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One Last Battle with Ash! Serena's Choice!! (941)

noakai

Well-Known Member
So is Serena's ultimate goal still Showcases, or did she switch to the ambiguous "I want to make people happy"?

I want to know what Palermo said to her because she didn't decide Contests until she knew about them, so knowing what Palermo said about Contests might help figure out why she decided on that. They are similar, but maybe Serena had the battle with Ash and realized that they're capable of a lot more than they've been doing, she just needs to get the experience of using her Pokemon in more aggressive ways so she really understands what their moves can do and how they can be used. Contests can do that without her having to go out and battle randoms.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I want to know what Palermo said to her because she didn't decide Contests until she knew about them, so knowing what Palermo said about Contests might help figure out why she decided on that. They are similar, but maybe Serena had the battle with Ash and realized that they're capable of a lot more than they've been doing, she just needs to get the experience of using her Pokemon in more aggressive ways so she really understands what their moves can do and how they can be used. Contests can do that without her having to go out and battle randoms.

One can hope they can develop it a LITTLE more in the next two episodes with better Serena battles. A good Flare battle and a 'competent TR' face-off would help push Serena's skills a little and make up for her poor track record, I can see her just being sidelined or blandly curb stomping some jobbers though.
 

Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
There's something telling that the second of two designated Ash-ships was also put on hold, because the two people in the ship went their separate ways, with the girl deciding that the best way to advance her career was to do something previously considered only tangentially related to her goal, one of them goes to Hoenn, and the other is in a region where that person is rooted on the spot within that region.

If its decided that Lillie X Ash will be developed in Sun/Moon, I am convinced she will decide to go to Hoenn to study Ultra Beasts.
 
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DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Does anyone else see Jessie's showcase arc as more dynamic than Serena's?

Think about it, unlike Serena whose first showcase went off great until she tripped, Jessie and Pumpkaboo had a poorly received approach and were unpopular with everyone but James and Meowth, who pampered her narcissism and 'sore loser' tantrums. As the showcases progressed, Jessie became more professional in strategy and started doing well (especially after Pumpkaboo evolved into Gourgeist and shared her passion). By the Master Class she gets a good semi finalist position and accepts it gracefully. Here she contributes for the glitz but is far less interested in stealing Serena and Shauna's spotlight and gets tons of excited fanfare. Serena and Shauna are even happy she's there.

Seriously, if not for her actual wins (gaining two of her Princess Keys offscreen and the onscreen one being a bit of a fluke), Jessie's arc would have arguably been a far better one than Serena's.

It'd be nice if these last two episodes gave James and Meowth a turn in the limelight (the Xeroxic one could easily have James team up due to Inkay's vendetta with previous Malamar and his new found scientific niche, while Meowth could perhaps help translate Dedenne's upset in the final episode).
 
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Frozocrone

Miraculous!
Does anyone else see Jessie's showcase arc as more dynamic than Serena's?

Think about it, unlike Serena whose first showcase went off great until she tripped, Jessie and Pumpkaboo had a poorly received approach and were unpopular with everyone but James and Meowth, who pampered her narcissism and 'sore loser' tantrums. As the showcases progressed, Jessie became more professional in strategy and started doing well (especially after Pumpkaboo evolved into Gourgeist and shared her passion). By the Master Class she gets a good semi finalist position and accepts it gracefully. Here she contributes for the glitz but is far less interested in stealing Serena and Shauna's spotlight and gets tons of excited fanfare. Serena and Shauna are even happy she's there.

Seriously, if not for her actual wins (gaining two of her Princess Keys offscreen and the onscreen one being a bit of a fluke), Jessie's arc would have arguably been a far better one than Serena's.

It'd be nice if these last two episodes gave James and Meowth a turn in the limelight (the Xeroxic one could easily have James team up due to Inkay's vendetta with previous Malamar and his new found scientific niche, while Meowth could perhaps help translate Dedenne's upset in the final episode).

Jessie has probably been more committed to actually trying to win, it's a shame we never actually saw her legitimately win contests for being the best. Performances in general have been a very bland arc namely because we only really followed Serena's quest to get princess keys and she didn't exactly struggle (some she was practically handed the key). For everyone else we were just told that they got the keys (aside Shauna and Jessie's on screen win, which felt like they weren't earned because Serena's pokemon tripped). Should have been more fleshed out but what's done is done. Flashy but lacked substance would be the best way to describe it for me.

I don't know how Serena's going to handle contests because it's going to be off-screen but hopefully she learns the hard way (thinking back to Sinnoh where Jessie consistently used Wobbufett as a trampoline) that her standard Fire move and Swift routine ain't going to fly in what is essentially the beginner round of contests. Maybe she'll catch more Pokemon too to add variety. Gah it sucks because there is so much potential but we're not going to see it!

I'd like to see James and Meowth have their send off's in the final episodes. Hoping the Malamar from early XY make their return.
 
Jessie has probably been more committed to actually trying to win, it's a shame we never actually saw her legitimately win contests for being the best. Performances in general have been a very bland arc namely because we only really followed Serena's quest to get princess keys and she didn't exactly struggle (some she was practically handed the key). For everyone else we were just told that they got the keys (aside Shauna and Jessie's on screen win, which felt like they weren't earned because Serena's pokemon tripped). Should have been more fleshed out but what's done is done. Flashy but lacked substance would be the best way to describe it for me.

I don't know how Serena's going to handle contests because it's going to be off-screen but hopefully she learns the hard way (thinking back to Sinnoh where Jessie consistently used Wobbufett as a trampoline) that her standard Fire move and Swift routine ain't going to fly in what is essentially the beginner round of contests. Maybe she'll catch more Pokemon too to add variety. Gah it sucks because there is so much potential but we're not going to see it!

I'd like to see James and Meowth have their send off's in the final episodes. Hoping the Malamar from early XY make their return.

I think they gave her three empty slots for Mudkip, Skitty and Ralts tbh
 
So... Now that Serena's heading towards Hoenn, can we transfer her to our copies of Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire?

Impossible. We already have her as a miles better character in our XY games.
 
B-but I wanted to call off a battle against Steven...

Lol. Probs would happen tbh. Looking back at it Steven's only on-screen battle with a person on the good side was called off by Lysandre. I wonder why they don't wanna show us Steven fighting/winning against anyone other than TR, TF and the mega-rock.

I theorise it's because they don't want to reveal the true power of the Hoenn God until a later date.

For now though I am fine with him simply mopping the floor with evil dudes and Alain's face. But please, if he appears in future, give us a battle between him and a good guy that ends.

Or just give me him psychic-ing 500 more TF dudes onto the ceiling. That's entertaining.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
The XY era REALLY liked teasing us with half-battles. :p

It was like 'What were they saving it for?'
 
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KingMinun

Dawn/Sinnoh Fan!
So Serena is off to Hoenn? I hope that means we'll get a special with her in Hoenn meeting Dawn who has gone back to Hoenn to finish off her Hoenn journey.
That way it's promoting XY, and promoting ORAS being based in Hoenn, plus contest, and then foreshadowing DP remakes.
 

Daniel31

HopingGaryReturns
she had the most consistent growth, change, and well chracterized team out of the main cast but again, thats just me.
100% agree. Serena is underrated and stonger than people think imo. Seeing how she was when she left her home to what she has become now, has been cool to watch and I think people can actually relate to her in real life. I've already explained some of these reasons in the past and am not going through the list again, same as you. Her haircut scene was the turning point for me personally btw.

As for the episode, I thought it was good. Was cool to see Shauna and Serena put on a performance for the people and even better to see Jessie join in on it. Was a nice scene, just wish the writers would've not recycled material from past performances. I also liked seeing Ash not being so dense and realizing Serena was conflicted about something and helping her. I wish there would've been more of those moments where Serena and Ash interacted by themselves, not just because I like Amourshipping, but because those moments felt genuine. The battle...yeah it was cut short, which sucked, but I did enjoy it for what it was. Hearing Serena reject Palermo's offer was great and I was confident it was going to happen, but the Hoenn announcement and doing contests was shocking. Wasn't expecting it, but if it's like people are saying, that it's to help her with her goal (make people smile or Kalos Queen), I think that's good for her. Was a weird twist, but understandable for the time being. Oh yeah, seeing Shauna pull away Tierno by the ear was funny, good ole Brock moment right there.

Anyway, just have to wait and see what else is going to happen for the future of Serena, I really hope this isn't the end of her forever because I have enjoyed her character and she's one of the main reasons why I got back into watching the Anime again.
 

DankOverlord

Komodo Dragons Rule!
Does anyone else see Jessie's showcase arc as more dynamic than Serena's?

Think about it, unlike Serena whose first showcase went off great until she tripped, Jessie and Pumpkaboo had a poorly received approach and were unpopular with everyone but James and Meowth, who pampered her narcissism and 'sore loser' tantrums. As the showcases progressed, Jessie became more professional in strategy and started doing well (especially after Pumpkaboo evolved into Gourgeist and shared her passion). By the Master Class she gets a good semi finalist position and accepts it gracefully. Here she contributes for the glitz but is far less interested in stealing Serena and Shauna's spotlight and gets tons of excited fanfare. Serena and Shauna are even happy she's there.

Seriously, if not for her actual wins (gaining two of her Princess Keys offscreen and the onscreen one being a bit of a fluke), Jessie's arc would have arguably been a far better one than Serena's.

It'd be nice if these last two episodes gave James and Meowth a turn in the limelight (the Xeroxic one could easily have James team up due to Inkay's vendetta with previous Malamar and his new found scientific niche, while Meowth could perhaps help translate Dedenne's upset in the final episode).

I agree with this I actually felt bad that Jessie, being a more realistic competitor, had so little wins and ended losing to Serena the whole time when tripping wasn't involved.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
I agree with this I actually felt bad that Jessie, being a more realistic competitor, had so little wins and ended losing to Serena the whole time when tripping wasn't involved.

At the end of the day, she had almost as many wins as Serena, because she was able to get to the master class and that requires her to gather 3 keys. Actually, Jessie had exactly the same amount of wins as Serena if we don't take into account the Master Class (which, despite defeating Shauna and Jessie, Serena still lost to Aria). It's just a shame that we only got to see Jessie winning one of her keys, but i hardly believe they would've wanted to make another 2 episodes with her winning the showcases, especially with XY's tight schedule. You might argue saying they could've gone rid of some of the fillers, but most of XY fillers were actually important for some pokemon species or places from the game that didn't get a previous introduction or focus and also for some regular characters and even main characters to get some needed screentime. So i'm fine with they way this was handled.
 
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Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
For most time it was a decent episode. A bit sad that Sawyer's and Shauna's departure had to happen here rather than last episode. But considering how past rivals had been treated in the past, including Paul, I can't complain much because they were the rivals who got the most even after they were beaten by the main characters.

Now for Serena...

So, Serena started off like she was being set up to do contest, then we found out she wouldn't do contest but rather something else that's basically an inferior rip off of contests. And after speed running said not-contest goal, she is totally taking on contests so she can be better at the not-contest <_<

Really, this was one of the best series we've gotten but sometimes the illogical choices and bad writting/directing decisions screw it up so bad you can't help but think why you bother following it in the first place.

Man, when I think about all the opportunity they had with Serena becoming a coordinator... That could have happened in an episode promoting ORAS where May would show up. We'd get a callback to when May herself had found about contests and then see May's journey getting full circle with her doing for someone, something it has been done for her in the past. It could have been such a powerful arc. But enough fanfic-ing.

Anyway, I really wonder if the writers had a plan for Serena in the first place or they just include her character in the show with absolutely no clue what to do with her. That's the only way I can make sense out of the mess her arc end up being. At first, the plot "she doesn't quite know what she wants to do" seemed like a clever and organic way to build her character but end up being handled in a way that the writers were as lost as the character herself. Even the shipping bait subplot is now starting to look like they got desperate with trying to find a reason to put Serena on Ash's group and then resort for the shipping subplot.

Makes me feel really bad for Serena. Her character were filled with so much potential but she end up being treated as an afterthought.

On the bright side, I like that Palermo end up being a red herring of sorts. Well, if Ash can't have her, neither should the old woman lol
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
At the end of the day, she actually had almost as many wins as Serena, because she was able to get to the master class and that requires her to gather 3 keys. It's just a shame that we weren't able to see her winning the other two keys , but i hardly believe they would've wanted to make another 2 episodes with Jessie winning the keys.
Actually, she had exactly the same amount of wins as Serena if we don't take into account the Master Class (which, despite defeating her rivals, she still lost).

They could have done what DP did with the contests and had the odd TV spot or quick focus on the rivals winning their keys. Serena could have easily been shown watching her competition on TV during the many, MANY filler episodes.

I suppose it says something that Jessie might have actually won, or at least came in top three, had Sylveon not saved Serena from toppling. By that point, while the tripping excuse was cheap, it was starting to become recurrent enough to look like a real flaw and like she was gambling big flashy moves over stability in performance, especially since they had her called out over her injury from it. Jessie didn't have as popular approaches, but her team (rather surprisingly) could always manage the choreography perfectly.

Having over elaborate and flashy ideas and falling flat trying to execute them does fit poetically well as a flaw for Serena.
 
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Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
They could have done what DP did with the contests and had the odd TV spot or quick focus on the rivals winning their keys. Serena could have easily been shown watching her competition on TV during the many, MANY filler episodes.

I suppose it says something that Jessie might have actually won, or at least came in second, had Sylveon not saved Serena from toppling. By that point, while the tripping excuse was cheap, it was starting to become recurrent enough to look like a real flaw and like she was gambling big flashy moves over stability in performance, especially since they had her called out over her injury from it.

Having over elaborate and flashy ideas and falling flat trying to execute them does fit poetically well as a flaw for Serena.

That comes down to whether you think a two seconds appearence makes any difference or not.
IMO, it doesn't. If you're not going to show how that character won the showcase and you're just going to add a scene showing that she won, then it's not adding anything to the character development and it feels weird to have included that when the episode has nothing to do with it.
XY didn't have as many fillers as some people here like to say it had and, like i said, most of these fillers were actually important for some pokemon species or places from the game that didn't get a previous introduction or focus and also for some regular characters and even main characters to get some needed screentime.
I don't see what is wrong with Serena losing because someone tripped. If you are going to make a goal that involves dancing and acrobatics, then tripping is obviously going to play a huge part. You might argue saying Serena didn't play any part on how she lost the performances, but you would be ignoring that she said herself that the reason why Fennekin tripped was because she didn't cut the ribbon well-enough and that made Fennekin trip and also that even though Eevee tripped, a performer, just like a battler, has to train the pokemon until they are able to win and if a pokemon loses, it's both on the trainer and the pokemon, because they are a team, one and the same.
 
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DatsRight

Well-Known Member
That comes down to whether you think a two seconds appearence makes any difference or not.
IMO, it doesn't. If you're not going to show how that character won the showcase and you're just going to add a scene showing that she won, then it's not adding anything to the character development and it feels weird to have included that when the episode has nothing to do with it.
XY didn't have as many fillers as some people here like to say it had and, like i said, most of these fillers were important were actually important for some pokemon species or places from the game that didn't get a previous introduction or focus and also for some regular characters and even main characters to get some needed screentime. So i'm fine with they way this was handled.

Most of the performances themselves were only about 30 seconds long though. About a minute of showcase footage could have easily been shoved into an episode over some padding. Hell they could have replaced a couple of TR filler curb stomps with Jessie's two showcase wins.

I don't see what is wrong with Serena losing because she tripped. If you are going to make a goal that involves dancing and acrobatics, then tripping is obviously going to play a huge part of it. You might argue saying Serena didn't play any part on how she lost the performances, but you would be ignoring that she said herself that the reason why Fennekin tripped was because she didn't cut the ribbon well-enough and that made Fennekin trip and also that even though Eevee tripped, a performer, just like a battler, has to train the pokemon until they are able to win and if a pokemon loses, it's both on the trainer and the performer, because they are a team.

I think it's more it played on the fact that Serena never really had to alter her methods, just make sure her first one always worked. Dawn did well looking like an underdog in DP contests because she tried her best and still didn't win sometimes (sometimes she didn't even get past the opening round). She had SOME moments acts spiralled out of control (eg. Mamoswine disobeying her) but it wasn't her one Achilles heel the other performers only stood a chance of defeating her by. Sometimes people genuinely outperformed her and had a better act put together, thus she had to adapt.
 
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