/Green/Blue/Yellow: 46.02
Pokémon Gold/Silver/Crystal: 29.49
Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald: 22.54
Pokémon FireRed/LeafGreen: 12.00
Pokémon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum: 25.23
Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver: 12.72
Pokémon Black/White/Black 2/White 2: 24.12
Pokémon X/Y: 13.85
Pokémon Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire: 9.94 (as of March 2015)

Generation I: 46.02 million
Generation II: 29.49 million
Generation III: 34.54 million
Generation IV: 37.95 million
Generation V: 24.12 million
Generation VI: 23.79 million (as of March 2015)

Listed by order of highest-selling Generations:
1. Generation I (46.02 million units)
2. Generation IV (37.95 million units)
3. Generation III (34.54 million units)
4. Generation II (29.49 million units)
5. Generation V (24.12 million units)

As of March 2015, the combined sales of X/Y and OR/AS is 23.79 million units. Of course, when the last Gen VI game(s) comes out, Generation VI will definitely surpass Generation V sales (heck, it might have already done so as of today). But on average, 'third version' games sell approximately 8.694 million units (note that I counted B2/W2 into this average, but B2/W2 sold more units than Platinum, Emerald, and Crystal did on their own), which would mean that the total Gen VI sales could end up around 32 million units, which would mean that Gen VI overall is going to be less popular than Gen I, IV, and III were during their respective lifespans.

Now, the highest-selling releases for each Generation is consistently the first paired-release. Let's look at specifically those numbers:
Red/Green(JP) & Red/Blue(rest of the world): 31.38 million
Gold/Silver: 23.10 million
Ruby/Sapphire: 16.22 million
Diamond/Pearl: 17.62 million
Black/White: 15.60 million
X/Y: 13.85 million

Because the initial paired versions are always the highest-selling games of their generation, and each successive Generation's initial paired version sells less than the previous Generation (with Diamond/Pearl being the sole exception), I think it's safe to say that, yes, sales of core Pokémon titles are declining. Perhaps Gen VI's sales could also be partially blamed on the 3DS's smaller install base when compared to the DS, but personally I don't think that's the sole reason. Now, I am not accusing any aspect of the Pokémon games themselves, I am merely pointing out that Pokémon sales are indeed declining, and if complaints for the series are increasing while sales are declining, assuming Game Freak cares about the falling sales, then yes, complaints do matter and Game Freak needs to consider options to increase popularity of the series again. Pokémon may never be as popular as it was in Gen 1 or even Gen 2, but I'd say Gen 4's popularity is a healthy level to sustain.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
then yes, complaints do matter and Game Freak needs to consider options to increase popularity of the series again.

The problem here is that everyone is pushing their own complaint as an agenda in this regard, claiming everything from too many Pokémon to "lazy designs" to "not enough postgame content" to "there wasn't a Battle Frontier!" to countless other complaints that are basically just noise. Not that you are doing this - you specifically point out that you aren't - but these are what people are complaining about and on which they are legitimately blaming the decline. That's the disconnect - people are trying to place blame on everything BUT the things that matter.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Problem is, sales are declining, so it's not like the validity of the complaints should be entirely dismissed.

Pokémon Red/Green/Blue: 31.38
Pokémon Yellow: 14.64
Pokémon Gold/Silver: 23.10
Pokémon Crystal: 6.39
Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire: 16.22
Pokémon FireRed/LeafGreen: 12.00
Pokémon Emerald: 6.32
Pokémon Diamond/Pearl: 17.63
Pokémon Platinum: 7.60
Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver: 12.72
Pokémon Black/White: 15.60
Pokémon Black 2/White 2: 8.52
Pokémon X/Y: 13.85
Pokémon Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire: 9.94 (as of March 2015)

Pokémon Red/Green/Blue/Yellow: 46.02
Pokémon Gold/Silver/Crystal: 29.49
Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald: 22.54
Pokémon FireRed/LeafGreen: 12.00
Pokémon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum: 25.23
Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver: 12.72
Pokémon Black/White/Black 2/White 2: 24.12
Pokémon X/Y: 13.85
Pokémon Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire: 9.94 (as of March 2015)

Generation I: 46.02 million
Generation II: 29.49 million
Generation III: 34.54 million
Generation IV: 37.95 million
Generation V: 24.12 million
Generation VI: 23.79 million (as of March 2015)

Listed by order of highest-selling Generations:
1. Generation I (46.02 million units)
2. Generation IV (37.95 million units)
3. Generation III (34.54 million units)
4. Generation II (29.49 million units)
5. Generation V (24.12 million units)

As of March 2015, the combined sales of X/Y and OR/AS is 23.79 million units. Of course, when the last Gen VI game(s) comes out, Generation VI will definitely surpass Generation V sales (heck, it might have already done so as of today). But on average, 'third version' games sell approximately 8.694 million units (note that I counted B2/W2 into this average, but B2/W2 sold more units than Platinum, Emerald, and Crystal did on their own), which would mean that the total Gen VI sales could end up around 32 million units, which would mean that Gen VI overall is going to be less popular than Gen I, IV, and III were during their respective lifespans.

Now, the highest-selling releases for each Generation is consistently the first paired-release. Let's look at specifically those numbers:
Red/Green(JP) & Red/Blue(rest of the world): 31.38 million
Gold/Silver: 23.10 million
Ruby/Sapphire: 16.22 million
Diamond/Pearl: 17.62 million
Black/White: 15.60 million
X/Y: 13.85 million

Because the initial paired versions are always the highest-selling games of their generation, and each successive Generation's initial paired version sells less than the previous Generation (with Diamond/Pearl being the sole exception), I think it's safe to say that, yes, sales of core Pokémon titles are declining. Perhaps Gen VI's sales could also be partially blamed on the 3DS's smaller install base when compared to the DS, but personally I don't think that's the sole reason. Now, I am not accusing any aspect of the Pokémon games themselves, I am merely pointing out that Pokémon sales are indeed declining, and if complaints for the series are increasing while sales are declining, assuming Game Freak cares about the falling sales, then yes, complaints do matter and Game Freak needs to consider options to increase popularity of the series again. Pokémon may never be as popular as it was in Gen 1 or even Gen 2, but I'd say Gen 4's popularity is a healthy level to sustain.

You're opening up a huge can of worms here. Thing is, sales numbers tell you a lot about what's popular and what isn't, but by themselves it's difficult to tell the reason why. More than likely the decreasing sales have nothing to do with what the games are doing, it's because the target audience is migrating away from Nintendo's handhelds to mobile devices. But there's too many factors involved to tell for sure without survey data.
 

Excitable Boy

is a metaphor
it could just as easily be the install base; outside of Pokemania, DS outsold GBA outsold 3DS
 

Chaos Rush

Well-Known Member
Of course, install base needs to be taken into consideration. So here's the top-six selling games for each handheld. This time my source is Wikipedia; my source for the other post was the Video Game Sales Wiki, so the numbers are different for Gen 1 (probably due to some name confusion between JP Red/Green, JP Blue, and worldwide Red/Blue)

Game Boy/Game Boy Color:
1. Tetris (35)
2. Pokémon Red/Blue (23.64)
3. Pokémon Gold/Silver (23)
4. Super Mario Land (18.06)
5. Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins (11.09)
6. Pokémon Yellow (8.86) (note according to VGSWiki, it sold higher than Super Mario Land 2)

Game Boy Advance:
1. Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire (16.22)
2. Pokémon FireRed/LeafGreen (11.82)
3. Pokémon Emerald (6.32)
4. Mario Kart: Super Circuit (5.91)
5. Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2 (4.179)
6. Super Mario Advance (3.938)

Nintendo DS:
1. New Super Mario Bros. (30.79)
2. Nintendogs (23.96)
3. Mario Kart DS (23.56)
4. Brain Age (19.01)
5. Pokémon Diamond/Pearl (17.63)
6. Pokémon Black/White (15.58)

Nintendo 3DS:
1. Pokémon X/Y (13.85)
2. Mario Kart 7 (11.7)
3. Super Mario 3D Land (10)
4. Pokémon Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire (9.94)
5. New Super Mario Bros. 2 (9.16)
6. Animal Crossing: New Leaf (8.94)

Okay, so I guess I spoke too soon when I said "Pokémon sales are declining". It's technically true but that's only because handheld sales are declining. And when the install base is taken into consideration, there is a higher percentage of 3DS owners that bought X/Y than the percentage of DS owners that bought Diamond/Pearl, so I guess Game Freak shouldn't be worried about sales then! But since handheld sales have declined (most likely due to smartphones), it makes me wonder how Nintendo will combat that. Will they continue to decline, or will the decline stop once it reaches a certain low?
 

Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
Which are showing your bias. "The way I see it" explicitly sates you are biased, because you are only taking into account how you see things.

No it is not. I am not bias and it is you with the others that are bias. I have never shown bias and never will. Gen 6 is done until proven otherwise.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
No it is not. I am not bias and it is you with the others that are bias. I have never shown bias and never will.

It is not terribly helpful to your case that it's been explained to you repeatedly how none of this is logical or unbiased and yet you continue to bullishly post this.

Gen 6 is done until proven otherwise.

This especially could not possibly be more wrong or further away from how anything actually works.
 
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Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
It is not terribly helpful to your case that it's been explained to you repeatedly how none of this is logical or unbiased and yet you continue to bullishly post this.

What I am saying is logical and unbiased. I see evidence against potential new games. After the disaster with ORAS, it would be better to move on to the next gen. I don't appreciate the rudeness either.
 

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
1. Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire (16.22)
3. Pokémon Emerald (6.32)

Wow, R/S outsold Emerald by 10 million units? Since R/S were so much more popular than Emerald, I'm surprised by how much moaning was caused by the exclusion of Emerald features in OR/AS.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
What I am saying is logical and unbiased.

It is the antithesis of both.

I see evidence against potential new games.

No, nothing you've said is evidence, particularly as you can't separate your own opinions from reality, as especially evidenced by statements like:

After the disaster with ORAS, it would be better to move on to the next gen.

I don't appreciate the rudeness either.

No one here is being rude to you. You aren't being called names, sworn at or insulted personally. All that's happening is that people are telling you - repeatedly - that the ideas you're forcibly trying to put forth are built on tissue-thin subjectivity and little else.

Again, statements like "Gen 6 is done until proven otherwise" and "After the disaster with ORAS, it would be better to move on to the next gen" are built solely - solely, entirely, completely and totally - upon your opinion and nothing else, making your continued claims of being logical and unbiased even more difficult to take at any sort of face value.
 

Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
It is the antithesis of both.

I disagree with that. Also I can't believe Ruby/Sapphire sold more than Emerald. Emerald was better than the pair and it is also better than ORAS. That is some messed up logic and I am not changing my mind or opinion on the next games.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
Of course, install base needs to be taken into consideration. So here's the top-six selling games for each handheld. This time my source is Wikipedia; my source for the other post was the Video Game Sales Wiki, so the numbers are different for Gen 1 (probably due to some name confusion between JP Red/Green, JP Blue, and worldwide Red/Blue)

Game Boy/Game Boy Color:
1. Tetris (35)
2. Pokémon Red/Blue (23.64)
3. Pokémon Gold/Silver (23)
4. Super Mario Land (18.06)
5. Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins (11.09)
6. Pokémon Yellow (8.86) (note according to VGSWiki, it sold higher than Super Mario Land 2)

Game Boy Advance:
1. Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire (16.22)
2. Pokémon FireRed/LeafGreen (11.82)
3. Pokémon Emerald (6.32)
4. Mario Kart: Super Circuit (5.91)
5. Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2 (4.179)
6. Super Mario Advance (3.938)

Nintendo DS:
1. New Super Mario Bros. (30.79)
2. Nintendogs (23.96)
3. Mario Kart DS (23.56)
4. Brain Age (19.01)
5. Pokémon Diamond/Pearl (17.63)
6. Pokémon Black/White (15.58)

Nintendo 3DS:
1. Pokémon X/Y (13.85)
2. Mario Kart 7 (11.7)
3. Super Mario 3D Land (10)
4. Pokémon Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire (9.94)
5. New Super Mario Bros. 2 (9.16)
6. Animal Crossing: New Leaf (8.94)

Okay, so I guess I spoke too soon when I said "Pokémon sales are declining". It's technically true but that's only because handheld sales are declining. And when the install base is taken into consideration, there is a higher percentage of 3DS owners that bought X/Y than the percentage of DS owners that bought Diamond/Pearl, so I guess Game Freak shouldn't be worried about sales then! But since handheld sales have declined (most likely due to smartphones), it makes me wonder how Nintendo will combat that. Will they continue to decline, or will the decline stop once it reaches a certain low?
Is this counting the digital sales?


Wow, R/S outsold Emerald by 10 million units? Since R/S were so much more popular than Emerald, I'm surprised by how much moaning was caused by the exclusion of Emerald features in OR/AS.
Why are you surprised? The third version usually sells less bc a huge amount of people already bought the first versions and they do not want to pay for a game that is really similar to one they already own. That doesn't mean the fans didn't like the improvements, it just means that some ppl can't buy every game they want, so they either wait until the "improved" version comes out or buy the first versions bc they do not want to wait.
 
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Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
Why are you surprised? The third version usually sells less bc a huge amount of people already bought the first version and they do not want to pay for a game that is really similar to one they already own. That doesn't mean the fans didn't like the improvements, it just means that money doesn't grow on trees and we can't buy every game we want, so you either wait until the "improved" version comes out or you buy the first version bc you do not want to wait.

Oh I was just a little shocked since given Emerald's hoopla, I thought its sales would be much better than 6 million units, that's all. :p
 

Chaos Rush

Well-Known Member
I disagree with that. Also I can't believe Ruby/Sapphire sold more than Emerald. Emerald was better than the pair and it is also better than ORAS. That is some messed up logic and I am not changing my mind or opinion on the next games.
Of course Emerald sold less. 'Third version' titles always sell less because they're essentially just re-releases to the casual gamer. For hardcore fans (like I'm assuming the majority of us here, since we're on a Pokémon forum), third versions mean something different to us, but to the casual fan, it's hard to justify a 'third version' purchase when the gameplay is essentially unchanged from a game you already have. Not to mention Emerald came out after R/S and FR/LG and the release of the DS, I think by 2005 plenty of GBA owners have had their GBA RPG fix and saw little need for another Pokémon RPG when there's already been two releases on that platform with the exact same gameplay.

I think a good analogy would be like, say if in 2007 HAL decided to release Mother 3.1 which is essentially Mother 3 but with new enemies, a couple new locations, a few new sidequests, and slightly more balanced gameplay. Chances are, only hardcore fans or people who missed out on the original would buy it, and the majority of buyers of the original game aren't going to buy the slightly updated game, because what would be the point? That's what the 'third-version' titles are to the paired versions, just slightly updated titles to cater to the more-dedicated fans, and/or people who missed out on the paired versions, and most importantly, to simply make more money.
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
What I am saying is logical and unbiased. I see evidence against potential new games. After the disaster with ORAS, it would be better to move on to the next gen. I don't appreciate the rudeness either.

You do realize that not everyone thought Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire was a "disaster," right? In all honesty, saying stuff like that is what makes you seem biased.

Wow, R/S outsold Emerald by 10 million units? Since R/S were so much more popular than Emerald, I'm surprised by how much moaning was caused by the exclusion of Emerald features in OR/AS.

You've got to remember though, Ruby and Sapphire were two games, while Emerald was only one. If you cut Ruby and Sapphire's sales in half, it's not that much better than Emerald's. Of course, most people don't buy two Pokemon games, so it doesn't completely explain it, but it does help to.
 

Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
You do realize that not everyone thought Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire was a "disaster," right? In all honesty, saying stuff like that is what makes you seem biased.

I am expressing my opinion on the games and in no way I am biased. Anyway I await for further news but I don't expect anything great.
 

Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
Are you really not getting that an opinion is by definition a bias?

I repeat: I am not bias. Bias means to be inclination or prejudice for or against one person or group, especially in a way considered to be unfair. I have not do so and the only bias are those who called me that. I am not changing my opinion on the next games because you want me to.
 
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