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Official Serebii 6th Gen Singles Tier Lists & Standard Rules

Discussion in '6th Gen' started by Ragnarok, Dec 3, 2013.

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  1. Mr. Reloaded

    Mr. Reloaded An enigma

    Loupunny and Beedrill are checks, not counters.

    And Tentacruel hates Extrasensory even when it's a sp.def variant, but if Ninja ain't running it, then it's a counter (in that situation).

    Porygon2, Chansey and Alolomola are the only for sure counters.
     
  2. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    ...Uh... Dugtrio's not even a check. Since Greninja outspeeds it, Dugtrio needs a Sash just to be able to survive since Hydro Pump and Ice Beam are both clean 1HKOs. Sure it can trap Greninja, but it usually ends up dead or maimed in the process, making it horribly unreliable. Also, while we're at it, if it does resort to a Sash to not get maimed, it loses out on a decent chunk of damage.

    252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 163-193 (57.1 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Sure, Sucker Punch will still finish it off every so often due to Greninja's Life Orb recoil, but even then, it's not a good strategy at all. Easily screwed by rocks or any prior damage.

    The underlying point is that although Greninja does have counters, the issue is that they're mostly Stall counters, and are pretty much impossible to fit into offense, and can even be tricky to fit into balanced. Hence the overcentralizing argument. I'm still on the fence about it. I do agree that there is definitely merit to the pro-ban arguments, as much as I love Greninja. There's no denying that you absolutely HAVE to consider Greninja when building a team, but then again, Greninja is not the only Pokemon for whom this is true. I'm still in the neutral zone for this one. Hopefully by the time I get reqs I'll have a more solid opinion on it.
     
  3. Aeon™

    Aeon™ Rock Ultimate

    Tier shifts oh boy!

    Rising:
    Lopunny rose from RU to OU
    Altaria rose from UU to OU
    Gallade rose from RU to OU
    Mantine rose from PU to NU
    Glalie rose from PU to NU (Glalite is still BL3)
    Garbodor rose from BL4 to NU
    Slurpuff rose from BL3 to RU
    Camerupt rose from PU to NU
    Sharpedo rose from RU to UU
    Pangoro rose from BL3 to RU
    Dropping:
    Wobbuffet dropped from NU to PU
    Quagsire dropped from UU to RU
    Mawile dropped from UU to RU (Mawilite is still Uber)
    Medicham dropped from OU to UU (Medichamite is still BL)

    Any body have any pressing thoughts on that?
     
  4. Psynergy

    Psynergy Strong Winds Staff Member Super Mod

    I kinda thought there would be more tier shifts than this but that could just be me. Not a whole lot of changes to OU that we didn't already kind of expect, Medicham dropping is no surprise with the existence of Mega Gallade.

    Quagsire's fallen a long way but I think seeing him in RU will be kinda fun. There isn't exactly a plethora of setup sweepers in the tier but there's still enough for it to be useful, and it laughs at Doublade. Now that RU lost Sharpedo I'm going to have to change my teams since they all used it though at least there's no longer a need to test Mega Sharpedo (would have been banned regardless). Sad to see Gallade leave the tier too since he was fine there without his Mega, but I suppose the same could be said for Sharpedo and even Metagross in UU.

    rip Wobbuffet though, sitting at the bottom of PU without his Shadow Tag.
     
  5. Clone™

    Clone™ Ded

    i expect to see raikou and klefki move to OU soon. both are godly rn and are great in OU. raikou especially. its AV set is simply amazing as it takes on a plethora of top tier threats while simultaneously having offensive presence and the ability to maintain momentum with volt switch, while it also outspeeds a good portion of the meta.

    every change thats happened is no surprise to me as they all make sense.
     
  6. Aeon™

    Aeon™ Rock Ultimate

    I actually tried using raikou once and it didn't really work out for me lol. But it is a lot of fun to use
     
  7. Ace Trainer Riana

    Ace Trainer Riana Well-Known Member

    Klefki probably won't but Jirachi, Sceptile, Beedrill, Diancie, and maybe Politoed and Swampert will rise to OU.
     
  8. Aeon™

    Aeon™ Rock Ultimate

    tbh I haven't seen a single Politoed in all of ORAS OU, so I highly doubt it'll go up. Jirachi is decent but I haven't seen many, either. Landorus-Therian makes Jirachi feel some type of way. Sceptile, Beedrill, Swampert, and Diancie are all viable enough, but I haven't seen many of them either. While the pokemon are good, I don't think they'll have enough usage to make the shift.
     
  9. Clone™

    Clone™ Ded

    Do you even play OU? Like seriously, do you even play OU? Because if the answer was yes, you wouldn't say any of the things you said in this post, or really any posts you make for that matter. Regardless, Klefki is one of the best mons in the meta thanks to a great defensive typing, good support movepool which includes spikes, t wave, and fairy lock. It's an invaluable asset to any offensive team that needs a spikes mon that doesn't instantly forfeit momentum. This is evident by its prevalence by upper ladder and tour players. It's usage is only going up so this 'notion' of yours that says that Klefki won't make OU is false.

    Also Sceptile, Swampert, beedrill, and diancie won't make OU anytime soon.
     
  10. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Definitely agree with this. They're not bad Pokemon per se we all know I'm referring to their Megas so if you nitpick this and say "no only their megas are" I will beat you with a bag of doorknobs, they're really and truly screwed by the "one mega" rule. They may not be bad, and may actually be good, but when you've got such dominant new Megas running the tier, such as Mega Metagross, Mega Sableye, Mega Gallade, Mega Altaria, and Mega Lopunny, while still having plenty of viable older Megas such as Mega Gyarados, MegaZard X, Mega Gardevoir, etc., then it's hard to justify using them, and thus their usage suffers accordingly. It's possible some or even all of them could theoretically rise into OU, but their usage isn't there yet.
     
  11. Rocxidi

    Rocxidi ס₪₪₪§€ΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞ7

    Don't forget Prankster Magnet Rise :)

    Also I agree with Megabee, Swampert and Scepty not being OU, but Mega Diancie ****s through things with mixed Rock Polish, including Scarfzone and several other things. Magic Bounce is a ***** to deal with as well. It's only flaws are the lack of recovery and x4 weakness, but add Wishpassing and Magnezone and riiiiip
     
  12. It really doesn't matter how good Klefki is. What matters is how much usage it receives, and right now it's sitting at a measly 2.55% according to the 1825 stats. It's steadily rising, but it still has a ways to go before it makes OU. Also, Mega Diancie is pretty awesome and would actually be OU right now if they were using the old cutoff for these short-term monthly updates, so there's that.
     
  13. Aeon™

    Aeon™ Rock Ultimate

    Damn I was planning on making a mega Diancie team soon, I'm just not too sure what to do with it.
     
  14. Lord Fighting

    Lord Fighting Bank Ball Collector

    So PU is actually a genuine tier now?
     
  15. Eaglehawk

    Eaglehawk Banned

    I still think Antar has a terrible method of doing stats. According to our dictator Kokoloko, UU was supposed to lose the following things:
    - Azelf
    - Jirachi
    - Raikou

    And gain the following things:
    - Mandibuzz
    - Espeon
    - Conkeldurr
    - Mamoswine
     
  16. Ace Trainer Riana

    Ace Trainer Riana Well-Known Member

    Espeon's already in UU
     
  17. Aeon™

    Aeon™ Rock Ultimate

    It's because Antar changed the way the cutoffs were done this month because of the PS crash a month or so ago.
     
  18. Lord Fighting

    Lord Fighting Bank Ball Collector

    So are those mons meant to be in UU or not?
     
  19. Ace Trainer Riana

    Ace Trainer Riana Well-Known Member

    Mamoswine might not last in UU with the Greninja ban due to being one of three viable ice types along with Weavile and Kyurem.
     
  20. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Well, that only matters if there's a need for ice types. And considering pretty much all of the relevant OR/AS Megas who rose to OU pretty much crap on Mamoswine or don't give a crap about it, it's definitely a harsh new world. Yeah, it can still Ice Shard things like Lando-T, Dragonite, and Garchomp, but it's becoming a smaller niche. It can't revenge kill things like Mega Lopunny, or Rock Polish Mega Metagross/Mega Diancie, struggles to break Mega Slowbro and Mega Sableye, and it's typing and speed continue to leave a lot to be desired. Plus, as far as ground types are concerned, Lando-T does most of what Mamoswine does, only better, minus the priority of course, and a few other smaller niches here and there. It is a fact that as far as ice types go, Mamoswine is one of the most viable, but that alone is not enough to keep it OU if there's not enough need to use it. It still has its niches in OU, and it still has a great offensive typing, but the fact is that its job is getting harder with the addition of OR/AS... especially since its job of picking off a weakened MegaMence quickly went away with Salamencite's quickban.
     
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