Official Serebii 6th Gen Singles Tier Lists & Standard Rules

[Ace Trainer Riana]

Stats for the new megas are out and it's already suspected Salamence will be banned ahead of the release

 

[Miror]

Stats for the new megas are out and it's already suspected Salamence will be banned ahead of the release

Please keep this to official discussion instead of "I suspect that this is going to happen" when there hasn't been any talk by any official tiering lists to autoban Mega Salamence, or any other Mega Pokemon, before it's even tested in the metagame.

 

[saPower1000]

So if shadow tag was to be banned from ubers does that essentially mean you can't mega evolve gengar?

Pretty much, as that would break the clause if it becomes one.
So essentially, the same thing happens, except the other Pokemon with said ability get nerfed greatly too (like Wobbuffet).

 

[Ace Trainer Riana]

So the current discussionon Smogon is whether Baton Pass needs to be suspected again.

The interesting thing is Baton Pass is mostly absent on the ORAS ladder. I think the two new magic bouncers that are actually good may have something to do with it. Maybe they should wait.

 

[Clone™]

damn right theres talk of BP being suspected. the crap is so blatantly uncompetitive that players who have zero brain cells are beating high level players without using any cognitive function.

and wtf does magic bounce have to do with BP? it wont change anything lol diancie is easily trapped by gothitelle and sableye is easily killable with a fairy, plus they have to mega evolve to even gain their ability. the sooner this cancer gets out of ou, the better. theres no need for BP in the meta and to say otherwise shows blatant ignorance of knowledge of the meta

 

[Ace Trainer Riana]

Diancie's best teammates Rotom and Bisharp combined with Diancie can destroy Baton Pass

 

[Rocxidi]

damn right theres talk of BP being suspected. the crap is so blatantly uncompetitive that players who have zero brain cells are beating high level players without using any cognitive function.

and wtf does magic bounce have to do with BP? it wont change anything lol diancie is easily trapped by gothitelle and sableye is easily killable with a fairy, plus they have to mega evolve to even gain their ability. the sooner this cancer gets out of ou, the better. theres no need for BP in the meta and to say otherwise shows blatant ignorance of knowledge of the meta

Magic Bounce stops Taunt, Toxic, and whatever. Is the Baton Pass clause not present in ORAS OU? Or why are people trying to suspect it again?

 

[jesusfreak94]

Magic Bounce stops Taunt, Toxic, and whatever. Is the Baton Pass clause not present in ORAS OU? Or why are people trying to suspect it again?

The clause is still in effect, but there are still complaints about Baton Pass due to teams like this:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/baton-pass-skill.3514679/

These are "GeoPass" teams that utilize only one Baton Passer (Smeargle) and a ridiculous amount of team support to pass to Espeon and sweep. Like the old Baton Pass chains, these teams are remarkably effective despite their simplistic and predictable nature. Also like Baton Pass chains, these teams are very dependent on team matchup. You either have one of the few things that matches up well against a team like this (many of which are pretty gimmicky) and you win with little trouble, or you don't have any of those things and you generally outright lose from the moment the match starts. You can read more about the ongoing debate in the later pages of this thread:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tiering-thoughts-until-oras.3517181/page-4#post-5842749

 

[Ragnarok]

BP again?

If the majority of players are still have an issue with BP they should just stop faffing about and just test/get rid of BP outright instead of tiptoeing around the "issue". This is getting silly now.

Glad I got out and am now playing VGC / Battle Spot.

 

[Psynergy]

Look on the bright side, at least it's not like in Ubers where Minimize Drifblim with Baton Pass is a thing. Forget Shadow Tag, evasion is and always will be more stupid than Shadow Tag.

I have run into these "GeoPass" teams though, probably one of the least fun things to fight at the moment.

 

[KillerDraco]

BP again?

If the majority of players are still have an issue with BP they should just stop faffing about and just test/get rid of BP outright instead of tiptoeing around the "issue". This is getting silly now.

Honestly, I'd agree with this. It really felt like with the "Baton Pass clause", they tried too hard to avoid banning BP, and instead just created a run-around that makes it look like they don't have any idea what they're doing (hyperbole, if this turns into an argument about whether they know what they're doing or not I will throw pancakes at you). First it was having no more than three Baton Pass users (or maybe it was less than three, I don't quite recall), then it turned into only having one Baton Pass user per team, and here we are now. It is a bit ridiculous... though I'm not denying that Baton Pass is certainly warranting a suspect test, and I'd even be pro-ban, but it's pretty silly that it's taken us three suspect tests to get to this point when the question of banning Baton Pass outright has been tossed around since day 1.

 

[Ace Trainer Riana]

Why not just banned Stored Power? Sure it stops one Clefable set, but without Stored Power it actually takes skill to run Baton Pass. Also the Scolipede passers are better than Smeargle. They require a lot less support. Or even just ban Stored Power Espeon

 

[KillerDraco]

Why not just banned Stored Power? Sure it stops one Clefable set, but without Stored Power it actually takes skill to run Baton Pass. Also the Scolipede passers are better than Smeargle. They require a lot less support. Or even just ban Stored Power Espeon

Because Stored Power is literally not a problem on anything other than Espeon receiving Baton Pass boosts, and Espeon is not a problem without being a Baton Pass recipient. Neither of these things address the actual problem.

 

[Ace Trainer Riana]

But Baton Pass is only broken with Stored Power. Otherwise Espeon can't break Unaware pokemon or special walls.Show me a good baton pass.

 

[Eliteknight]

But Baton Pass is only broken with Stored Power. Otherwise Espeon can't break Unaware pokemon or special walls.Show me a good baton pass.

baton pass is broken under many other circumstances, espeon was/is useful without stored power. While pokemon such as emolga have been used on a baton pass chain and can sweep the entire team. Not every team carried clefable although it is a much more common sight now than it was. Baton pass can basically turn any pokemon of lackluster power into a massive threat.

 

[KillerDraco]

But Baton Pass is only broken with Stored Power. Otherwise Espeon can't break Unaware pokemon or special walls.Show me a good baton pass.

Except it's not. Stored Power is just one of many ways to abuse Baton Pass. Passing Quiver Dance, Geomancy, or Shell Smash to something already powerful can be just plain GG in many instances. Unaware? That'd be all well and good, were it not for the fact that there's only two viable users of it, and one of which (Quagsire) sucks outside of pure Stall. Clefable's a little better, sure, but it's not something like, oh say, Aegislash, who can just be slapped on any team. Not to mention that Unaware Clefable has to compete with Magic Guard Clefable, who boasts the ability to combat Stall far better. Even then, forcing someone to carry Clefable just to check Baton Pass restricts team building.

 

[jesusfreak94]

To be honest though, every single "broken" Baton Pass-based team I've ever seen utilized Stored Power Espeon. If someone could point me to a really successful and influential team like dEnIsSsS's that doesn't utilize Stored Power, that'd be great, because the only ones that I've seen argued about are GeoPass Smeargle to Stored Power Espeon (and occasionally ScoliPass to Stored Power Espeon with Calm Mind, but the former is far more influential).

I mean, I agree that Stored Power isn't the problem here and doesn't need to be banned, but I also don't think Baton Pass would be quite the problem it is now if not for the stupid amounts of power Stored Power gets after a few boosts.

 

[Gray™]

baton pass is broken under many other circumstances, espeon was/is useful without stored power. While pokemon such as emolga have been used on a baton pass chain and can sweep the entire team. Not every team carried clefable although it is a much more common sight now than it was. Baton pass can basically turn any pokemon of lackluster power into a massive threat.

*blushes*
The way I see it the problem with dealing with a well constructed Baton Pass teams are the first turns.If you manage to stop it early it'll be very hard for the Baton Pass team to find an opening to set up again and pass its boosts.Basically if you couldn't stop it in the first 6 turns then all you can do is hope you get a crit and even then you should be careful because if your team is weak to the baton pass recipient then your opponent might be able to sweep you even if the chain is broken.
As for Stored Power I used to run SP Espeon but more as a "backup" sweeper in case something happened to my recipient or if I couldn't bring it in safely and even back in 5th gen it was rather easy pulling off sweeps with it.Still wasn't never that much of a fan of it because of Dark types being immune to it and whatnot.
Personally I want to try and make a Baton Pass team with something that can hit really hard on its own as a recipient.Stuff like Charizard Y or Kyurem-B that have incredibly high stats even without any boosts. Either that or Emolga :<

 

[venom1950]

Shadow tag banned from uber! LOL
also realized a couple of days ago that mega mawile is also banned to ubers. won't even comment on that. if mega mawile is uber then every mega is uber

 

[KillerDraco]

Shadow tag banned from uber! LOL

RIP Mega Gengar. To be honest though, it's almost akin to double jeopardy. Still though, there's no denying that trapping was hugely influential in Ubers, and a timely trap can basically be the "Win condition" with extremely specific ways to stop it that aren't always found on a team.

also realized a couple of days ago that mega mawile is also banned to ubers. won't even comment on that. if mega mawile is uber then every mega is uber

Old news, but a far less controversial ban than Aegislash was, to be sure.