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Old Spriting Contests?
- Thread starter aliy_dark
- Start date
-Raiga-
Well-Known Member
Its kind a hard to call youself an old user here, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way, simply that even when you were around it was dead compared to what it used to be.
Its as simple as games don't use sprites anymore though. It might be fun, but its not really desirable to have a skill you can't use for anything.
Its as simple as games don't use sprites anymore though. It might be fun, but its not really desirable to have a skill you can't use for anything.
^Disagree, sprites have been out of fashion for a good while now and I don't really believe it's got anything to do with the deterioration of this board. Nobody on here has ever been recorded to make a career after being a spriter here, so it's always been for fun.
That said, contests are no longer around because A) people cba to host them anymore and B) people cba to join them anymore and C) the general quality of sprites has been decreasing as of late.
As to being an old user, I for one consider myself to be 'pretty' old, and those were some pretty good times and all that, but I've had some quality moments the last few months too. You just have to put a lot more effort in and a bunch of really talented people have left (my guess, for one, is that they simply grew up and 'out' of pokémon. Happened to me too.) and haven't been replaced, which is a shame.
That said, contests are no longer around because A) people cba to host them anymore and B) people cba to join them anymore and C) the general quality of sprites has been decreasing as of late.
As to being an old user, I for one consider myself to be 'pretty' old, and those were some pretty good times and all that, but I've had some quality moments the last few months too. You just have to put a lot more effort in and a bunch of really talented people have left (my guess, for one, is that they simply grew up and 'out' of pokémon. Happened to me too.) and haven't been replaced, which is a shame.
-Raiga-
Well-Known Member
Don't put words in my mouth, I said skill, not career.
Back then in the real heyday of spriting, r/s/e, not just pokemon but every game on the gba was sprited. As far as the pokemon games were concerned, they had things like trainer cards that could be used, gifs were something new to many people, and fusing pokemon was just plain cool.
Basically, while all for fun, people had a lot of reasons to want to try spriting. Now, with the pokemon games, and just about 90% of other ones, they are 3d, something no average joe can get into easily and just make a fusion out of. I'm not saying one's better then the other, but certainly if anyone can just make a great banner with gimp, they'd rather do that then spend hours putting pixels together when they don't know what they are doing.
I agree. Even though I think sprites have a unique appeal, it's more tempting nowadays to make something big with gimp
I also think the death of WSC also caused people to leave and start with spriting. I know I started spriting because of the WSC because it looked something fun to do. And I became 'addicted' to the WSC then. I joined every week hoping I get to the 'winners poll' or win.
Hopefully there will be some brave men who decide to revive this section of the forum
I also think the death of WSC also caused people to leave and start with spriting. I know I started spriting because of the WSC because it looked something fun to do. And I became 'addicted' to the WSC then. I joined every week hoping I get to the 'winners poll' or win.
Hopefully there will be some brave men who decide to revive this section of the forum
-Raiga-
Well-Known Member
We've tried revival numerous times....I created the community project with wps and others ideas, Yoshinichi made a similar(though better one) after that failed, and the wsc actually managed to get back on its feet for quite a few consectutive weeks, but ended again due to no real interest.
I think we kind of just have to accept that spriting was never really meant to be anything in the first place, it was only used in games because of size constrictions. Obviously if the NES could have had 360 graphics, it would have used them.
I think we kind of just have to accept that spriting was never really meant to be anything in the first place, it was only used in games because of size constrictions. Obviously if the NES could have had 360 graphics, it would have used them.
Jaredsaurus
New Member
I made an account way back in 2006, used to mix and recolour sprites per people's requests... those were the good ol' days 
I kinda miss it.
I kinda miss it.
I figure what we need is a revamp of the tutorials. Sure, they're still pretty good, but a lot are out-dated. And more awareness. I know so many artists that could get into spriting. Not too many know this sub-forum actually exists. Raiga, typical me move here, but I'm going to slightly disagree here. Spriting is not limited by how video game technology progresses. I believe its limited in the fact everyone assumes that spriting should progress with it. This is why with every consecutive game release, you'd see less of the previous generation spriting attempts. Getting rid of the forum club things or whatever they were called was a bad idea. There was life in the spriting club, and when it went, this sub-forum kinda went too. The best solution is obviously for all the remaining spriters to rally and get back into a stride of spriting, but with life progressing, and all of us getting older, we lose time for it. We could always push for a new spriting contest, something other than the WSC. Hell, I've been working on a fan region for a few weeks now, and its coming along piece by piece. Too many of us just gave up at the same time.
I too miss this sub-forum.
I too miss this sub-forum.
I'm up for helping with revamping the tutorials and all that, and yeah there's a lot of outdated, useless or just generally bad stuff in there (some of which is mine, I know) but I'm afraid it'll take more than that to revive the thing.
Some form of contest must come back. Going for it weekly maybe was a bit ambitious but two-weekly or monthly contests with basic rules (I basically stopped following WSC when they began over-specifying the task) should be manageable.
The C&C has to improve both in quantity and quality. That'll probably be the hardest. People get discouraged when they get little to no feedback, and if there is some feedback it's usually "wow those are very good (optional addendum: for a beginner"), stuff they won't get better with, leading to an overall decrease both in forum activity and sprite quality. Basically a lot of spriters also moved on to Fan Art Requests (last time I checked anyway, been a while) where they at least get some attention and practice but no real feedback.
My $0.02, I don't really want to get into the "spriting isn't a desirable skill" vs. the "it's never been" argument anymore, both sides have stated their opinions and quite frankly, I think there's a lot to say for or against both of them. We can't do any of this stuff without help from the mods, the spriters themselves, etc..but hey! We got a dialogue and that's a start, right?
Some form of contest must come back. Going for it weekly maybe was a bit ambitious but two-weekly or monthly contests with basic rules (I basically stopped following WSC when they began over-specifying the task) should be manageable.
The C&C has to improve both in quantity and quality. That'll probably be the hardest. People get discouraged when they get little to no feedback, and if there is some feedback it's usually "wow those are very good (optional addendum: for a beginner"), stuff they won't get better with, leading to an overall decrease both in forum activity and sprite quality. Basically a lot of spriters also moved on to Fan Art Requests (last time I checked anyway, been a while) where they at least get some attention and practice but no real feedback.
My $0.02, I don't really want to get into the "spriting isn't a desirable skill" vs. the "it's never been" argument anymore, both sides have stated their opinions and quite frankly, I think there's a lot to say for or against both of them. We can't do any of this stuff without help from the mods, the spriters themselves, etc..but hey! We got a dialogue and that's a start, right?
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I'm going to make a list of a few tutorials here, might even claim a few. They do need revamping. Just VM me or mention you want to write up the tutorial, and I'll add your name to the list.
Recolours: Pokemazter3001
Scratching: Ψosiden
Fusions/Splicing: Bert
Map-making:
Devamping:
Revamping:
Shading:
Pixel-Overs:
Line Art:
Proper C+C:
MS Paint general tutorial: Pokemazter3001
GIMP general tutorial:
Photoshop general tutorial:
Uploading tutorial:
Feel free to add anything to the list if you feel it needs adding. The bottom 5 are to make the entire system just flow easier, much like posting guidelines in other sub-forums. Also, I feel we need to come up with an image-hosting website rather than Iaza. Tutorials are meant to last until they need updating, and Iaza has a 30-day holding limit. What other websites directly host images? Should we have a Photobucket account made for this purpose?
Hell, maybe making one of these tutorials will get you back into spriting.
Recolours: Pokemazter3001
Scratching: Ψosiden
Fusions/Splicing: Bert
Map-making:
Devamping:
Revamping:
Shading:
Pixel-Overs:
Line Art:
Proper C+C:
MS Paint general tutorial: Pokemazter3001
GIMP general tutorial:
Photoshop general tutorial:
Uploading tutorial:
Feel free to add anything to the list if you feel it needs adding. The bottom 5 are to make the entire system just flow easier, much like posting guidelines in other sub-forums. Also, I feel we need to come up with an image-hosting website rather than Iaza. Tutorials are meant to last until they need updating, and Iaza has a 30-day holding limit. What other websites directly host images? Should we have a Photobucket account made for this purpose?
Hell, maybe making one of these tutorials will get you back into spriting.
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-Raiga-
Well-Known Member
I agree everything else, except this.
When I'm starting something FOR FUN, the last thing I want to get is a list of nitpicks and things to fix, it literally sucks the fun out of it, and turns it into a chore. Granted I CAN hand out some of the longest and hardest crit with them all(if serebii still let you look at very old posts, you'd know I was that type of person, one of the biggest on here barring Yami Ryu).
But now I focus more on encouraging posts then dissecting ones. It saves me a heck of a lot of time not zooming into every pixel too.
As for the tutorial idea, I won't shoot it down, anything to help is good in my book. However I feel that if the biggest boom of spriters came with little to zero tutorials, having them was never the problem.(plus I'm sure people who would be really good at spriting wouldn't be deterred by few tutorials)
On a different note, photobucket should work well. I've had my account for 8-10 years now and I still haven't even used 1% of my bandwitdh, despite having quite a few pictures up.(granted mostly sprites, thus small file size, but still)
Well I never really said we should all become like Yami_Ryu, God that'd be horrible.
Your C&C doesn't have to be harsh, it doesn't even have to be 100% honest, as long as it's helpful.
And let's face it, "wow these are great lol" is just as bad as "these suck gtfo". Not attacking you here btw, I think you give some really helpful C&C.
Your C&C doesn't have to be harsh, it doesn't even have to be 100% honest, as long as it's helpful.
And let's face it, "wow these are great lol" is just as bad as "these suck gtfo". Not attacking you here btw, I think you give some really helpful C&C.
Oh, oh, I'll do the scratch spriting one. I need to make some more scratch sprites anyway, so I may as well do a tutorial while I'm at it. It'll be fun. When I'm done, shall I post it here, or what? I'm sure we can get the spriting forum going again, at least a little bit better (not that I was around when it was any good).
-Raiga-
Well-Known Member
This is pretty much the guideline I follow now. I'd rather lie and make someone happy enough to reach the point where I can be honest, then lie and have them quit.
I do think the "wow these are great" comments have their place though. Compare it to a couple of kids at a skate park, would it be logical for one of them to give a full critique for every single little trick they do? Rather, when they say "wow that was sick!" they simply mean continue what you're doing because its worked well thus far. You have to keep in mind not everyone has the skills to judge a sprite too, because they can't do any better, so they can only judge off of things they realize first glance like bright colors or odd proportions.
Comments like "wow man, sorry but these are pretty bad" however have no real place in my mind. Its not encouraging nor constructive.
Erm, just PM them to me when you're done. I'll make a grand pile of them and just upload them all at once.
Well if you ever wanted to share a sprite tutorial, you could have PMed it to a Fan Sprites Mod to put it up on the Sprites Tutorial thread. IMO the old tutorials on the current thread are fine. Sure they used programs from the cavemen times but it might help out some spriters who need inspiration or a general idea to do a specific sprite and don't think they need Photoshop CS5 for everything. I may delete some of the posts that only gave out one image. Which makes me wonder if I should upload all the shared images that are still alive so they never die.
At first I thought starting a new thread where everybody can share their tutorials and help out spriters who need help on that specific tutorial sounded like a nice idea but I think you guys can ask about that stuff in the Spriter's Lounge. Yes, no? Besides, who knows if the spriter who handed out the tutorial will be available all the time to help.
As for contests, well yeah I'm not sure how to explain their death but I'll see if I can come up with some interesting competition soon. You're all welcome to discuss an idea for a contest, if you're willing to start. Just remember you have to be devoted to it until the end. Maybe a lot of people don't start up contests because of this? I understand life gets in the way. u__u So perhaps contests need some co-hosts so they can carry over in case the host drops off the face of SPPF. (or Fan Sprites)
At first I thought starting a new thread where everybody can share their tutorials and help out spriters who need help on that specific tutorial sounded like a nice idea but I think you guys can ask about that stuff in the Spriter's Lounge. Yes, no? Besides, who knows if the spriter who handed out the tutorial will be available all the time to help.
As for contests, well yeah I'm not sure how to explain their death but I'll see if I can come up with some interesting competition soon. You're all welcome to discuss an idea for a contest, if you're willing to start. Just remember you have to be devoted to it until the end. Maybe a lot of people don't start up contests because of this? I understand life gets in the way. u__u So perhaps contests need some co-hosts so they can carry over in case the host drops off the face of SPPF. (or Fan Sprites)
It's just that a lot of tutorials use outdated generation sprites, shading laws and general techniques. Then there are the tutorials who don't exist anymore because the uploader deleted them. There are also a bunch of (imo) downright obsolete. Pokéball tutorials and the like are just too specific and basically the point of a tutorial should be to get a feel for the basic techniques plus "And once you can do this, you can make stuff like pokéballs and ..." etc. A pokéball is nothing more than a simplified fusion using the ball as the base, so a fusion tutorial should be enough for people who want to make pokéballs.
I think there should just be a few 'basic' tutorials (Pokémazter has a nice list) and people should start working from there, instead of having to crawl between pages and pages of over-specific and outdated stuff. The Spriters' Lounge seems to be more of a sandbox to me where people can post stuff they're not sure about and then anyone with a bit of experience can give them more specific pointers. Just my opinion, of course.
As for contests it's a bit hard to judge just how much interest there is around for them right now. I'd love to join or even host one, but there's no fun or honor in winning a 3-man competition, so it would always be a bit of a gamble but there's only one way to find out. I think the co-host is a great idea though and I'm sure you'll come up with something.
I think there should just be a few 'basic' tutorials (Pokémazter has a nice list) and people should start working from there, instead of having to crawl between pages and pages of over-specific and outdated stuff. The Spriters' Lounge seems to be more of a sandbox to me where people can post stuff they're not sure about and then anyone with a bit of experience can give them more specific pointers. Just my opinion, of course.
As for contests it's a bit hard to judge just how much interest there is around for them right now. I'd love to join or even host one, but there's no fun or honor in winning a 3-man competition, so it would always be a bit of a gamble but there's only one way to find out. I think the co-host is a great idea though and I'm sure you'll come up with something.
I was thinking about making a big project similar to CAP (on the smogon forums) since alot of (beginning) spriters are making fakemon.
Good idea?
Maybe if we follow all of the steps of making a fakemon (the design, the sprites, the stats, ability,...) we attract alot of people from other compartments of the forum.
Good idea?
Maybe if we follow all of the steps of making a fakemon (the design, the sprites, the stats, ability,...) we attract alot of people from other compartments of the forum.
It would attract people from the competitive section to migrate here. I'm down for this. We'd have to set a timeframe on how long each one takes though.