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Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire: Expectations & Desires? [Not a speculation thread]

Discussion in 'Pokémon Generation VI Discussion' started by Kreis, May 7, 2014.

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  1. Akashin

    Akashin Well-Known Member

    If they were to hypothetically do so, it would stand to reason that it would be exactly what you called it: a remake. Changes here and there to modernize it, but otherwise exactly what we already got. Just as ORAS were.

    That said, I hope you can live without it, because this definitely isn't something to have any sort of hope of seeing happen.
     
  2. Bolt the Cat

    Bolt the Cat Bringing the Thunder

    At the very least they should look into dex expansions. The older regional dexes are terrible, and it shows in some of the gym/Elite 4 rosters, and the distribution.

    I do think there's a lot more they could do for older regions though, I mean places like Kanto and Johto are pretty empty in terms of graphics/area design, extra features, and storyline and there's a lot that they need to improve for them to be truly modernized.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  3. DasManiac

    DasManiac Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't say any of what I said is odd. Game Freak doesn't understand remakes and shouldn't make any more. Remakes are supposed to be an improvement of an old thing. So far Game Freak hasn't done that. They've strictly adhered to the originals and have made no attempt at improving upon the originals. OR/AS suffers from the same problems FRLG and HGSS did. Too much nostalgia, archaic region design, horrible Pokedex, and a poor story. Game Freak insists that remakes should remain as close to the originals as possible but that makes a remake pointless. A remake should take the original, do something different, and make it better. They've had three chances now and have failed each time. I expected they would finally learn with OR/AS but they didn't.

    If they want to do remakes, then they should be substantially different from the originals. Kanto or Sinnoh remakes should be completely different from the originals. They should change up the region, add new gym leaders, and have an entirely new plot. That's what a remake should be. OR/AS is essentially the same game I played eleven or twelve years ago.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
  4. Bolt the Cat

    Bolt the Cat Bringing the Thunder

    There's modernizing a region and then there's just changing things up for the sake of changing things up. They don't really need new gym leaders and plot lines unless the originals don't work very well. In Kanto that's a problem, Sinnoh not so much. I don't think Sinnoh needs much more than to keep Platinum's Dex and maybe add a few new Pokemon (the Sinnoh Dex could use more Dragons for instance), Kanto needs a ton of expansion and detail.

    As for Hoenn, it sits somewhere in between, the region has plenty of detail and variety, it has a decent groundwork for a plot, the only things it was missing was a balanced regional dex and a solid post game. They didn't bother with the former and only half-fixed the latter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
  5. DasManiac

    DasManiac Well-Known Member

    Kanto needs a new plot. No more Team Rocket or fighting rival Blue/Green. A new starting town is also needed. As for Hoenn, I don't think it works in 3D at all. It was designed for the GBA and it looks every bit it's age.
     
  6. Bolt the Cat

    Bolt the Cat Bringing the Thunder

    It doesn't really need a new plot when there was no real plot to begin with. Just expand on what they have and give them more complex motivation and a more complex plan than "Take over random areas for no reason".

    Aside from the 4 directional movement and the open water routes (which is more of a design direction than a system limitation) I don't see it.
     
  7. Akashin

    Akashin Well-Known Member

    I'm becoming increasingly sure that what you're wanting is a sequel or otherwise totally new game in a familiar (but reimagined) setting. Which is all well and fine (I can't say I'm adverse to the idea), but that's not what a remake is.

    FRLG, HGSS and ORAS are by definition remakes, despite your claim otherwise, by the way. Whether or not they're good ones is subjective, and I can't be bothered to get into a debate about that right now.
     
  8. Emperor Empoleon

    Emperor Empoleon Honor of Kalos

    Huh. Well now...

    I'm enjoying OR on its own far more than I anticipated, so I can live without Frontier, but this still comes off as weird. I understand know what he's saying about getting frustrated with these types of places, but I've also felt that the last few generations have already taken some steps to make things easier. Which is part of reason why I was looking forward to seeing it remade with the new mechanics...

    - Sinnoh's Battle Frontier had generally smaller streak requirements, and in my opinion, more accessible rules for the new facilities. Even the returning Battle Factory was edited a bit so that you would have a better idea of what your opponent was using. (In the lower difficulty they outright tell you the team)
    - Battle Subway in Gen 5 introduced the "Super" lines to separate the stronger trainers from the weaker ones. A difficulty setting, essentially. This also made it so you wouldn't have to start from the absolute bottom of the barrel if you lost your streak.
    - And starting with the Battle Maison, we can interrupt games, go at our own pace, and get BP for every match.

    I don't even need to mention how preparation for all of this has become more efficient with the 6th Generation.

    Like, its already a-lot less demanding than before from where I'm standing, and I mostly like what they've done. The only time it really becomes frustrating is during outright hax. And that is still present...I guess I'm just wondering why not touch that up some more, as they've already done with other parts of the Battle Facilities. If nothing else, I think it would've been appreciated as a memorable feature from the past games.

    Ehhh..C'est la vie I guess...? Though I do hope this doesn't spell the end for other special facilities sprouting up, like how they made PWT alongside the Subway, Black Tower, etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
  9. BCVM22

    BCVM22 Well-Known Member

    Wow. I guess we've found the problem. That's not what one would or should logically expect from a "remake" of something at all.
     
  10. Creyk

    Creyk Well-Known Member

    I agree with the posters above.
    If they decide to re-make remakes at some point, it would be better if they were sequels or prequels, a game played in the same region, but with different characters, some geographical differences and modified pokemon too. I'm really tired of the Kanto region by now and wouldn't want to revisit it. Luckily those "remakes" are probably not happening anyway.
    For Sinnoh I think it would work, the game was really solid and I played it a lot and it was a long time ago, and it will be years until the next remake should come anyway
     
  11. hydrosharp_98

    hydrosharp_98 27/02/96

    That is an excellent point. In total honesty, the most plot worthy part of Kanto is Mewtwo and the Pokémon Mansion. It wasn't until Gen III where it seemed like GF realised "hey guys...we need to have more of a direction with these games", hence such a strong emphasis on Legendary Pokémon (which was OTT in Gen IV but added a required series of backbone legends and myths for the Pokémon world) ; Gen I and Gen II, apart from Suicine in Crystal and Ho-Oh or Lugia needing to be seen, lacked a real emotion behind it's plot, embodied by the throwing in of legendaries instead of a strong plot implementation.

    Gen I had no real direction, just stop the evil team, get your 8 badges and become Champion. I suppose catching every Pokémon was an aim, albeit a difficult one. As for random locations...maybe they weren't. I saw something the other day that points to the fact that Giovanni may have been trying to capture or stop Mewtwo : he acquires the Silph Scope to capture Ghost Pokémon (one of few types Psychic was weak to), & when we stop him from doing that he attempts to get the Master Ball to get Mewtwo, but again we stop him. That in itself is already a more interesting plot when explained than the one we feel we get.
    EDIT: after watching Origins I feel like perhaps that was supposed to fill us in on what happened in Kanto, in a Gen VI universe plot anyhow. It seemed to be so much better than the games plot wise...despite being based on them, characters just seemed to actually have character.

    I don't think GF would deter from the formula of recreating games with more of a plot backstory (like improvements in Hoenn, the Delta Episode and a more detailed goal for Magma/Aqua, along with secrets like Azoth & the depressing story of Professor Cozmo), but XY felt shallow to me (Ruby was the first game I remember playing so I don't want to be biased towards ORAS). Gen IV implemented direction without water (yes, Hoenn, I'm looking at you), an interesting villainous team in Galactic (minus the stupid outfits, Cyrus was very well designed plot wise and image wise) and seemingly never ending amounts of legendaries that were required to fill in a lot of the questions in the Pokémon world. Gen V by hundreds upon hundreds of miles had the most depth of any Generation we've ever had, and perhaps we just expected that depth to be built upon in Gen VI.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
  12. BurningWhiteKyurem

    BurningWhiteKyurem Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure how Team Galactic is remotely close to interesting. Cyrus is the same old boring villain archetypal figure in which he wants to destroy and recreate the universe with no emotions. We don't even know how Cyrus arrived at that conclusion, and I think a tragic backstory, or at the very least, expansion into his backstory would help drive that point home more strongly. That being said, Cyrus's and Team Galactic's (by default) end goal makes no sense. Not to mention, their grunts are incompetent morons who were in the shadows in regards to Cyrus not telling them what he was really after, so there's no real synergy between the team and the leaders. The more interesting way to drive that point (and I don't mean to say this to offend anyone), would be to make Team Galactic's grunts similar to Germany's Third Reich, in which some of the Nazis blindly followed Hitler's ambitions and conducted experiments/acts without knowing how evil these acts really were.

    Then again, if Sinnoh gets a remake, I'd love to see Galactic get revamped.
     
  13. hydrosharp_98

    hydrosharp_98 27/02/96

    http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Cyrus
    I don't know, I think there's quite a bit there to work with in terms of backstory. It also explains how he came to that conclusion. Cyrus didn't want to destroy and recreate anything (if he did, I'm sure he would have tried to capture Arceus), he wanted to be the ruler of his own space and time. He's a villainous Cozmo if you ask me (considering they both were neglected by their parents). At the time DPPt was released, I think it was by far more developed in plot than, say, RBG/GSC,in terms of direction, and at least it had some back story for the leader as opposed to Aqua/Magma (who have been added to in ORAS) at the time. I think it would be difficult to create a worthy team plot wise for Sinnoh anyways, seeing as it is the back story of the Pokémon world. Maybe a clash in ideals between a new world of science (Galactic) and a small religious cult praising Arceus as the Original One, etc, would have been more interesting in every aspect. I'm not saying they'd be a team, of sorts, but just a front to confront the revevlations of the modern era (in a way in which Black City and White Forest oppose eachother)
     
  14. Excitable Boy

    Excitable Boy is a metaphor

    tbh I'd rather they just take a more reductive, minimalist view of plot and atmosphere and try to keep the game focused around the RPG

    but I guess if that's an option, I'll vainly wish they can do it well instead of poorly
     
  15. Endolise

    Endolise TengenToppaBoogaloo

    That... makes no sense. For one thing, at least in the original games, the only Ghost-type line was part Poison-type, which Mewtwo slaughtered. (And was Team Rocket actually after the Silph Scope? It's been a while since I've played in Kanto, but I don't recall that being said.) And second, why bother trying to catch something that Mewtwo (isn't actually) weak against if you're going to have the Master Ball anyway? You wouldn't need to weaken it; the Master Ball is a guaranteed catch.

    But he did have a tragic backstory. You learn about it from his grandfather in the Battle Zone region area.

    Well, the majority of Team Galactic either didn't even know what the end goal was, or believed it to be something that would benefit them, but they were a cult anyway.

    Cyrus believed that emotions were the source of strife and suffering (and, is he wrong?), and sought to remove those things from existence. The myths of Sinnoh claim that spirit is integrally linked to time and space, and so by using Dialga and Palkia, he can break down the existing spacetime and replace it with one of his own design.

    But that was like... the whole point? Cyrus was only using his minions and followers as a means to an end; he didn't actually care about them, and intentionally hired idiots because they would do as they were told to do and wouldn't ask questions.

    "Now, all will end. And everything will begin."

    "With the power I wield, I will create an entirely new world! The incomplete and ugly world we have now can disappear. I am resetting everything to zero. Nothing can remain."

    "Rather than repairing the world, you're going to destroy it for me! Do it. You inherit my legacy."

    Prrrrrrrrrretty sure destroying the existing world was indeed on his to-do list.

    Hardly anyone in Sinnoh, including Cynthia (who regularly studies mythology), even knew that Arceus was a concept, let alone as much as its actual name. Besides, Dialga and Palkia would do just fine for his plan. He wanted to destroy and then recreate the universe; the universe is the spacetime continuum. Dialga and Palkia can control time and space, respectively. The only difference with Arceus would be that it can control both, as opposed to just one. But in Platinum, he summons both dragons at the same time anyway, so it makes no difference.


    Anyway. Obviously, I'm a plot-oriented person, so eviscerating the games of their plots isn't something that I, personally, would jump for. It'd probably bore me, to be honest, but others are free to disagree. I am aware that the plot is not the priority, and I'm okay with that. In fact, as much as I like involved plots, I already don't expect a whole lot from the games' story content, which is probably why I tend to be more impressed when they go for things like the Looker Bureau and ORAS' storylines.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
  16. Excitable Boy

    Excitable Boy is a metaphor

    Giovanni drops it after you beat him in Rocket Hideout, which in turn is how you fight the mother Marowak (that TR killed) and get the Poke Flute
     
  17. Endolise

    Endolise TengenToppaBoogaloo

    Ahhh, okay, I remember that now. Well then between him and the Lift Key Guy, maybe he should decree that everyone in Team Rocket start keeping their important items on bungees.
     
  18. Bolt the Cat

    Bolt the Cat Bringing the Thunder

    Interesting duality, and I think it would fit Sinnoh very well. The problem is that religion is somewhat of a mature and controversial topic, so they might have to replace "religion" with a similar concept to make it more kid friendly.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
  19. Excitable Boy

    Excitable Boy is a metaphor

    I'm still waiting for Game Freak to remember how to do an evil team without involving major legendaries
     
  20. Endolise

    Endolise TengenToppaBoogaloo

    That would be nice, but since it's such a convenient segue to get you to face the cover mascot, I'm not surprised that they haven't moved away from it.

    It stands out particularly sorely in XY, where the fact that Xerneas/Yveltal are required to power the ultimate weapon isn't even mentioned until after the weapon is already online and ready to be fired, which is mere moments before you face Xerneas/Yveltal yourself. They felt really shoehorned in, there.
     
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