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Old team, full of awesome. Maybe?

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@ Leftovers
Relaxed
252 HP / 48 Defense / 208 Special Defense

Payback
Earthquake
Rapid Spin
Toxic Spikes

Toxic Spikes eliminate many grounded pokemon, like Blissey, Celebi, Swampert and Raikou, all of which are threats to Suicune. Lead Adamant Mamoswine Earthquake 4HKOs unless it rolls max damage all three times while Swampert Earthquake caps at 25%. 56 Special Attack Hydro Pump will almost always 3HKO, but will often miss at least once. Surf always 4HKOs, regardless of the damage roll. I'm experiment with different EV spreads. Might even go back to max HP / max special defense. The added move coverage of Earthquake lets me hit Magnezone so I don't ALWAYS need Shed Shell (Earthquake OHKOs Magnezone after Stealth Rocks about 33% of the time, always with residual damage). Earthquake also prevents Lucario from setting up on me, and slams Heatran, Infernape and Metagross. Payback hits Celebi and Rotom to help wear them down so Suicune can sweep. I'm running Relaxed so I'm slower then other Forretress, which lets me spin their layers away as they lay them. Many common leads are set up on, and those that aren't are normally open to a quick switch to Tyranitar (Azelf).



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@ Lum Berry
Adamant
252 HP / 4 Attack / 12 Speed / 240 Special Defense

Stone Edge
Pursuit
Stealth Rock
Rest

EVed to do a minimum of 95% to Roserade, and to survive anything it does in return before falling to Sandstorm. Special Defense will survive all Gengar Focus Blasts except for Specs, but even LO Gengar Focus Blast will not OHKO 67% of the time. Pursuit is great for picking off Scarfers like Latias, Gengar and Rotom but also can 2HKO a fleeing Tentacruel. Rest works well with Lum Berry to stay alive against repeated volleys from Starmie and Latias but also helps break down Will-O-Wisping Rotoms and negate unforturnate freezes that might let Scarf Starmie live to see another day (or worse, Trick my Suicune). Stone Edge sucks, I would like to find another move.. possibly Ice Punch or Thunder Wave.



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@ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 Special Defense

Surf
Calm Mind
Rest
Sleep Talk

The late game immortal. Suicune is virtually unstoppable after a Calm Mind. Even defensive Zapdos and Celebi fails to 2HKO after a single Calm Mind, and will ALWAYS 4HKO after two. Modest Starmie and Timid Gengar Thunderbolts 4HKO after just a single boost while Suicune easily destroys both of them with STAB Surfs. Even offensive LO Celebi Leaf Storm will not OHKO, and Suicune can actually Rest right in front of it, sponging subsequent hits (it does have a respectable chance of 3HKOing). Physical hitters like Salamence, Lucario and Scizor are playing a dangerous game since the former will be worn down by Stealth Rocks, Sandstorm and Life Orb while the latter two take heavy damage from +1 Surfs. Gyarados can attempt to Dragon Dance alongside me, but like Salamence it will often die to sand and Stealth Rocks. "Cro" Gyarados almost always loses one on one since it needs to be at +5 before Waterfall 3HKOs, and +6 for a guarenteed 3HKO. Depending on the EV spread, Surf will 3HKO Gyarados on average at +4 with a 252/176 spread, and with a physically inclined set a 3HKO is likely at just +3.

Blah blah blah, if I can avoid Trick and Explosion Suicune is immortal. All calculations assume Sandstorm is active.



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@ Leftovers
Timid
252 HP / 252 Speed / 4 Defense

Calm Mind
Dragon Pulse
Recover
Reflect

HP Fire means opposing Gengar can speed tie with Latias AND fry Forretress with its own HP Fire so I'm running Reflect instead. Reflect deals with Scizor well enough anyway. Blissey isn't 2HKOed by +6 Dragon Pulse but Latias always beats it with Toxic Spikes so the 128 Special Attack EVs don't seem that important to me, as opposed to sponging Reflected Pursuits. Specially Defensive Skarmory is always 2HKOed by +6 Dragon Pulse so next to Blissey, nothing will last against Latias on stall. Reflect is not just for letting Latias survive her counters but also assists Suicune since Gyarados and Salamence die horribly if Suicune has Reflect up.



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@ Leftovers
Jolly
252 HP / 252 Speed / 4 Defense

Taunt
Toxic
Earthquake
Roost

216 Speed wasn't enough, as I often lost the speed tie with other Gliscors. 220 was unreliable too, and I eventually used 236 before giving up and just maxing it. Now the majority of Zapdos, Roserade, Gliscor and Salamence are outrun. Throwing around Taunt catches things like Rotom and Latias from dropping a Trick and random Brelooms from Sporing. Taunt and Roost together eliminate many stall pokemon such as Skarmory and Foretress, who are PP stalled. Speed lets Gliscor take on non-scarfed Heatran somewhat reliably, as Flamethrower doesn't do enough and Fire Blast misses behind my Sand Veil. Counters any Tyranitar without Ice Beam and switches in on most sleep moves with around a 50% chance of them missing outright (52% chance of Hypnosis missing and 40% chance of Sleep Powder crapping out). Toxic takes out Rotom and wards off Blissey while beating defensive Celebi nearly all of the time. Celebi Grass Knot tops at 27% while Roosted HP Ice doesn't even 2HKO.



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@ Choice Scarf
Jolly
252 Speed / 252 Attack / 4 HP

Iron Head
Thunder Punch
Fire Punch
Trick

The cleanser, hunter and threat checker. Jirachi matches +1 Jolly Salamence and beats virtually every other pokemon in OU. If something starts to set up, more often then not Jirachi can flinch it to hell it or lock it in place with Trick. Iron Head deals sufficient damage that anything hurt by Toxic Spikes is often killed before even firing a single shot. Sandstorm wears down opponents fast enough that Gyarados and Salamence can sometimes be KOed by resisted Iron Heads. Nasty Plot Azelf, Breloom, Lucario, Gengar and random other stuff I couldn't ever dream of facing are obliterated before they can cause much damage. I would like to use U-Turn over Thunder Punch, but I'm too easily beaten by Gyarados.
 
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Wizard of 'Cos

Hi I'm Joe
Maybe? Pfft! It's far better than anything I have seen on here in a while.

Looks a little LOMie weak, I dunno / Can't be bothered finding out how much a LO Surf would do to Tyranitar, I imagine that it would 2HKO with SR, if not just straight 2HKO. And all of the other members are 2HKOed, your own ScarfMie can revenge kill or switch in on a Surf. But in theorymon that is never a great answer so yeah.

I think I saw you post this team a couple months ago, and I'm pretty sure that it had issues with SubGar (Or that mighta been the other one).
 
Timid LO Starmie only has a 2.96% chance of 2HKOing Tyranitar with Surf after Stealth Rocks, and if can manipulate Starmie to throw an Ice Beam or Surf at me my own Starmie can do ok.

This is not a counter though, and it does give me some trouble. A specially defensive Scizor is guarenteed survival against two Life Orb Surfs, or a LO Thunderbolt + LO Hydro Pump, but isn't even guarenteed a 2HKO with Pursuit unless it switches. Bug Bite is a guarenteed OHKO, however. Maybe Scizor over Skarmory?
 

Digital Love

Jew 'Fro's Graduate
baw, no one ever uses SpecsMie.

No immediate physical issues, since you're covering all of your bases (the two pokes that would give you issues only give you issues if you lose Starmie)

Defensively, I could see specially bulky Bronzong being an issue, though I'm going to assume TTar will sponge most of what it can do, and a Cune with it's CM's should take it down.

Good team, otherwise, sorry if It's not much help, just minor things to watch out for. More of a rate later
 

Rhys29

Encore
Don't remember if I ever discussed how Azelf could fit just as well over Starmie. You lose Surf coverage but you get a hefty boost of 328 Sp.A to 383 which is nice. Psychic covers Nape, gives you an edge against late game Machamp (whom we all hate), and deals with Scarf Cross if Skarm/Gliscor are hurtin. Just something to look at.
 

Rhys29

Encore
It also has U-Turn and Flamethrower. I simply stated Psychic because it gave similar coverage if BH was looking for it.
 
Yeah, Pursuit was my main fear. Starmie can try to resist by using Surf often but Azelf is bound to die eventually. Gyarados was such a huge threat I didn't want to take any chances with random Waterfalls either.

But I updated the team.. a lot. Any issues?
 

Gamefreak

Well-Known Member
Emily, a great team like always. =)

If you do not know, it is me LizardMan.

I do not have much to suggest, however... I have every single one of these pokemon, so I can help test the team for you/give you clones so you can use this on wifi. xP
 
Good team, in fact amazing team.

:)

I just dont like how well this team deals with Gyara. I mean, it does fine if the Gyara DDs, but if it fires off a Quake or Waterfall it will do a fair bit to Rachi and as Rachi doesnt have any recovery, nor do you run Wish, it could be annoying.

Gyarados is damn annoying and does pose a threat. Jirachi is not my first switch, I usually go to him as a last resort. Latias and Gliscor surprisingly do ok for a few turns, if Gyarados is poisoned or low on health Suicune can finish it off. Tyranitar will always survive a Waterfall and OHKO with Stone Edge.

Tar, Forry, and Rachi all would love Wish support, which is why testing Wish>> Recover on Latias could be an idea. tbh I wouldnt run it myself as I prefer the instant recovery, but it could be an option to consider. If you werent running Cune I would defnitely suggest Vaporeon >> Latias but you are.

I tried it before, and you're right instant recovery is 100% better. Latias dies horribly without Protect added to Wish, in which case I'm not running the same set.

Without ResTalk Tar, SubRoost Zapdos could be hard to handle, but you will be able to deal with it utilising Gliscor + Tar / Latias by Taunting etc. In fact you do fine, although it could be bothersome especially if they are running 216 Spe or higher.

SubRoost Zapdos with Discharge is capable of 6-0ing me if it can Paralyze or Poison Latias. "Cro" Swampert could work over Suicune even if he's largely inferior at the job.. A different Latias set or different pokemon all together maybe?

I personally prefer a bulkier ScarfRachi just EVd to outrun Max +1 Gyara as I dont like the 50% chance to outrun Mence.

The speed EVs come in handy after the Trick, and I'm still incredibly fast (killing Lucario and Breloom).

The team is amazing and I will probably recommend it for the Archives at Smogon because it really sums up todays semistall metagame wonderfully ^_^

EDIT: Ive never said that to any other team before o:

Thank you! That means a lot.

Edit: Wait. Roar could work over Stone Edge on Tyranitar to get rid of SubRoost Zapdos. TTar could stall it out of PP with Rest and Stealth Rock, as Pressure will have no effect on it. Roar would also help with Subseeders and **** up Gyarados and Salamence who think I'm locked into Pursuit (because Stone Edge always misses when its needed).

Emily, a great team like always. =)

If you do not know, it is me LizardMan.

I do not have much to suggest, however... I have every single one of these pokemon, so I can help test the team for you/give you clones so you can use this on wifi. xP

Heh, thats awesome. I can upload some YouTube battles eventually if we trade. Someday I'll repay you..
 
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Wizard of 'Cos

Hi I'm Joe
As said above, great team. What I especially like is you haven't resorted to the cookie cutter, Obi Stall themes.

On Jirachi, is there a specific reason you are using Fire Punch? As I don't think it can OHKO Scizor (though I could be wrong there) and it cannot OHKO Lucario. You also said you wanted to fit U-Turn in, well I run Jirachi with U-Turn > Fire Punch, and I haven't really found many opportunities in which I am missing having a Fire move, though I guess it would be helpful against Scizor, as you don't have a dedicated counter to him (not to say you are Scizor weak, but I guess it would be helpful).

Just an idea really.

lastly, I would just like to ask about Latias, it seems as though Latias would be losing effectiveness trying to run both a Reflect + CM + Recovery set, as Dragon has decent coverage typewise, but every team you encounter will have a Steel, and I don't really see Latias getting the time to get enough CM's to pull a sweep. I would suggest maybe Roar, or even Toxic or Thunder Wave for the ability to Status Fly-ers / Levitate-ers, though if you have a SubRoost Zappy issue I can see Roar being handy, though Toxic would hurt.
 
As said above, great team. What I especially like is you haven't resorted to the cookie cutter, Obi Stall themes.

Thanks, but to be fair only the Forretress is my EV spread, the rest are either standard or a basic 252/252.

On Jirachi, is there a specific reason you are using Fire Punch? As I don't think it can OHKO Scizor (though I could be wrong there) and it cannot OHKO Lucario. You also said you wanted to fit U-Turn in, well I run Jirachi with U-Turn > Fire Punch, and I haven't really found many opportunities in which I am missing having a Fire move, though I guess it would be helpful against Scizor, as you don't have a dedicated counter to him (not to say you are Scizor weak, but I guess it would be helpful).

Yeah, its for Scizor. I'm too lazy to actually calculate it, but I have yet to see Scizor survive a Fire Punch. Fire Punch also beats Skarmory one on one if I Tricked my Scarf earlier and have Leftovers. Fire Punch is the only way I can hurt Magnezone or Forretress.

Just an idea really.

I'll try it, but as of now Jirachi is my only way to kill Swords Dance Scizor.

lastly, I would just like to ask about Latias, it seems as though Latias would be losing effectiveness trying to run both a Reflect + CM + Recovery set, as Dragon has decent coverage typewise, but every team you encounter will have a Steel, and I don't really see Latias getting the time to get enough CM's to pull a sweep. I would suggest maybe Roar, or even Toxic or Thunder Wave for the ability to Status Fly-ers / Levitate-ers, though if you have a SubRoost Zappy issue I can see Roar being handy, though Toxic would hurt.

Reflect is 100% required, as it has saved me from random *** things and prevents Latias from dying horribly to Pursuit every match. Calm Mind doesn't always get me sweeps though. Maybe Grass Knot, Roar or something instead. Grass Knot is good to hit Swampert with and TTar very hard, but Surf will hurt TTar and Heatran I guess, while doing something to Scizor..

As for SubRoost Zapdos, Tyranitar stops it cold I've learned. If you count the turns wasted on Rest / Stealth Rocks and the Pressure burned Stone Edge and Pursuit, Tyranitar will waste exactly 100 turns. Zapdos, if it runs Hidden Power, caps at 80 PP. If it runs Toxic, ends with just 72. If I switch around (Suicune absorbing Hidden Powers, Roosts or Substitutes, and Gliscor taking non-Toxic or HP Ice moves) Zapdos gets stalled even more.

Surf, Grass Knot, Thunder Wave, Roar or Thunderbolt over Calm Mind on Latias? Roar or Grass Knot take priority, since Swampert can be really annoying if he isn't Poisoned.
 
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