Official Serebii 5th Gen Tier List & Standard Rules Discussion Thread

[Blue Harvest]

There was no official tier, but from what I've seen its pretty much the same as the singles ban list just with Latios, Latias, Salamence and Garchomp allowed. Probably some others I'm forgetting too.

 

[BaldWombat]

In OU Doubles, as it was called, Sleep Clause would still be in effect so Dark Void is illegal. We have used that in the WiFi forum for the entirety of 4th gen.

 

[Blue Harvest]

With Pokemon Online becoming the #1 batting simulator and our own tier list incomplete may I suggest blatantly stealing theirs? (Kioku's)

Arceus
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-a
Deoxys-s
Dialga
Giratina
Giratina-o
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Kyogre
Latios
Lugia
Mew
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-s
Wobbuffet
Zekrom
Kyuremu

Of course since this is probably Wifi we will add Dream World abilities and "unobtainable" event Pokemon to that list. If people disagree about some of the banned Pokemon we can take a vote. Orange pokes are "suspect" and we can have a vote on what people want where.

Edit: Oh, lol. Archangel already posted the same exact thing in Wifi.

 

[:wub:disc]

regular Deoxys i don't care about, i've never used it and don't even know its base stats. it's like a mini Deo-A i think...?

ok i just checked, those stats may be a problem. idk about this one.

Deo-S may or may not be broken. innocent until proven guilty, unban it to begin with.

Latios can't get Soul Dew so i don't have a problem with it.

i still don't like Mew and would prefer if it stayed banned, however idk how many useful Mews will be active on Wi-Fi anyway so i don't particularly care about this one

i don't remember how you change Shaymin to Shaymin-S and don't know if it stays as Shaymin-S when traded over to a gen V game (probably would) but in any case i don't think it's good enough to be banned by any means. it's gay, yes, but not ban worthy

Wobba i don't like. period. does this include Wynaut as well? while i believe its ban was hugely unjustified in 4th gen as it probably wasn't that broken but with the Prevo Stone i imagine it will be much closer to Wobba's usefulness (albeit with less speed, which was one of the selling points of Wobba in the first place what with the whole Encore and Tickle trapping but SHUT Usdfhduigndfj'k)

Kyuremu is completely underwhelming, i think i've faced two and they've done nothing except fire off a Draco Meteor or die. worth testing.

then again, when i mention that stuff is 'worth testing', does anybody want to spend an annoyingly long amount of time on wi-fi testing stuff?

 

[Ragnarok]

Kyuremu can't hold a candle to the current dragons allowed in OU. Decent stats ruined by a completely redundant typing and poor movepool, no immunity / resistances to any of the entry hazards and is walled to hell by all of the common steel types in the game.

Shaymin-S can be obtained in Black / White, and while it does seem cheap, I'd rather use Jirachi, which is just as crippling and has better typing.

Soul Dew can't be obtained in Black / White. Without it, I think Lati@s aren't that bad in OU with all the new additions to game.

That's really all I have to say about the list. The rest can stay uber for all I care.

 

[Agonist]

Deoxys
Latios



Of course since this is probably Wifi we will add Dream World abilities and "unobtainable" event Pokemon to that list. If people disagree about some of the banned Pokemon we can take a vote. Pokemon in Orange are the arguable "suspects". Orange pokes are "suspect" and we can have a vote on what people want where.

why is Deoxys a suspect? Base 150 Atk/Sp.A/Spe doesn't seem just slightly broken, with access to extremespeed?

Latios maybe, assuming of course soul dew isn't allowed. All though Stab Specs Draco Meteor is going to hurt just about everything, if not just outright ohko it.

 

[Aerophoenix]

Mew and Deoxys both seem Ubers to me, with their diverse movepools (in Mew's case) and great stats (in Deoxys' case).
I would also say Latios is Ubers; its offensive capabilities are devastating, even without Soul Dew.
What the hell is Kyuremu doing there? Its stats are underwhelming compared to other dragons. It's got a weakness to Stealth Rock to boot. Maybe Ubers later.
Wobuffet I am iffy about; I would err on the side of caution and call it Ubers.
Deoxys-S looks OU to me, but again it's iffy.
Shaymin-S seems OU to me; its stats are certainly good, and Serene Grace Air Slashing with a Choice Scarf is also horrifying, but it's no better than Jirachi when it comes down to it.

Also where's Deoxys-D? Is it in OU just because stalling is not as viable right now?

Honestly, though this might strike some as weird, I am honestly thinking we should make a "Suspect" tier, in the same way we have BL. It's mostly for pokemon who are too good for OU, but not that great that they'll see much limelight in Ubers. This would include most pokes on this list.

I would also add Meloia and Genosect to Ubers, personally.

I wish we could check this but the Pokemon Online 5th gen servers seem to be down. If not, please link.

 

[jellsprout]

why is Deoxys a suspect? Base 150 Atk/Sp.A/Spe doesn't seem just slightly broken, with access to extremespeed?

Perhaps, although those 50/50/50 defenses and horrendous typing are making me doubt.

 

[d0nut]

Kyuremu can't hold a candle to the current dragons allowed in OU. Decent stats ruined by a completely redundant typing and poor movepool, no immunity / resistances to any of the entry hazards and is walled to hell by all of the common steel types in the game.

Shaymin-S can be obtained in Black / White, and while it does seem cheap, I'd rather use Jirachi, which is just as crippling and has better typing.

Soul Dew can't be obtained in Black / White. Without it, I think Lati@s aren't that bad in OU with all the new additions to game.

That's really all I have to say about the list. The rest can stay uber for all I care.

Actually Kyuremu can use Focus Blast to get through several common Steels such as Nattorei and Heatran. Its problem is more with its bad typing and stat distribution. Its ability does it no favors either. It is pretty outclassed too...

I personally think Shaymin-S is broken based on testing in 4th gen. It managed to stand out among other suspects such as Latios and Garchomp in Stage 3 and was probably the most broken of those suspects (bar Deoxys-S, but he was removed before the round was complete to begin with.)

Soul Dew isn't allowed yet that I know of, and even if it were it would be banned anyways. The Latis both deserve a fair shot in OU this gen imo.

 

[:wub:disc]

Perhaps, although those 50/50/50 defenses and horrendous typing are making me doubt.

offencively it is equal to if not superior to Mewtwo (4 less SAtk points made up for by 40 more base Attack and 20 more base Speed) so it will most likely hit hard enough to make up for its typing. i dunno though. as you said its defences are frail but i'd think it'd have a way to get around that (working as a revenge killer of sorts or something).

I personally think Shaymin-S is broken based on testing in 4th gen.

but this isn't 4th gen.

 

[Agonist]

Perhaps, although those 50/50/50 defenses and horrendous typing are making me doubt.

It could either sub on something that won't hurt it (blissey) or it can use a sash (although that's not all that reliable). It has superpower to annahilate Dark types (and steels) and can use fire punch/HP Fire for Scizor.

 

[jellsprout]

offencively it is equal to if not superior to Mewtwo (4 less SAtk points made up for by 40 more base Attack and 20 more base Speed) so it will most likely hit hard enough to make up for its typing. i dunno though. as you said its defences are frail but i'd think it'd have a way to get around that (working as a revenge killer of sorts or something).

Mewtwo also has 106/90/90 Defenses. Mewtwo can actually switch in or take a priority attack (min/min Mewtwo takes 50.1% - 58.9% from Scizor's Bullet Punch). Mewtwo has a far better movepool and better balanced stats, allowing it to also run a supporting set with Taunt and Dual Screens, a statussing set, an set-up offensive set or a bulky offensive set, as well as the anti-lead and all-out offense sets. Deoxys-N, on the other hand, can only run a suicide lead set or an offensive set, neither of which are very effective due to Deoxys's frailty.

It could either sub on something that won't hurt it (blissey) or it can use a sash (although that's not all that reliable). It has superpower to annahilate Dark types (and steels) and can use fire punch/HP Fire for Scizor.

With your proposed set of E-Speed/Substitute/SuperPower/[HP Fire/Fire Punch], how do you propose getting through the Ghosts, Dragons and other bulky Pokémon?

252+ Attack Deoxys-N holding Life Orb:
-1 E-Speed vs min/min Salamence: 33.5% - 39.6%
E-Speed vs 252/0 Dragonite: 37.6% - 44.3%
Fire Punch vs min/min Shandera w/o Flash Fire: 26.8% - 31.8%
Fire Punch vs 252/252+ Dusclops w/ Preevo Stone: 18.3% - 21.8%
Fire Punch vs 252/0 Metagross: 57.1% - 67.6%
E-Speed vs 240/216+ Swampert: 27.4% - 32.4%
SuperPower vs 240/216+ Swampert: 41.1% - 48.6%
E-Speed vs 252/4 Gliscor: 32.3% - 38.1%
E-Speed vs 252/4 Gligar w/ Preevo Stone: 26.6% - 31.4%

252+ Sp. Attack Deoxys-N holding Life Orb:
HP Fire vs 252/0 Metagross: 72.5% - 85.7%
HP Fire vs 252/0 Dusclops w/ Preevo Stone: 22.9% - 27.1%
HP Fire vs 252/0 Gliscor: 43.2% - 51.1%
HP Fire vs 252/0 Gligar w/ Preevo Stone: 34.4% - 40.7%

 

[Blue Harvest]

I've been in NYC for the past few days enjoying greatly the fact that I am 21 but I'll be back on the 17th. When I return I'll try to get back into this, but I would greatly appreciate if someone could randomly tell me of any updates from Smogon's banlist policy.

 

[d0nut]

I've been in NYC for the past few days enjoying greatly the fact that I am 21 but I'll be back on the 17th. When I return I'll try to get back into this, but I would greatly appreciate if someone could randomly tell me of any updates from Smogon's banlist policy.

So far there hasn't been any change in policy. They still haven't put together an initial banlist which they probably won't use anyway considering most people are still leaning towards no bans at this point. Apparently they are mainly debating about Lugia. They don't seem to be in any kind of hurry since PL doesn't have 5th gen yet, though PO is actually pretty close and they have even incorporated seeing opponents team before matches on the ladder.

 

[BaldWombat]

So far there hasn't been any change in policy. They still haven't put together an initial banlist which they probably won't use anyway considering most people are still leaning towards no bans at this point. Apparently they are mainly debating about Lugia. They don't seem to be in any kind of hurry since PL doesn't have 5th gen yet, though PO is actually pretty close and they have even incorporated seeing opponents team before matches on the ladder.

Didn't most people vote no Ban List in the public poll because they thought the Ban List option would be all current Ubers or some BS like that?

 

[shadowsfalling19]

So far there hasn't been any change in policy. They still haven't put together an initial banlist which they probably won't use anyway considering most people are still leaning towards no bans at this point. Apparently they are mainly debating about Lugia. They don't seem to be in any kind of hurry since PL doesn't have 5th gen yet, though PO is actually pretty close and they have even incorporated seeing opponents team before matches on the ladder.

There's a secret server,designed only for the use of 5th Gen Testing.

However that is not the Official server that has been Officially released.

 

[d0nut]

Didn't most people vote no Ban List in the public poll because they thought the Ban List option would be all current Ubers or some BS like that?

I'm not sure you can say "most," but yes there were many who voted no bans because they were unsure of what banlist would be used if they decided to vote for one. That is the main reason for the banlist discussion thread in Smogon's PR I believe. They might hold another poll where people vote for the banlist they are still working on or no bans, but it might be a PR only thread for all we know.

There's a secret server,designed only for the use of 5th Gen Testing.

However that is not the Official server that has been Officially released.

Its not really a secret server; anyone can download it. They have also moved from alpha testing to beta testing and they are only missing a couple items and a couple moves at this point. Rotation battles are also not implemented yet. It looks like PO might be the number one simulator at least for a short time, as I doubt they could completely replace PL since Smogon is backing them and they are the biggest competitive community. We really have no idea how far PL is coming along with 5th gen at this point, though we know PO is really close.

 

[Blue Harvest]

So.. I'll be back home tomorrow, though I might not be fully active again until Tuesday.

Have there been any new developments on PO's 5th gen servers? Has Smogon done anything at all worth noting in the past week? Is Shoddy 5th gen yet?

 

[Noheart]

I do not think Kyurem should be Uber, there's nothing outrageously broken about it's offensive or defensive stats. It's speed is probably what will cripple it the most, along with it's Dragon, Fighting, and Steel weakness. It's STAB is resisted and practically halted by most steel types, it also has no offensive Fire moves besides HP Fire. Scizor wrecks it. It doesn't have any set-up moves besides Claw Sharpen, and it's movepool isn't that great either. It doesn't even get Earthquake.

 

[shadowsfalling19]

So.. I'll be back home tomorrow, though I might not be fully active again until Tuesday.

Have there been any new developments on PO's 5th gen servers? Has Smogon done anything at all worth noting in the past week? Is Shoddy 5th gen yet?

Yeah,PO has Beta Server officially running 5th Gen.And nothing new with smogon,aside from the pokemon single rates on the forums.