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Olivia's Grand Trial! The Hardest Pokémon Match Ever!! (979)

Honestly I dont blame the anime for pretty much completley avoiding those since those wouldve been a nightmaare to plan out lmao

But I wanted them to do it.

So they could burn down with it...
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
To be fair, it's probably somewhat easier for a fleet-footed (fleet-taloned?) bird to dodge a giant boulder falling straight down than it is for a wolf or a sentient nose to dodge an entire field of exploding flowers. If Ash had used any Pokémon other than Rowlet, Continental Crush probably would have crushed it. Why else do you think Olivia seemed so impressed?

I don't think this battle made Olivia look like a novice. After all, her strategy was giving Ash trouble at first. Instead, I think this battle made Ash look like the skilled Trainer he is. He came up with a good strategy that utilized Rowlet's speed and apparent incredible strength, since it's able to carry a 20-pound rock puppy and turned the tide in his favor.

I also think this battle showed, once again, that Z-Moves are not guaranteed finishers. In fact, one could almost argue using a Z-Move is a bit of a gamble, since it takes a lot out of the Pokémon (Lycanroc was visibly panting after using Continental Crush), but it's not guaranteed to always hit.

I never said a novice in general. I said a novice when it comes to Z-Moves. For some reason, like nuzamaki90 said, every time they're used in Kahuna battles, the Kahuna is the one that fails at using them adequately while Ash's strategy is somehow perfect. The rest of the battle strategy was fine enough, it's just the Z-Moves that are concerning. Shouldn't a Kahuna's Z-Move be giving more trouble rather than making it easier for him?
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
Did anyone else find it weird Olivia's Z move was this big explosion that blew away the trees yet it couldnt even crack the pavement of the arena??
 
Did anyone else find it weird Olivia's Z move was this big explosion that blew away the trees yet it couldnt even crack the pavement of the arena??

You're asking about logic in THIS series when we have a Bewear that can run on water?
 

mehmeh1

I don't feel safe!
Disappointed that he won, but it was a great battle. Anyways, due to the pacing of the series, I'd say either the writers don't know what they're doing or they know something we don't. Also, it seems like using c crush was pretty much what costed olivia the match, not only due to destroying the rock formation thing, but also because it let lycanroc worn out enough to get taken out by rockruff
 
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Zipper4242

Bewear is the most powerful being in the universe.

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
Disappointed that he won, but it was a great battle. Anyways, due to the pacing of the series, I'd say either the writers don't know what they're doing or they know something we don't. Also, it seems like using c crush was pretty much what costed olivia the match, not only due to destroying the rock formation thing, but also because it let lycanroc worn out enough to get taken out by rockruff

I find that kind of weird to be honest, Hala's Hariyama didn't show any signs of fatigue from using all out pummeling, then again Pikachu hardly did much damage before it did use that move as apposed to here where Rowlet and Rockruff both got some blows in.

Another factor is that since Gladion showed Ash the move initially, I had a feeling that was going to come into play and it did, since Ash knew how to dodge it having seen it, where as with Hala he'd never seen All out pummeling thus Pikachu got hit by one of the strikes.
 

Rohanator

Well-Known Member
When I first watched and finished the episode earlier today I felt extremely harsh towards it, now that I've rewatched it I can admit there are were some cool tactics and musical cues etc (and animation wise the final move by Rockruff was fantastic) but overall this is still another disappointment for me, which has been a trend with the SM episodes I've actually anticipated the most. It's kinda funny cause I've really loved most of the "fillers", and even stuff like last week's battle.

They really gotta find some more interesting ways for Ash's opponents to use their Z moves cause so far they've been pretty bad, like Hala I found acceptable for a first one but Olivia's was just a waste, you can't just dodge something that big and not even take damage from a shock wave or something. It would've been much better if after witnessing Gladion's Continental Crush the training leading up to this battle was Ash trying to figure out a proper counter measure against it. "Dodge" is not good enough lol.

Animation was also terrible for the most part, I guess they gotta make some compromises for the over the top Z-move sequences and more well animated comedic episodes, but it's still disheartening to see when major battles like this are much less frequent in SM.

Also I definitely think Ash should've lost. Defeating your own teammate and then finishing on your own just defeats the whole purpose of a double battle. Like, yeah I love the interaction between Ash and Rockruff, but I think we could've had that and still end on a loss. The episode could've still ended on a positive note where despite Rockruff screwing up Ash forgave it and fought together with it till the bitter end, and promised they would win next time, or something. I mean I partly say that cause I just didn't find the overall match that good and hoped that they were saving up for the REAL deal but nope guess this is it.

Next week's looking good though, I have faith in SM in pretty much everything but straight up battles. xD
 
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Soniman

Break the Limit
It would've been pretty cool to have the rematch with Ultra-Rockruff or whatever the mystery evolution is after a decisive loss instead of Ash walking away with another quasi clean sweep where he technically doesn't loss a Pokemon to the opponent, but I didn't really care either way if he won or not since I'm not all that invested in these battles to begin with but it probably would've been a better outcome to cause some tension.

Nanu is next (probably not for a long time) and if he doesn't give Ash some kind of rude awakening that'll be disappointing
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
Animation was also terrible for the most part, I guess they gotta make some compromises for the over the top Z-move sequences and more well animated comedic episodes, but it's still disheartening to see when major battles like this are much less frequent in SM.
I strongly disagree. The animation wasn't terrible at all. It may not have been as flashy as the battle animation in previous series, but it was so fluid that it didn't need to be flashy. Additionally, there wasn't a lot of "stillness," for the most part; most of the time, there was something moving on screen (even if it was just Probopass's detachable noses). There were also noticeably fewer stock animations, at least for the Pokémon's moves, which I can definitely appreciate.

(And kudos to the animators who animated the final part of the battle--specifically, Rockruff's final Rock Throw and Lycanroc falling to the ground. There was quite a bit going on in that animation sequence. The animators could have just drawn Lycanroc falling straight down, but instead, we get this spinning camera and Lycanroc practically twirling to the ground.)

Also I definitely think Ash should've lost. Defeating your own teammate and then finishing on your own just defeats the whole purpose of a double battle. Like, yeah I love the interaction between Ash and Rockruff, but I think we could've had that and still end on a loss. The episode could've still ended on a positive note where despite Rockruff screwing up Ash forgave it and fought together with it till the bitter end, and promised they would win next time, or something. I mean I partly say that cause I just didn't find the overall match that good and hoped that they were saving up for the REAL deal but nope guess this is it.
This I do agree with, and this is my one major gripe with this episode. I really do think Rockruff's aggression and impulsiveness should have cost Ash this battle, especially since that aggression and impulsiveness caused it to take out its own teammate. We still could've had that interaction between Ash and Rockruff, with Ash motivating Rockruff, regardless of the outcome of the battle. In fact, Ash forgiving Rockruff might have had more meaning if Rockruff had cost him the match, because it would have shown how big a heart the boy has.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
They really gotta find some more interesting ways for Ash's opponents to use their Z moves cause so far they've been pretty bad, like Hala I found acceptable for a first one but Olivia's was just a waste, you can't just dodge something that big and not even take damage from a shock wave or something. It would've been much better if after witnessing Gladion's Continental Crush the training leading up to this battle was Ash trying to figure out a proper counter measure against it. "Dodge" is not good enough lol.

I thought using rowlet's speed to dodge was a pretty good idea by Ash, and I can't exactly see someone simply blast a giant rock out of the sky. heck if anything Gladion could be held responsible for Olivia losing since he revealed her trump card to Ash, if Ash had never seen it, he probably would've freaked out and not known what to do.

to be honest i'm glad it didn't come down to Z-moves deciding the outcome, that was the one thing I didn't like about Ash vs Hala.
 

Shneak

this is a Nessa x Sonia stan account ✨
I'm so desperate for a good battle that this delivered, I guess. It did last for the majority of the episode. But I still don't think Ash is earning these wins against evolved Pokemon while he has a party of practically untrained and unevolved Pokemon.
 

Grey Wind

Well-Known Member
I thought the first half of the battle was pretty slow and underwhelming, but it picked up once the Z-moves came out. I loved what they did with Rockruff. It knocking out Rowlet wasn't something that I'd considered, but it worked perfectly within the arc and was an interesting way to even up the battle. I do agree that Ash should've lost, though. The way he's been practically sweeping the Kahunas is weird (they're yet to knock out one of his Pokemon, lol), and a rematch with Olivia once Rockruff evolved would've worked better IMO.
 

Rohanator

Well-Known Member
I strongly disagree. The animation wasn't terrible at all. It may not have been as flashy as the battle animation in previous series, but it was so fluid that it didn't need to be flashy. Additionally, there wasn't a lot of "stillness," for the most part; most of the time, there was something moving on screen (even if it was just Probopass's detachable noses). There were also noticeably fewer stock animations, at least for the Pokémon's moves, which I can definitely appreciate.

(And kudos to the animators who animated the final part of the battle--specifically, Rockruff's final Rock Throw and Lycanroc falling to the ground. There was quite a bit going on in that animation sequence. The animators could have just drawn Lycanroc falling straight down, but instead, we get this spinning camera and Lycanroc practically twirling to the ground.)
It's cool if you liked it but we'll just have to disagree on that cause aside from the Z-move scenes and Rockruff KO'ing Lycanroc I thought the fight was incredibly stiff for the most part. Like, it could've used a lot more frames. And there weren't really any interesting camera angles for moves etc, like both times when Rowlet flew above Probopass and used Leafage on it, (after Stealth Rock was set up, and after the commercial break when the Gym theme played), it was so slow and plain looking.

At least there WAS movement going on instead of stock footage, I'll give them that. Just nothing impressive or interesting aside from the big sakuga moments.

I thought using rowlet's speed to dodge was a pretty good idea by Ash, and I can't exactly see someone simply blast a giant rock out of the sky. heck if anything Gladion could be held responsible for Olivia losing since he revealed her trump card to Ash, if Ash had never seen it, he probably would've freaked out and not known what to do.

to be honest i'm glad it didn't come down to Z-moves deciding the outcome, that was the one thing I didn't like about Ash vs Hala.
I'll admit that Continental Crush in particular is a difficult one to get around, you indeed can't just deflect it away and visually it's so devastating that taking a direct hit and surviving would be pretty hard to swallow.

But I'm sure they could've come up with SOMETHING more interesting. I'd be willing to suspend my disbelief for something like, I dunno Rowlet drilling through it with a spinning Peck etc lol. Or make the dodge more unique, use Rowlet's leaf concealment ninja skills to disappear.
 
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doofinc

Elite Four
I thought using rowlet's speed to dodge was a pretty good idea by Ash, and I can't exactly see someone simply blast a giant rock out of the sky. heck if anything Gladion could be held responsible for Olivia losing since he revealed her trump card to Ash, if Ash had never seen it, he probably would've freaked out and not known what to do.

to be honest i'm glad it didn't come down to Z-moves deciding the outcome, that was the one thing I didn't like about Ash vs Hala.

My problem with that strategy is that it's the same thing as just saying DODGE1!!1!1 and it working cuz it's the anime. It severely nerfs the z-move since it can just be dodged. Obviously they can't just take it head on, but they could have certainly made it more creative as opposed to just DODGE IT. Maybe something like spamming Leafage and Rock throw to make a small bunker which could defend them a bit though they still get damaged. Maybe even a deus ex machina Dig learn and just dig under since that rock clearly didn't destroy any terrain even with that big boulder. Or just the Continental Crush vs. Bloom Doom clash. Anything than just dodging it.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
It's cool if you liked it but we'll just have to disagree on that cause aside from the Z-move scenes and Rockruff KO'ing Lycanroc I thought the fight was incredibly stiff for the most part. Like, it could've used a lot more frames. And there weren't really any interesting camera angles for moves etc, like both times when Rowlet flew above Probopass and used Leafage on it, (after Stealth Rock was set up, and after the commercial break when the Gym theme played), it was so slow and plain looking.

At least there WAS movement going on instead of stock footage, I'll give them that. Just nothing impressive or interesting aside from the big sakuga moments.
IMHO, interesting/dynamic camera angles are not really necessary when the animation is fluid and lacks stiffness that needs to be "concealed" with flashiness. But I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

My problem with that strategy is that it's the same thing as just saying DODGE1!!1!1 and it working cuz it's the anime. It severely nerfs the z-move since it can just be dodged. Obviously they can't just take it head on, but they could have certainly made it more creative as opposed to just DODGE IT. Maybe something like spamming Leafage and Rock throw to make a small bunker which could defend them a bit though they still get damaged. Maybe even a deus ex machina Dig learn and just dig under since that rock clearly didn't destroy any terrain even with that big boulder. Or just the Continental Crush vs. Bloom Doom clash. Anything than just dodging it.
But Ash's strategy involved more than just dodging in this case. He perfectly timed the dodge so that not only would Rowlet (and its load Rockruff) avoid getting Continental Crushed, but the boulder would also destroy the Stealth Rocks. Kiawe actually commented on how that was Ash's plan.
 
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Rohanator

Well-Known Member
IMHO, interesting/dynamic camera angles are not really necessary when the animation is fluid and lacks stiffness that needs to be "concealed" with flashiness. But I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
But it WAS stiff, imo at least. I mentioned the camera angles thing afterwards cause yeah it's less important overall, but could've saved things.
 
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